290 réponses à ce sujet

[l DryIce l]

dreman9999 wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Aedolon wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

You can already do this on Veteran and below. If my idea was implemented, it would still be foolish to take on all-biotic squad on hardcore/insanity

"Still"? It's far from foolish right now to take an all-biotic squad on Insanity.

That guy never seen what happen whan you bring an Adept, Jack and Samara with reave  together as a squad, has he?

It depends on what enemies you're facing. Against a bunch of synthestics with heavy shielding, I'd rather not have 2 other biotics who can do similar things. It's much more effecient to have Tali, Legion, or someone with good tech powers against synthetics. 

I'd rather not resort to having to singularity trap, then warp bomb EVERY armored enemy I come into contact with. Pull, even a pull that was reduced in effectiveness due to armor, could be very useful against a charging Krogan. 

You kidding right. It does not matter what the protection is. A full biotic team will trash them. You sigularity with pin tthen in place. Jack shock wave will stop them from moving and know the out of cover. Samara is the fastest cooldownsquad mate so you can quickly use her  throw and pull to get people out of cover being that they are spamable, and her reave cuts defance.
If you use fast cooling down powers, your enemies never have  a chance to fight back no mater what the defence.

But that's the thing. I don't need to use Samara's pull and throw, because I have pull and throw. If I have Tali, I have AI hacking, or if I take Garrus I'll have overload. How can you protection doesn't matter when Warp does nothing against shields compared to overload. 

I did say Samara is the fastest Squad mate. I know Adepts have have pull and throw, It's even faster on a Shep Adept and strong.  A Sheps throw with no bonuses takes 2 second to cooldown, with the adepts passives and the cooldown bonus Amp you get on illium, that cuts the cooldown to 1.07 seconds. That mean you canuse one throw per second. And with 3 heavy throws you can take of the weaks enemies protection, that a protection gone in 3 second. Now you can alway use overload but overloed does not stop you enemy from moving. You can overload someone and try to lift them but miss because they go into cover. Biotics stun enemies, a throw keeps a protected enemy in place. You can use Samara throw or pull to knock some one out of cover to be hit by a singulrity, and use your heavy throw to take of the shields. While you can use overload on an enemy, you have to wait for them to come out of cover to try to hit them with singularity, any one can tell you how that works out. And sure you can use pull to get them but what the tactic with enemies with more powerful protection?
That awnser would be Samars throw, or Jack's pull and your singularity. Overload would only half an advance eneimes shields, pull would just get them out of cover, and with out pull or throw or anystunning power in the mix....singularity can miss.

 Oh my. I don't know what you just said, but you win. 

[Bozorgmehr]

l DryIce l wrote...

In the Shockwave Adept video (posted above), I doubt on all-biotic squad would have been more effective. Garrus was great at stripping shields and allowing the other 2 biotics to wreck havoc. It really depends on the enemies you're facing. 

I didn't have much choice, Korlus is pre Horizon so I could only use Mir, Jacob, Kasumi, Zaeed or Mordin instead. It all comes down to team-work; defenses have to be stripped and enemies have to be killed - it doesn't matter if you use weapons, Shep's (bonus) power, or squadmates to strip defenses as long as you've got that part covered, you'll be fine.

The Geth Plasma Shotgun (GPS) is particularly effective against defenses; using a Jack & Samara/Morinth squad is great:

Shep shoots GPS > squadmate 1 Pulls > Shep Throws enemy of the map and shoots GPS > squadmate 2 Pulls > Shep Throws etc (2 kills every 4-5 seconds). Very effective and great to watch.

[Eurhetemec]

Aedolon wrote...

You did notice that he's handicapping himself and not shooting, right? The SMG is adept's number 1 method of stripping protections, and it excels at it.

Yes and I don't think it would have made a whole lot of difference except to the bits where he's having to melee.

He only really came close to dying against the husks. They are a cakewalk once you're allowed to use guns. Predator rapes their armor.

I've not watched that far. He got the "red veins of death" a few times in the first video.

Oh, and now an all-biotic squad is an "absolutely optimized squadmate setup"? Hey, that's what we've been trying to say!

Hahaha What I mean is that for a Biotic explosion setup that's definately an optimized squad, and he's using the armour with the biggest power damage bonus possible (and no doubt has maxed out his biotic damage upgrades etc.). I'm just saying that I think Biotics could stand some serious tweaking in ME3, to make them a little better-rounded, and less "hard mode" (in harder difficulties).

[Seeker Sparrow]

Aedolon wrote...

But that's exactly the reason why I said "for that playstyle, singularity and warp are the most useful powers".

I disagree slightly, you see for me Singularity and Warp aren't the Adepts' bread 'n butter powers, all of the Adept's powers and a bonus power (Stasis or Barrier work for me) are core to the class and also why it's one of my favourite.

[l DryIce l]

Sparrow Hawke wrote...

Aedolon wrote...

But that's exactly the reason why I said "for that playstyle, singularity and warp are the most useful powers".

I disagree slightly, you see for me Singularity and Warp aren't the Adepts' bread 'n butter powers, all of the Adept's powers and a bonus power (Stasis or Barrier work for me) are core to the class and also why it's one of my favourite.

I think he was specifically talking about that particular mission on that difficulty, which is probably true since you're facing a bunch of enemies with protections. 

[dreman9999]

l DryIce l wrote...

Aedolon wrote...

Eurhetemec wrote...

That's pretty cool though it's worth noting that he is a totally awesome player with an absolutely optimized gear/squadmate setup and he is taking easily twice as long to get through that section as (looking at the first bit) and nearly dying way more often to boot, than me, a pretty mediocre player (on Insanity, as an Infiltrator), so I'm not at all convinced this shows Biotics are "balanced", just "not unplayable".

You did notice that he's handicapping himself and not shooting, right? The SMG is adept's number 1 method of stripping protections, and it excels at it.

He only really came close to dying against the husks. They are a cakewalk once you're allowed to use guns. Predator rapes their armor.

Oh, and now an all-biotic squad is an "absolutely optimized squadmate setup"? Hey, that's what we've been trying to say!

And while I agree that Average Gatsby is an awesome player (I have learned a lot from him), I'm pretty sure he'd be first to admit he made some pretty big mistakes in there, too.

In the Shockwave Adept video (posted above), I doubt on all-biotic squad would have been more effective. Garrus was great at stripping shields and allowing the other 2 biotics to wreck havoc. It really depends on the enemies you're facing. 

You can trade Garrus for Mirada and Still have a full biotic squad you know...

[WidowMaker9394]

What's the difference between shields and biotic barriers? The games doesn't suggest anything beyond the possibility that the barriers are sustained by the user him/herself.

[dreman9999]

l DryIce l wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Aedolon wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

You can already do this on Veteran and below. If my idea was implemented, it would still be foolish to take on all-biotic squad on hardcore/insanity

"Still"? It's far from foolish right now to take an all-biotic squad on Insanity.

That guy never seen what happen whan you bring an Adept, Jack and Samara with reave  together as a squad, has he?

It depends on what enemies you're facing. Against a bunch of synthestics with heavy shielding, I'd rather not have 2 other biotics who can do similar things. It's much more effecient to have Tali, Legion, or someone with good tech powers against synthetics. 

I'd rather not resort to having to singularity trap, then warp bomb EVERY armored enemy I come into contact with. Pull, even a pull that was reduced in effectiveness due to armor, could be very useful against a charging Krogan. 

You kidding right. It does not matter what the protection is. A full biotic team will trash them. You sigularity with pin tthen in place. Jack shock wave will stop them from moving and know the out of cover. Samara is the fastest cooldownsquad mate so you can quickly use her  throw and pull to get people out of cover being that they are spamable, and her reave cuts defance.
If you use fast cooling down powers, your enemies never have  a chance to fight back no mater what the defence.

But that's the thing. I don't need to use Samara's pull and throw, because I have pull and throw. If I have Tali, I have AI hacking, or if I take Garrus I'll have overload. How can you protection doesn't matter when Warp does nothing against shields compared to overload. 

I did say Samara is the fastest Squad mate. I know Adepts have have pull and throw, It's even faster on a Shep Adept and strong.  A Sheps throw with no bonuses takes 2 second to cooldown, with the adepts passives and the cooldown bonus Amp you get on illium, that cuts the cooldown to 1.07 seconds. That mean you canuse one throw per second. And with 3 heavy throws you can take of the weaks enemies protection, that a protection gone in 3 second. Now you can alway use overload but overloed does not stop you enemy from moving. You can overload someone and try to lift them but miss because they go into cover. Biotics stun enemies, a throw keeps a protected enemy in place. You can use Samara throw or pull to knock some one out of cover to be hit by a singulrity, and use your heavy throw to take of the shields. While you can use overload on an enemy, you have to wait for them to come out of cover to try to hit them with singularity, any one can tell you how that works out. And sure you can use pull to get them but what the tactic with enemies with more powerful protection?
That awnser would be Samars throw, or Jack's pull and your singularity. Overload would only half an advance eneimes shields, pull would just get them out of cover, and with out pull or throw or anystunning power in the mix....singularity can miss.

 Oh my. I don't know what you just said, but you win. 

I simplify it. Biotic stun. Adept get cooldown bonuses with amps and passives abilities. Throw has 2 secaond cooldown. With the passive and amp cooldown bonuses that  throw ever second.And with Heavy throw with a normal enemy to it takes 3 throw to take off protection. That mean, I can go to a normal enemies and just use throw on them till their protection is gone and with a heavy throw that would take 3 seconds on insanity.

Throw has it's advantages being thae fastest direct damage power the Adept has.

[l DryIce l]

dreman9999 wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

Aedolon wrote...

Eurhetemec wrote...

That's pretty cool though it's worth noting that he is a totally awesome player with an absolutely optimized gear/squadmate setup and he is taking easily twice as long to get through that section as (looking at the first bit) and nearly dying way more often to boot, than me, a pretty mediocre player (on Insanity, as an Infiltrator), so I'm not at all convinced this shows Biotics are "balanced", just "not unplayable".

You did notice that he's handicapping himself and not shooting, right? The SMG is adept's number 1 method of stripping protections, and it excels at it.

He only really came close to dying against the husks. They are a cakewalk once you're allowed to use guns. Predator rapes their armor.

Oh, and now an all-biotic squad is an "absolutely optimized squadmate setup"? Hey, that's what we've been trying to say!

And while I agree that Average Gatsby is an awesome player (I have learned a lot from him), I'm pretty sure he'd be first to admit he made some pretty big mistakes in there, too.

In the Shockwave Adept video (posted above), I doubt on all-biotic squad would have been more effective. Garrus was great at stripping shields and allowing the other 2 biotics to wreck havoc. It really depends on the enemies you're facing. 

You can trade Garrus for Mirada and Still have a full biotic squad you know...

Ah yes, "Sentinels". The class that allegedly has an ability for every situation. We have dismissed that claim. 

[LemurFromTheId]

Sparrow Hawke wrote...

Aedolon wrote...

But that's exactly the reason why I said "for that playstyle, singularity and warp are the most useful powers".

I disagree slightly, you see for me Singularity and Warp aren't the Adepts' bread 'n butter powers, all of the Adept's powers and a bonus power (Stasis or Barrier work for me) are core to the class and also why it's one of my favourite.

Let's put it another way.

The way I play adept (and the way Average Gatsby plays in those videos) singularity and warp are both an absolute must and I choose them first. Technically I can live without pull and throw, but in practise I use them all the time and they increase my kill speed at least 50%.

My bonus power is usually energy drain (1 point), but I don't use it that much. There are times when serves it's purpose, though.

[LemurFromTheId]

lightsnow13 wrote...

Biotics are much more fun when playing insanity. More health = more opportunities to pull and throw.

That's actually a good point. On lower difficulties your squadmates often kill the pulled mook before you can throw in the warp.

[Seeker Sparrow]

Aedolon wrote...

Let's put it another way.

The way I play adept (and the way Average Gatsby plays in those videos) singularity and warp are both an absolute must and I choose them first. Technically I can live without pull and throw, but in practise I use them all the time and they increase my kill speed at least 50%.

My bonus power is usually energy drain (1 point), but I don't use it that much. There are times when serves it's purpose, though.

Fair enough, my point was that using all of the Adept's arsenal is a good way of getting the most out of the class.

For me that is.

[Bozorgmehr]

Aedolon wrote...

I love how you play adept. That's not my style (I'm quite close to Average Gatsby, while not as good), but I can't deny it's pretty d**n effective.

But that's exactly the reason why I said "for that playstyle, singularity and warp are the most useful powers".

Cheers

Singularity is the unique power and is always useful; Warp rocks on Collector missions, but is less useful - for the way I like to play - when you're up against shielded enemies.

BTW; if you're interested in more Adept vids, check my sig - you'll find dozens (including Gatsby's).

Eurhetemec wrote...

Hahaha  What I mean is that for a Biotic explosion setup that's definately an optimized squad, and he's using the armour with the biggest power damage bonus possible (and no doubt has maxed out his biotic damage upgrades etc.). I'm just saying that I think Biotics could stand some serious tweaking in ME3, to make them a little better-rounded, and less "hard mode" (in harder difficulties).

Power damage is almost irrelevant, when defense-stripping powers are strong enough to one-shot defenses of normal goons, you're good. Warp will insta-strip amor/barrier and also insta-(Warpbomb)-kill enemies - no matter how much extra power damage; you (almost) always need the same number of Warp(bombs) to strip/kill elites and bosses.

Stasis, the Mattock and GPS were not available at the time of that video; an Adept with Stasis and the Mattock/GPS will annihilate Collectors; a well-trained Adept will eat Infiltrators for breakfast on the Suicide Mission.

[LemurFromTheId]

dreman9999 wrote...

I simplify it. Biotic stun. Adept get cooldown bonuses with amps and passives abilities. Throw has 2 secaond cooldown. With the passive and amp cooldown bonuses that throw ever second.And with Heavy throw with a normal enemy to it takes 3 throw to take off protection. That mean, I can go to a normal enemies and just use throw on them till their protection is gone and with a heavy throw that would take 3 seconds on insanity.

Throw has it's advantages being thae fastest direct damage power the Adept has.

The last time I played throw had 3 second cooldown.

[Bozorgmehr]

lightsnow13 wrote...

Biotics are much more fun when playing insanity. More health = more opportunities to pull and throw.

I like this human, he understands

Aedolon wrote...

My bonus power is usually energy drain (1 point), but I don't use it that much. There are times when serves it's purpose, though.

I really recommend Stasis. Barrier is nice too. Dominate is also great if you want to have fun.

Energy Drain is awesome (though very much OP) on Geth missions (you cannot die - lol) but also biotic heresy.

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 22 juin 2011 - 06:29 .

[thetruefreemo]

I just hated the sound that throw made in ME2. It's easy for me to say "Well they probably designed shields and armor to block biotics."

[Aurellia]

I've beaten ME2 multiple times on insanity. I don't like the changes to Adept from ME1. it lets me do less of what I enjoy as an Adept, ie toss stuff around and makes me do more shooting and shield/armor stripping to get to the fun stuff. It is not especially hard and I am no ME2 god like Bozorgmehr.

What I hated was the loss of mobility. Now when I played Vanguard I had a lot more fun because I could run and gun. I'm happy to see that we'll be getting more of that in ME3.

Honestly I find the shield/armor stripping repetitive and boring, and no I'm not looking to be a biotic god. I love a good challenge but I also want variety. ME2 insanity gave me a boring and tedious challenge. Basically almost every encounter can be beaten using the same set of combos. For lame players doing Adept this can amount to setting behind a wall and slinging warp/overload until stripped and then use biotics for a cool finishing blow.

Thankfully husks mixes things up a bit:)

[The Twilight God]

Computer_God91 wrote...

 Seriously, I hate how armor or shields blocks out Biotics when honestly they shouldn't unless its a Biotic barrier. What do you guys think? Should they make Biotics actually function like they should?

I've laways been of the opinion that adept is about knocking people around. If you didn;t like it in ME1 and didn't like playing it don't play it. Now, in ME2, it's just a weak sentinel. It was a fun class. Overpowered? Yes, but it's a single player game. No one should care. If you don't like it play something else or gimp yourself. No one is forcing anyone to play a class to it's full potential. The point of a bitoic is to fling stuff around. It gave you a different experience versus all gunplay.

But if Bioware insist on balance...

I agree that armor should not prevent biotics. Armor should add weight to an opponent.

I don't think an armored enemy should take damage from a throw, but it should at least stagger them and knock them out of cover.

Pull may not yank them trhough the air put it should put them on their tippy toes and make them walk in slow motion as if they were in zero-g.

Singularity would be the same. It would root them in place so that they can't move. They can still fire at you, but the force of the singularity keeps them in place.


For shields, only minor difference.

Throw should slightly damage shields, which I believe is the case already.

Pull should not make the shield take more damage damage. So after a Pull the shields will still be at 100%, but when you fire on them they take 10% more damage. It would be nice to be able to use it in conjunction with overload to give it extra kick. Warp always seemed more effective than overload.

Singularity should slowly drain a shields (5% every 2 seconds) and prevent shield recharge.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 22 juin 2011 - 06:39 .

[LemurFromTheId]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Singularity is the unique power and is always useful; Warp rocks on Collector missions, but is less useful - for the way I like to play - when you're up against shielded enemies.

No arguments there.

Bozorgmehr wrote...

BTW; if you're interested in more Adept vids, check my sig - you'll find dozens (including Gatsby's).

I've seen most of them already. Great stuff.

Eurhetemec wrote...

Stasis, the Mattock and GPS were not available at the time of that video; an Adept with Stasis and the Mattock/GPS will annihilate Collectors; a well-trained Adept will eat Infiltrators for breakfast on the Suicide Mission. {smilie}

You know, those happen to be the three things I refuse to use, because they really are overpowered (in fact, I actually uninstalled the Firepower Pack long time ago). Mattock really makes the whole suicide mission trivial. It's point-and-click and the scions are gone.

[sp0ck 06]

The Twilight God wrote...

Computer_God91 wrote...

 Seriously, I hate how armor or shields blocks out Biotics when honestly they shouldn't unless its a Biotic barrier. What do you guys think? Should they make Biotics actually function like they should?

I've laways been of the opinion that adept is about knocking people around. If you didn;t like it in ME1 and didn't like playing it don't play it. Now, in ME2, it's just a weak sentinel. It was a fun class. Overpowered? Yes, but it's a single player game. No one should care. If you don't like it play something else or gimp yourself. No one is forcing anyone to play a class to it's full potential. The point of a bitoic is to fling stuff around. It gave you a different experience versus all gunplay.

But if Bioware insist on balance...

I agree that armor should not prevent biotics. Armor should add weight to an opponent.

I don't think an armored enemy should take damage from a throw, but it should at least stagger them and knock them out of cover.

Pull may not yank them trhough the air put it should put them on their tippy toes and make them walk in slow motion as if they were in zero-g.

Singularity would be the same. It would root them in place so that they can't move. They can still fire at you, but the force of the singularity keeps them in place.


For shields, only minor difference.

Throw should slightly damage shields, which I believe is the case already.

Pull should not make the shield take more damage damage. So after a Pull the shields will still be at 100%, but when you fire on them they take 10% more damage. It would be nice to be able to use it in conjunction with overload to give it extra kick. Warp always seemed more effective than overload.

Singularity should slowly drain a shields (5% every 2 seconds) and prevent shield recharge.

Ummm...almost everything you just listed is already present in the game?

[dreman9999]

Aedolon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

I simplify it. Biotic stun. Adept get cooldown bonuses with amps and passives abilities. Throw has 2 secaond cooldown. With the passive and amp cooldown bonuses that throw ever second.And with Heavy throw with a normal enemy to it takes 3 throw to take off protection. That mean, I can go to a normal enemies and just use throw on them till their protection is gone and with a heavy throw that would take 3 seconds on insanity.

Throw has it's advantages being thae fastest direct damage power the Adept has.

The last time I played throw had 3 second cooldown.

Wait....goes and check.Your right. But with the passive and the cooldown bonus..together 40% out the 3.00 second cooldown......Is 1.2 second....Meaning  3 throws every 3.60 sec.

[stonbw1]

Here's a question: would anyone prefer that adepts rarely use firearms? To me, it seems almost logical that their main (if not, ONLY) combat tool are the adept powers, with a firearm being a last resort. Now, that will never happen in ME3, but I agree that in ME2, I almost had to force myself to use the adept powers, since there was little point (exept for pushing people over ledges!!).

[dreman9999]

The Twilight God wrote...

Computer_God91 wrote...

 Seriously, I hate how armor or shields blocks out Biotics when honestly they shouldn't unless its a Biotic barrier. What do you guys think? Should they make Biotics actually function like they should?

I've laways been of the opinion that adept is about knocking people around. If you didn;t like it in ME1 and didn't like playing it don't play it. Now, in ME2, it's just a weak sentinel. It was a fun class. Overpowered? Yes, but it's a single player game. No one should care. If you don't like it play something else or gimp yourself. No one is forcing anyone to play a class to it's full potential. The point of a bitoic is to fling stuff around. It gave you a different experience versus all gunplay.

But if Bioware insist on balance...

I agree that armor should not prevent biotics. Armor should add weight to an opponent.

I don't think an armored enemy should take damage from a throw, but it should at least stagger them and knock them out of cover.

Pull may not yank them trhough the air put it should put them on their tippy toes and make them walk in slow motion as if they were in zero-g.

Singularity would be the same. It would root them in place so that they can't move. They can still fire at you, but the force of the singularity keeps them in place.


For shields, only minor difference.

Throw should slightly damage shields, which I believe is the case already.

Pull should not make the shield take more damage damage. So after a Pull the shields will still be at 100%, but when you fire on them they take 10% more damage. It would be nice to be able to use it in conjunction with overload to give it extra kick. Warp always seemed more effective than overload.

Singularity should slowly drain a shields (5% every 2 seconds) and prevent shield recharge.

Ha, I like you. You  understand that the the ME2 system just need to be added on to.
I made a topic about the same thing.http://social.biowar...1/index/7664534
But with alittle bit different ideas.

[dreman9999]

stonbw1 wrote...

Here's a question: would anyone prefer that adepts rarely use firearms? To me, it seems almost logical that their main (if not, ONLY) combat tool are the adept powers, with a firearm being a last resort. Now, that will never happen in ME3, but I agree that in ME2, I almost had to force myself to use the adept powers, since there was little point (exept for pushing people over ledges!!).

My question is why no one bothered to remember thatyou did more shooting as an adept in ME1 than ME2?