71 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
And I wish you were an ASoIaF fan.    It would be interesting to discuss some of those characters.

I did watch GoT and I really liked it! I've been looking for people to discuss it  with actually :happy:

And I am planning on reading the books now.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 27 juin 2011 - 05:07 .

[Monica21]

Addai67 wrote...
Oh, and Monica, nice to see you. 

Addai! *waves* I need to catch up on your fic! 

[Jedimaster88]

Where do you find mentions about orlesians camping at the border? I hear that they were turned away but nothing about them camping or assembling or anything else. Have I missed something?

[BlazingSpeed]

Engal wrote...

Is Loghain really such a good general? At Ostagar, he was unaware of the size of the darksapwn army, leading to a large portion of Ferelden's forces being massacred. IIRC, they fought in the valley instead of from the high ground. He turned down aid from the Wardens and army of Orlais, presumably thinking that he could win without their help -- a possible occupation is better than being exterminated by a Blight. Then, at the Landsmeet, Loghain still seemed to think he and his vastly outnumbered army could triumph if only the nobles sided against that pesky Warden.

That except maybe the darkspawn numbers thing Ostagar was horriblely planned fighting from the vally and all, Loghain even admits as much (That his plans after Ostagar were terrible...) if your decide to let him join the party.

Also, I though this topic was about that pesky old man that laways sides with Loghain no matter what I can't figure out why but it annoys me everytime I heard that old man say Loghain is the better canidate even after everyone else says the Warden is right about the blight.

Modifié par BlazingSpeed, 27 juin 2011 - 07:13 .

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

For old time's sake, I am going to break my vow and go into Loghain debates again.

It's been too long and the DAO forums are dead. Break that vow! 

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

So either he's a paranoid madman or he's a moron. What he is not is well written.

I am curious, what happens to those who do think he is well written (for me, seriously the best Bioware written character alongside Morrigan).. Are we morons or madmen ourselves?

Or moronic madmen. 

[gandanlin]

I thought Loghain was a reasonably "well written" character. He had certain similarities to Macbeth: a sort of dark, brooding regicidal madman, if you will.

Whether or not one chooses to recruit him is largely a matter of personal preference. Leliana also had her hand in certain treasonous activities: but she was being used by Marjolaine and attempted to undo what she had done. Loghain was in full command of all he did. The only reason he alters his stance is because he has been bested in a judicial duel.

Loghain may be "well written," but he is also well and truly a traitor to all those who died at Ostagar in loyal defence of their country. It is well and just Loghain should be given a traitor's due.

It writes very well.

Exeunt (with trumpet fanfare)

[Addai]

BlazingSpeed wrote...
Also, I though this topic was about that pesky old man that laways sides with Loghain no matter what I can't figure out why but it annoys me everytime I heard that old man say Loghain is the better canidate even after everyone else says the Warden is right about the blight.

What's funny is that he has the same VA as Loghain. 

[Addai]

Jedimaster88 wrote...

Where do you find mentions about orlesians camping at the border? I hear that they were turned away but nothing about them camping or assembling or anything else. Have I missed something?

Cailan/ Duncan at Ostagar tell you that there are Orlesian Grey Wardens coming with chevaliers.  Riordan confirms this later, saying that they were turned back at the border by Loghain's men.  Not sure what you mean by them camping or assembling.  An army doesn't move on a dime, there had to be some assembly required.

[Jedimaster88]

"With the civil war errupting and the Orlesian army camping at the borders instead of turning away like they were told, Loghain saw them as the greater threat than the darkspawn who we know don't do anything after Lothering."

This is what caught my attention when I was checking what people have posted. Im not sure if this person meant it like this but I thought he literally meant that there are orlesian troops camping right at the border and they´re not turning away like they were told. I know what Cailan, Duncan and Riordan say, but I dont remember anyone in the game saying that the orlesians are not turning away or that they are camping.

Is it true that the old man at the landsmeet and Loghain have a same voice actor? Because if so then...wow. Its amazing how people can sound so different.

[Zjarcal]

Addai67 wrote...

BlazingSpeed wrote...
Also, I though this topic was about that pesky old man that laways sides with Loghain no matter what I can't figure out why but it annoys me everytime I heard that old man say Loghain is the better canidate even after everyone else says the Warden is right about the blight.

What's funny is that he has the same VA as Loghain. 

I never would've guessed!!

[Addai]

Jedimaster88 wrote...

"With the civil war errupting and the Orlesian army camping at the borders instead of turning away like they were told, Loghain saw them as the greater threat than the darkspawn who we know don't do anything after Lothering."

This is what caught my attention when I was checking what people have posted. Im not sure if this person meant it like this but I thought he literally meant that there are orlesian troops camping right at the border and they´re not turning away like they were told. I know what Cailan, Duncan and Riordan say, but I dont remember anyone in the game saying that the orlesians are not turning away or that they are camping.

They did turn back.  I can't remember where but somewhere it's said that there was a diplomatic row because they didn't like it, but they didn't try to cross once Loghain's forces dis-invited them.  Except for Riordan, of course.

Is it true that the old man at the landsmeet and Loghain have a same voice actor? Because if so then...wow. Its amazing how people can sound so different.

Simon Templeman is multi-talented.    He can do masculine badass and squeaky weasel both.  He also voiced the Tranquil in the Wonders of Thedas, the kennelmaster in Ostagar, Caladrius (the blood mage in the alienage), and Mervis, the merchant guild guy in Awakening.

Modifié par Addai67, 27 juin 2011 - 09:43 .

[Jedimaster88]

The kennelmaster did sound familiar, well that explains it. As for the others...well I had no idea. Some people just have that talent.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Addai67 wrote...

BlazingSpeed wrote...
Also, I though this topic was about that pesky old man that laways sides with Loghain no matter what I can't figure out why but it annoys me everytime I heard that old man say Loghain is the better canidate even after everyone else says the Warden is right about the blight.

What's funny is that he has the same VA as Loghain. 

OMG, further proof Loghain IS EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!! He like knows blood magic and can not only control the minds of idiot nobles like Ceorlic, he can throw his voice as well! Loghain is a ventriliaquist maleficar! The biggest threat to Thedas since the Blights!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Jedimaster88 wrote...

"With the civil war errupting and the Orlesian army camping at the borders instead of turning away like they were told, Loghain saw them as the greater threat than the darkspawn who we know don't do anything after Lothering."

This is what caught my attention when I was checking what people have posted. Im not sure if this person meant it like this but I thought he literally meant that there are orlesian troops camping right at the border and they´re not turning away like they were told. I know what Cailan, Duncan and Riordan say, but I dont remember anyone in the game saying that the orlesians are not turning away or that they are camping.

Riordan said the Wardens and Orlesian army are waiting there. They may not have camped right on the border. But since they are waiting for Ferelden to be ruined, they most certainly did not return to their barracks and dissassemble. They naturally would have waited close to the borders for their chance to go in. And that alone is enough.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 27 juin 2011 - 11:03 .

[Rvlion]

I really don't understand the whole fuss about "betraying" Alistair. That annoying little kid how good looking he may be told me from the early beginning that he wants nothing to do with his nobel birth. Then he should not whine about me making other plans.

That said I always side with Alistair except for 1 time... made a save just prior to the landsmeet, took Loghain and let him kill the Archdemon. Gave me several Achievements, then reloaded the safegame and let Alistair take the sword who kills the Archdemon.

(I took the sword on my first playthrough... )

[Jedimaster88]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Jedimaster88 wrote...

"With the civil war errupting and the Orlesian army camping at the borders instead of turning away like they were told, Loghain saw them as the greater threat than the darkspawn who we know don't do anything after Lothering."

This is what caught my attention when I was checking what people have posted. Im not sure if this person meant it like this but I thought he literally meant that there are orlesian troops camping right at the border and they´re not turning away like they were told. I know what Cailan, Duncan and Riordan say, but I dont remember anyone in the game saying that the orlesians are not turning away or that they are camping.

Riordan said the Wardens and Orlesian army are waiting there. They may not have camped right on the border. But since they are waiting for Ferelden to be ruined, they most certainly did not return to their barracks and dissassemble. They naturally would have waited close to the borders for their chance to go in. And that alone is enough.

And who said they waited a chance to go in? They have many chances but they dont act. Many have said how the perfect moment for them to move in is right after the archdemon is killed and take over because Ferelden has lost much of its forces by then. Instead they dont and they send about a dozen wardens to help the new commander of the grey. You dont think they might just as well wait near the border and be ready if the darkspawn come to their country next, should Ferelden fall? its why the Swedish sent volunteers to our aid in the continuation war against the Soviet union because their logic was that if our country falls, theirs will be next.

[Addai]

The Grey Wardens are the ones who came to Amaranthine, not chevaliers. That's quite a different story. If your country suffered a brutal occupation by a country known for its colonizing ways, you might hesitate to accept their military's presence even in a disaster. The Orlesians used help against a Blight as an excuse before to occupy territory, in Nevarra.

Whether they would have done so in Ferelden or not, we simply don't know. The fact that they didn't invade after the Blight is only evidence that they are more calculating than they were in the past. It doesn't necessarily mean they don't have any designs on the country at all. I think Celene wanted the same things her predecessors wanted, she just hoped to win them by honey rather than by an iron fist. Ferelden suffered from the Blight, but they also showed themselves both militarily and politically able to meet a terrible threat all on their own.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Jedimaster88 wrote...
And who said they waited a chance to go in?

Riordan and by that I meant go in after the blight takes over Ferelden, because the Wardens didnt' want to involve themselves in the civil war.

And Loghain has no way of knowing that this was their intention, and were not instead waiting for the civil war to take its toll and then move in. What he saw was an Orlesian army camping near the borders. And he didn't believe it was a blight.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 28 juin 2011 - 05:53 .

[Jedimaster88]

Good points. I sometimes forget that the wardens dont involve themselves in politics. Same can be said about me so I dont always know to take those things into consideration when they should be.

As for the future of Ferelden, I quess we just have to wait and see what comes with the orlesians.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Jedimaster88 wrote...
I sometimes forget that the wardens dont involve themselves in politics.

They most certainly do.

HIstorically, they helped spread Orlesian influence. There is a warden in the Imperial court of Orlais (the Warden commander of Amaranthine). And now the First Warden wants the order to assume a larger political role.

Their apolitical stance is a myth. Instead, they try to be politically neutral, at least after the 3rd blight. Try, because they are obviously going to be more dependent on richer nations giving them stipends. Currently, Orlais hosts the most Wardens and is the richest.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 28 juin 2011 - 06:56 .

[Jedimaster88]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Jedimaster88 wrote...
I sometimes forget that the wardens dont involve themselves in politics.

They most certainly do.

HIstorically, they helped spread Orlesian influence. There is a warden in the Imperial court of Orlais (the Warden commander of Amaranthine). And now the First Warden wants the order to assume a larger political role.

Their apolitical stance is a myth. Instead, they try to be politically neutral, at least after the 3rd blight. Try, because they are obviously going to be more dependent on richer nations giving them stipends. Currently, Orlais hosts the most Wardens and is the richest.

Really? I know about the first wardens hopes and plans for the warden commander of amaranthine but spreading Orlesian influence was new to me or are you referring to that Orlais conquerin Nevarra thing that was mentioned earlier? Can all this info be found from the codex entries? If so then I must read them more carefully the next time I play it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Jedimaster88 wrote...
Really? I know about the first wardens hopes and plans for the warden commander of amaranthine but spreading Orlesian influence was new to me or are you referring to that Orlais conquerin Nevarra thing that was mentioned earlier? Can all this info be found from the codex entries? If so then I must read them more carefully the next time I play it.

It's in the timeline. They helped spread the Chantry when it was first founded by Orlesian Emperor Drakon. It was obviously part of his imperialist policy.

Sadly, this is not in the codex in the game. But I assume it's common knowledge within the unvierse itself.