21 réponses à ce sujet

[General Malor]

The Alliance Military is based off of the joint efforts of the super powers of Earth joining together. That's cool. But what I'm wondering is why if this is based off of our actual militaries do see the Navy doing much of the lifting for American related forces. I've got no problem what so ever with the Navy, lots of my family has served with them, but I'm wondering why we see Marines and Navy personnel.

The US Air Force is tip of the spear in all things outer-space related in our modern military. So I'm wondering why we don't see more Air Force related ranks and personnel in the game.

I mean they could have gone with the Navy to avoid confusion with Stargate, but only maybe.

It could have been Colonel Shepard, instead of Commander Shepard. But in sci-fi there is already an established Colonel Shepard. Plus if could lead people to crying out in great mobs to recruit Ronon to your crew.

Anyway, would you all as gamers like to see more military branches in the Alliance Military? Or are you just fine and dandy with Marines running about everywhere?

It would also be nice to hear from a writer or somone as to why the Navy was chosen, instead of the Air Force.

[King Zeel]

My Shepard turned down spectre status and I like it that way.

I hope Ashley tries to pull rank. Sexy.

[Bogsnot1]

Check here for why;
http://tvtropes.org/.../Main/SpaceNavy

[Praetor Knight]

Very interesting question.



One possibility is that serving in a space ship is a kin to serving on a ship / submarine. Also, Air Forces focus more directly with fighters, interceptors and bombers, and similar squadrons exist with Air Craft Carriers.

So that could be one plausible reason why they created that association in the Alliance.


edit: ninja'd by tvtrope

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 22 juin 2011 - 06:28 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Personally I think Navy was chosen because you're dealing with ships with hundreds of crewmen, the operation of fighters and smaller craft from carriers would still be part of the Navy just as is the case with today's naval aviation.

It's possible an Air Force would still exist as branch dealing with local planetary defense.

I'm more curious about if there is an Systems Alliance Army and the difference between them and the Marine Corp.

[nitrog100]

Look at Star Trek. They were Navy based, and they were way back at the beginning. Running the risk of possibly drawing some super nerd (I consider myself to be an average nerd) rage, I'd say it all started way back then. Oh, and don't forget that SGC also used Marines...

[Bogsnot1]

nitrog100 wrote...

Look at Star Trek. They were Navy based, and they were way back at the beginning. Running the risk of possibly drawing some super nerd (I consider myself to be an average nerd) rage, I'd say it all started way back then. Oh, and don't forget that SGC also used Marines...

Close, but no cigar.
Star Trek (StarFleet) - 1966
Lensmen (Galactic Patrol) - 1937

E.E. "Doc" Smith, author of the Lensmen series of books, basically initiated the idea that space fleets were based on naval ideas. Quite ahead of his time. Anyone who hasnt read his work, I highly recommend it. Great Sci-Fi.

[Slayer299]

SGC did have Marines, but it was an Air Force run operation and led by a USAF general.

[nitrog100]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

nitrog100 wrote...

Look at Star Trek. They were Navy based, and they were way back at the beginning. Running the risk of possibly drawing some super nerd (I consider myself to be an average nerd) rage, I'd say it all started way back then. Oh, and don't forget that SGC also used Marines...

Close, but no cigar.
Star Trek (StarFleet) - 1966
Lensmen (Galactic Patrol) - 1937

E.E. "Doc" Smith, author of the Lensmen series of books, basically initiated the idea that space fleets were based on naval ideas. Quite ahead of his time. Anyone who hasnt read his work, I highly recommend it. Great Sci-Fi.

Exactly the kind of thing I was talking about. There is a ton of nerd stuff that I have no clue about. Just don't question my Voyager or SG-1. Me and my brother got each other the box sets and have watched them two times over. I actually had an idea about why they aren't Air Force. These ships operate out in space, and there isn't any air out there. If they're not operating in atmosphere, then they're not really an "Air Force". Space Force just sounds cheesy. 

[Inquisitor Recon]

If there is an Army branch of the Systems Alliance military structure I presume all planetary and colonial defense forces fall under their jurisdiction. My question is if there are other units such as armored and mechanized forces that can be transported by the Navy and assist the Marine Corp in any sort of offensive operations.

[RaveTDC]

General Malor wrote...

It could have been Colonel Shepard, instead of Commander Shepard.

The only issue there is the catch-22 that the Marines and Navy are closely joined, and a Colonel is an equivilent rank to the Captain of a ship. The weird thing is that, at least in the United States Armed Forces, Commander is a Naval rank...whereas Shepard is a Marine. Artistic license?

I would be very interesting to see ground forces differ in the Alliance. We've seen some models of gunships and fighters from gameplay and trailers respectively, but are they spacefaring? Navy controlled like some deck crews on a carrier? What about the Army in respects of field units, IFVs, tanks, artillery?

It needs to be March already.

Modifié par RaveTDC, 22 juin 2011 - 07:00 .

[sgtrock]

If the alliance is based off of the superpowers of earth, then do certain country's still have there own individual military's?

[catgirl789]

RaveTDC wrote...

General Malor wrote...

It could have been Colonel Shepard, instead of Commander Shepard.

The only issue there is the catch-22 that the Marines and Navy are closely joined, and a Colonel is an equivilent rank to the Captain of a ship. The weird thing is that, at least in the United States Armed Forces, Commander is a Naval rank...whereas Shepard is a Marine. Artistic license?
*snip*

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Humanity_and_the_Systems_Alliance#Systems_Alliance:_Military_RanksHope these help.

sgtrock wrote...

If the alliance is based off of the superpowers of earth, then do certain country's still have there own individual military's?

http://masseffect.wi...#Administration

[ScaleItchRecipient]

The Air Force does handle a lot of the outer-space related things, but I doubt The United States Air Force still exists. Navy fits that kind of operation more, and the alliance doesnt have to call it an air force just because the US would.

But it does make sense that Army/Air Force would handle local defense or colony garrisons.

[locowolfie]

i think that the navy and airforce also merged into one entity

[jamesp81]

General Malor wrote...

The Alliance Military is based off of the joint efforts of the super powers of Earth joining together. That's cool. But what I'm wondering is why if this is based off of our actual militaries do see the Navy doing much of the lifting for American related forces. I've got no problem what so ever with the Navy, lots of my family has served with them, but I'm wondering why we see Marines and Navy personnel.

The US Air Force is tip of the spear in all things outer-space related in our modern military. So I'm wondering why we don't see more Air Force related ranks and personnel in the game.

I mean they could have gone with the Navy to avoid confusion with Stargate, but only maybe.

It could have been Colonel Shepard, instead of Commander Shepard. But in sci-fi there is already an established Colonel Shepard. Plus if could lead people to crying out in great mobs to recruit Ronon to your crew.

Anyway, would you all as gamers like to see more military branches in the Alliance Military? Or are you just fine and dandy with Marines running about everywhere?

It would also be nice to hear from a writer or somone as to why the Navy was chosen, instead of the Air Force.

Navies have already developed some of the institutional mindset needed to operate a spaceship, especially the submarine service.  Submarines and space ships share a number of interesting qualities.  Both are built on pressure hulls, both operate in extraordinarily hostile environments, both need to be able to support their crew with air and water, and both need to be able to operate away from home base for months at a time.  Navies also already understand the psychological profile needed for someone to be posted to such an assignment.

Air Forces institutional mindset includes loading up, bombing something, and being home within 24 hours.

If you want a good perspective on this, try reading The Looking Glass series by John Ringo.  Ringo was in the Army, but he goes into detail how sub crews are most well equipped to adapt to operating spaceships.

Navies such as the US Navy and Royal Navy also have aircraft carriers and pilots.  So choosing the Navy to evolve into a space-based military service makes sense, as any fighter pilot expertise the Air Force has the Navy also has.

Modifié par jamesp81, 22 juin 2011 - 07:31 .

[jamesp81]

ReconTeam wrote...

If there is an Army branch of the Systems Alliance military structure I presume all planetary and colonial defense forces fall under their jurisdiction. My question is if there are other units such as armored and mechanized forces that can be transported by the Navy and assist the Marine Corp in any sort of offensive operations.

The Alliance Marines apparently have heavy armor and artillery units.  They're mentioned in the Codex.

[jamesp81]

sgtrock wrote...

If the alliance is based off of the superpowers of earth, then do certain country's still have there own individual military's?

Yes.  The Codex says most of the countries on Earth still have at least a token military.

[jamesp81]

This is an interesting discussion that has come up from time to time, and I've given it some serious thought.

Prepare for a wall-o-text

I considered what would be the best way to arrange a military for a nation with FTL space ships.  One thing that jumps out at me is that control of space is paramount.  Once you control the space above a planet, it's only a matter of time before you take the planet.  For this reason, whichever service operates your space fleet is the most important one.

If FTL was invented tomorrow and my opinion was asked on how to rearrange the USA's four military services, this is how I'd do it:

The US Navy would operate the space fleet.  See my above post as to why.  TLDR version is that the Navy already has the institutional mindset to operate vehicles away from home port for months at a time in a hostile environment.  This is especially true for the submarine service, which would probably be the tip of the spear in converting the Navy from operating ships on the oceans to operating warships in space.  The Navy also has it's own "air force" and would retain that expertise for space carrier operations if the tech allowed for that.

The US Air Force would be disbanded and merged into the Navy, chiefly for the piloting expertise.

The duties of the US Marine Corps and the US Army would change somewhat, due to the necessity of holding control of space.  Once a fleet controls a planet's near orbit space, large scale ground warfare is impossible for the defender.  Orbiting ships will easily see large armies moving about on the ground and will obliterate them from orbit.  Sieges of planets will, in most cases, devolve into guerilla conflicts.  The invader will control space and have heavy ground forces at his disposal.  The defender will have to rely on stealth and hit and run attacks.

To this end, the USMC would operate on naval vessels, as they have traditionally done.  They would also maintain their traditional role of invasion and establishing beachheads.  One thing would change, however, in that the USMC's training would be specialized for counter-insurgency.  Most defending ground forces would be forced to use insurgency tactics due to the fact that orbiting warships could simply bombard large ground armies to dust.  The USMC would still be more lightly equipped than the Army and optimized to move quickly to respond to insurgent attacks.  Equipment-wise, the USMC would have little heavy armor or heavy artillery which would only really be used during the initial invasion phase.  They would concentrate on air mobile infantry, mechanized infantry, and tactical air support (gunships and similar).  For air superiority, some space / carrier based fighter squadrons would be USMC operated, as is customary now.  Marines would also be the primary force used to board other ships when necessary.

The US Army would be primarily a defensive force, with a few exceptions that I will deal with in a moment.  Their focus would be on insurgent tactics and counter-invasion tactics.  Defensive Army units would be equipped similarly to USMC offensive units; mobility would be emphasized over firepower.  Planetary defenses that mounted large scale, ground to space missiles intended to repel hostile warships would be under the Army's purview.  One exception to this would be the few Army units that were stationed on large transport ships.  In the unlikely case that the USMC is used to invade a planet and the defenders are able mount a defense using large scale conventional tactics, the Army would be brought in to fight these sort of protracted campaigns in the traditional style using lots of heavy armor, heavy artillery, and air power.

[Rulid]

jamesp81 wrote...

This is an interesting discussion that has come up from time to time, and I've given it some serious thought.

.....


The US Army would be primarily a defensive force, with a few exceptions that I will deal with in a moment.  Their focus would be on insurgent tactics and counter-invasion tactics.  Defensive Army units would be equipped similarly to USMC offensive units; mobility would be emphasized over firepower.  Planetary defenses that mounted large scale, ground to space missiles intended to repel hostile warships would be under the Army's purview.  One exception to this would be the few Army units that were stationed on large transport ships.  In the unlikely case that the USMC is used to invade a planet and the defenders are able mount a defense using large scale conventional tactics, the Army would be brought in to fight these sort of protracted campaigns in the traditional style using lots of heavy armor, heavy artillery, and air power.

Nice analysis.

Just one question, which seems to be absent from the post.

What about stationary ground artillery that can be used as anti-orbital  defense (i.e. death ray )
Planetary defense can shift the problem of orbital dominance to a more terrestrial conflict.

Considering conflicts around large ground based instalations, I don't see Army and Marines switching roles much. ( or it's just my prejudice talking, Ret. Army Surgeon)

[Skirata129]

nitrog100 wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

nitrog100 wrote...

Look at Star Trek. They were Navy based, and they were way back at the beginning. Running the risk of possibly drawing some super nerd (I consider myself to be an average nerd) rage, I'd say it all started way back then. Oh, and don't forget that SGC also used Marines...

Close, but no cigar.
Star Trek (StarFleet) - 1966
Lensmen (Galactic Patrol) - 1937

E.E. "Doc" Smith, author of the Lensmen series of books, basically initiated the idea that space fleets were based on naval ideas. Quite ahead of his time. Anyone who hasnt read his work, I highly recommend it. Great Sci-Fi.

Exactly the kind of thing I was talking about. There is a ton of nerd stuff that I have no clue about. Just don't question my Voyager or SG-1. Me and my brother got each other the box sets and have watched them two times over. I actually had an idea about why they aren't Air Force. These ships operate out in space, and there isn't any air out there. If they're not operating in atmosphere, then they're not really an "Air Force". Space Force just sounds cheesy. 

... they DO operate in space. the Blackbird goes high enough to qualify as a spaceship by some definitions and the aurora and scramjet are fighters and transports designed for space travel.

[General Malor]

nice post jamesp81, though I still have my wonders.

Currently I think due to what the Air Force does today, and what is involved in space warfare they are still the best suited. I could easily see Combat Controllers boarding enemy ships, and then guiding allied forces to better assualt the enemy.

But who knows. There would most likely be a new branch, not assosiated with the others. Like how NASA wasn't just the space navy. It would have to be something new, ya know.