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[Ghost-Hack]

 
One of the few things I really hated about mass effect 2, is that after a certain point, your friendships with "romancible party members" (which, honestly, felt like half the crew) HAD to turn romantic.

it was soooo frustrating when I just wanted to be jacob's awesome gal-pal, or knowing that the reason I had nothing left to say to jack, was because all she had left to say, all the development she had left to give, was through a romance angle.



Dont get me wrong, I LOVE the romance elements of bioware games... but I could have sworn it actually took time, and effort, and desire in their other projects.




One thing i was considering, was that perhaps romance options, once they become available, would function like the "additional comments" on the dialogue wheel (like how sometimes you get dialogue options where the charm intimidate options are, that arent red or blue.)
Make those comments actually flirty (sort of like your sly comments to Kelly in ME2), and keep the primary dialoge options more.... Social.
I hate feeling like the only reason to talk to my teammates is cause shep wants to get in their pants.



there's more to saving the universe than that.

[Robhuzz]

You're in luck. I heard (read actually but it doesn't matter) BW is improving the friendship paths for squadmembers in ME3. To me this sounds like there will be plenty of dialogue with your squad even if you choose not to romance them (which in my case would be all but one squaddie). Which also means you should be able to socialize with your squad without romancing them...

Modifié par Robhuzz, 22 juin 2011 - 02:19 .

[Ghost-Hack]

see, while that's encouraging, my fear remains.

the problem with ME2 wasnt that you couldnt be friends with your squadmates..... it was that if they were romance-able, your interest in them ALWAYS led down that path.

like i say, I'm no romance hater, it just bugged me that I, as the player and as shep, couldnt keep it professional, couldnt keep it "socially intimate, but on a friends only basis" without simply cutting the conversations short at some point (sometimes very early on, I remember HATING talking to Jacob as fem-shep just because I liked the guy as a cool older-brother type, and shep couldnt say ANYTHING nice to him, without sounding like a tigress on the prowl)

[Ghost-Hack]

{derp:} double post

Modifié par Ghost-Hack, 22 juin 2011 - 02:24 .

[Sarcastic Tasha]

I agree, Shepard should have more friendship conversations. Jack seemed particularly bad, just when it seemed like she was starting to open up she completely shuts down any further conversation. It doesn't make sense, so Shep can only get through to her if Shep is male and pursues a romance? Why couldn't FemShep become her friend? Miranda seemed more willing to be friends with FemShep but I still would have liked a bit more conversation. Garrus doesn't have enough conversation even with the romance imo.

[Shepard Lives]

I feel your pain Ghost-Hack. Luckily, we've been told ME3 will be improved in that regard.

[Ghost-Hack]

which is why I was hoping BW would take the logical leap, and make romances sort of like the charm/intimidate dialogue options....

i.e. once you've become "friendly" enough with someone, new optional dialogue queues appear. So, you can still get to know more about the character, become cooler friends (and maybe evolve into a different friend relationship than you ever would have, as lovers (i.e. becoming buddy cops with Garius, surrogate brothers/sisters with jack or jacob, goofy slumber party pals with tali, etc))..... Or, take it to that next level, and become Lovers.


It also makes the Ashley/Kaiden thing both more meaningful, and more deep.
consider:
you could decide that too much time has passed, too much has happend.... and you and A/K are finished romantically, but still have a strong bond, friendshipwise...
or
you could get them back in your good graces, patch over your old sores on the road to friendship again, and when the time is right.... try to re-establish the lovers relationship you once had.



rather than just "oop, guess I cant talk to ash any more, since I decided to romance jack/miranda in the second game, and want to be true to the girl who didnt whine and screw me over cause I was dead for 2 years."

[Ghost-Hack]

Shepard Lives wrote...

I feel your pain Ghost-Hack. Luckily, we've been told ME3 will be improved in that regard.

anyone know where I can read that for myself.....
like i said earlier, I'm worried that it's simply "more dialogue", rather than actually addressing my concern (petty and specific though it may be ;P)

[Robhuzz]

Ghost-Hack wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...

I feel your pain Ghost-Hack. Luckily, we've been told ME3 will be improved in that regard.

anyone know where I can read that for myself.....
like i said earlier, I'm worried that it's simply "more dialogue", rather than actually addressing my concern (petty and specific though it may be ;P)

Try this topic and just follow the source if possible. There's a lot of information coming in from the devs through twitter these days.

[Ghost-Hack]

I find twitter releases sooo depressing.

[ElitePinecone]

I think, like others have said, that they are definitely working on this in ME3. The amount I've seen the writers and designers tweeting about it suggests that a fair bit of work is going into it.

I loved the short friendship conversations with Chakwas and Liara after LotSB; they were some of the more powerful emotional moments in the series and I connected more with those characters then than with pretty much any of the ME2 squadmates.

So yeah, definitely agree. People loved the characterisation, but had complaints about it abruptly ending; I think it's safe to say it'll be expanded in ME3.

[Bugsie]

I can't say I hated this aspect, but I did feel disappointment in not being able to interact more with characters I chose not to romance (or who weren't available as romance options). Jack was the perfect example of this, I really wanted to get to know her better but a wall was put up. Also her romance ending with mShep where she opens up to him, I really wanted a non-romance version of this available to both Shep genders.

[Kenthen]

All I want is to high five Garrus, is that too much to ask?

[dgcatanisiri]

Not being able to become just friends with Jack without her shutting me down after I tell her I'm not looking to sleep with her still frustrates me. In my book, she needs a friend far more than she needs a boink buddy. Tali is no better. I get a conversation from her about the new Normandy and Cerberus, she learns about the trial, she has her reaction to it, and then she tells Shepard she's interested in him. Then she has nothing more to talk about. Oh, and Garrus, Shepard's bro, has nothing more to say to him because they can't romance each other? Come on!

I know it'd take time and cost, but I'd really like to see a romance and friendship path for all the romanceable characters, just so that we don't get these people to completely clam up once we run out of things to say before things between us turn to romance.

[Ghost-Hack]

Dude, I totally want to have some male bonding time with Garrus and Jacob.... Mshep and the boys just seem like a perfect "crew" to go mob around the galaxy with....


but yeah, Bugg... I totally felt it with jack, where the game was all like "uh... why dont you want to get it on with jack? dont you want to find out more about her.... and then get her naked?"

I guess thats what I didnt like, the feeling that if I wanted to be friends with certain characters, I had to be looking for sex.

meanwhile, characters like Kelly, who totally felt like "hey, here's a character just to have fun with the romantic aspects of the game..." wasn't even a real romance option.

[78stonewobble]

 Non-romantic Socializing -> sorely needed...

[78stonewobble]

Arf... double post or forum pulling my leg.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 22 juin 2011 - 04:22 .

[l DryIce l]

Great point, OP. Hope this improves in ME3.

[Siansonea]

+1 for more friendship dialog. Or even rivalry/antagonism dialog.

[Ghost-Hack]

Siansonea II wrote...

+1 for more friendship dialog. Or even rivalry/antagonism dialog.

I hadn't even considered antagonism/rivalry dialogue.... It would be brilliant if Garrus wanted to watch Fleet and Flotilla with Tali, and then you swooped in with some super anti-biotics and charm ;P

[EliDL]

I played Mass Effect 1 and 2 without talking to any romanceable characters besides the one that I wanted. I  think it's great that they are implementing more friendly/buddy specific dialogue.

[Siansonea]

dgcatanisiri wrote...

Not being able to become just friends with Jack without her shutting me down after I tell her I'm not looking to sleep with her still frustrates me. In my book, she needs a friend far more than she needs a boink buddy. Tali is no better. I get a conversation from her about the new Normandy and Cerberus, she learns about the trial, she has her reaction to it, and then she tells Shepard she's interested in him. Then she has nothing more to talk about. Oh, and Garrus, Shepard's bro, has nothing more to say to him because they can't romance each other? Come on!

I know it'd take time and cost, but I'd really like to see a romance and friendship path for all the romanceable characters, just so that we don't get these people to completely clam up once we run out of things to say before things between us turn to romance.

Not to mention, it seems really exploitive for Shepard to try to romance Tali if she's exiled from the Migrant Fleet. Talk about taking advantage of somebody. She's just lost her father AND found out he died because he was a war criminal, covered up his crimes anyway and was then kicked out of her entire species' society. Yeah, that girl is ready for a healthy relationship? I don't think so. Bad Shepard! 

[Ghost-Hack]

yeah.... the fact that shep was out to stick it to anyone in 2 kinda bugged me.


honestly, maybe I just suck, but in like KOTOR, Jade Empire...even dragon age, it seemed... I dont know... Challenging, to get someone to consider a romantic entanglement.
you really had to get to know them, often had to find out some secret aspect of their past and navigate the various possible responses to what they said, so that you could successfully "hit on them"


it bugged me in ME 1, where you only got like 5 conversations with the LI's in the whole game (seriously, we're talking summer blockbuster levels of emotional depth here :-/), but it was OK, because you you only had three love interests, and everyone else, for the most part, had something to talk about of a non-sexual nature (usually culminating in some side mission)


But in Mass Effect 2... i just felt....sort of "dirty"... like after 2 years on an operating table, Shep just wanted to get laid, and would say anything to anyone to get it.
Romances were optional, sure.... but it felt too easy, FAR too easy, and too cheap, and too omnipresent to be truely "rewarding" like it was in old bioware games.



I hope, in saying this: "The writers have worked up some new systems and techniques for how squadmembers interact and banter with each other"
Casey isnt just saying "now, more ways than ever to shack up with anyone with a pulse!"



Maybe its the old romantic in me.... but its the trials and tribulations, the challenges that two people must overcome, together (internally and socially, not JUST exploding stars and doomsday weapons) that make a Romance storyline meaningful.
I want to have to earn it.

[J. Finley]

Ghost-Hack wrote...

yeah.... the fact that shep was out to stick it to anyone in 2 kinda bugged me.


honestly, maybe I just suck, but in like KOTOR, Jade Empire...even dragon age, it seemed... I dont know... Challenging, to get someone to consider a romantic entanglement.
you really had to get to know them, often had to find out some secret aspect of their past and navigate the various possible responses to what they said, so that you could successfully "hit on them"


it bugged me in ME 1, where you only got like 5 conversations with the LI's in the whole game (seriously, we're talking summer blockbuster levels of emotional depth here :-/), but it was OK, because you you only had three love interests, and everyone else, for the most part, had something to talk about of a non-sexual nature (usually culminating in some side mission)


But in Mass Effect 2... i just felt....sort of "dirty"... like after 2 years on an operating table, Shep just wanted to get laid, and would say anything to anyone to get it.
Romances were optional, sure.... but it felt too easy, FAR too easy, and too cheap, and too omnipresent to be truely "rewarding" like it was in old bioware games.



I hope, in saying this: "The writers have worked up some new systems and techniques for how squadmembers interact and banter with each other"
Casey isnt just saying "now, more ways than ever to shack up with anyone with a pulse!"



Maybe its the old romantic in me.... but its the trials and tribulations, the challenges that two people must overcome, together (internally and socially, not JUST exploding stars and doomsday weapons) that make a Romance storyline meaningful.
I want to have to earn it.

I completely agree. I have a feeling they're going to surprise us in how they're going to deal with the the love triangle and other challenges we have to face regarding LIs in ME3.

[Bugsie]

Ghost-Hack wrote...
Maybe its the old romantic in me.... but its the trials and tribulations, the challenges that two people must overcome, together (internally and socially, not JUST exploding stars and doomsday weapons) that make a Romance storyline meaningful.
I want to have to earn it.

I feel the romances in ME1 were more subtle than ME2, which explains why I didn't realise ME had romances options at all having never played a Bioware game before (LOL I have now idea HOW I managed that one considering people talk a lot about 'ninjamancing'). 

I am definitely an old romantic as well

Also the thing about earning it, friendships deserve that path as well as the romances.