225 réponses à ce sujet

[alex90c]

At least the Warden didn't have to constantly fight paratroopers, haha.

[Theagg]

Persephone wrote...

It boils down to emotional connections, I suppose. And while I can understand those who may not have gotten attached to DAII characters (Be it Hawke or anyone)......there is nothing funny about losing a parent/sibling. I've lost both, I know. Again, no problem with "Those scenes just didn't get through to me." But the "LULZ!" garbage? No way.

And if you hate DAII so much (To the point of needing a ciggy every 20 minutes.......ah HYPERBOLE!) , just play something else & move on. It's been over 3 months.

This is true, we know some people hate DA2. That's fair enough. But many of those same people just can't stop saying this and every day almost a new post pops up whereby the same grievances get aired, often subtley hidden behind supposed 'constructive' titles. It's Kicking a Dead Horse really.

[Persephone]

alex90c wrote...

At least the Warden didn't have to constantly fight paratroopers, haha.

Because waves of darkspawn are so....diverse.......

[Theagg]

Persephone wrote...

Theagg wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

Attempting a third playthrough, I'm afraid I just can't take the game seriously anymore, therefore I have little emotional connection. The amount of people that Hawke and his crew kill is just ridiculous. Hawke isn't a hero like the Warden in DA:O, or Shepard in Mass Effect, he's just a peasant trying to make a name for himself for much of the game. Yet he's able to massacre legions of bandits in the streets on a daily basis without even thinking about it. I would think that someone who sees so much death so often would be changed, but Hawke and his companions never even mention it. It's just not believable at all.

Well, to be fair Varric does make a passing mention about the massive death total resulting from Hawkes antics in Kirkwall. He does this during party banter with Anders. Varric mentions to Anders, when Anders is gumbling, that along the way, amongst other things he has killed 500 or more people. A line to that effect. (It happened in Act 2 in my playthroughs, in Hightown)

I remember that banter.

Never mind my Warden having +1000 PERSONAL kills in DAO. In a year. They could both be accused of mass murder for killing hundreds of people if one were to apply 21st century morals. (I see no logic in doing so)

Logically, some could make a difference between the two in that in Origins, most deaths perpetrated by the Warden were those of Darkspawn and various non human creatrues. Whereas Hawke mainly kills humans.

So for some, there is justification for one but not the other. But then again in much of fantasy and hero fiction, (Film, TV and books) the protagonist often kills large numbers of humans, henchmen and bosses alike, who, for some reason, pick on the hero, so its not that far fetched anyway.

[DahliaLynn]

The sad truth about DA2 IMO is most likely the fact that in order to evoke any memorable moment/emotion is to have multiple playthroughs. This means, you *need* more time for the characters to grow on you. I didn't find myself getting emotional about anything in one playthrough.
Possible reasons would be:

- I felt I was playing Hawke's conscience rather than Hawke herself.
- Poorly written music
Cutscenes were designed to evoke sadness when your mother died, as well as Aveline's husband's death. Visually they were done quite well, but one of the key factors in evoking emotion (removing the personal connection requirement) is the music associated with that moment. The music simply didn't "do it" for me in any respect, no matter what the "cello" did. Bland melody which did not assist the visuals whatsoever. This could be one of the key factors why emotion was even harder to evoke in many of the games plot highlight points.

- Superficial character connection .

Companions (and family) felt more like acquaintances. Not enough interaction both with them and the story/quests they were involved in.

It seems the only way to get much emotion out of the game is to simply play several times. This at least would create the illusion that we know the story and characters better, therefore build a better connection with them. This way music, character connection, and even the "Hawke's conscience factor" would play a smaller role as experience would take their place, naturally causing more of a heartfelt connection.
One playthrough isn't enough.

[alex90c]

Persephone wrote...

alex90c wrote...

At least the Warden didn't have to constantly fight paratroopers, haha.

Because waves of darkspawn are so....diverse.......

Well to give credit to them, at least they didn't jump out of the sky. Plus some of the encounters could be quite well designed, like the ones in the Deep Roads where the emissaries could give you absolute hell if you didn't stun them then swarm them with your entire party

Though in regards to the actual topic, while I didn't find many moments that emotional, I think people are pushing it when they say they found them funny.

Modifié par alex90c, 23 juin 2011 - 10:42 .

[Browneye_Vamp84]

After reading the books i grew very attached to Duncan .. he was a great character in The Calling.... and to see him die.. made me sad.. but DA2.. it had its moments were it sucked that someone died but nothing like what i felt when Duncan died, though Varric is by far most my favorite character in DA2. if they write a few more books and make characters more believable from DA2 then i might feel different later. but that is my opinion.

[DragonRageGT]

Persephone wrote...

It boils down to emotional connections, I suppose. And while I can understand those who may not have gotten attached to DAII characters (Be it Hawke or anyone)......there is nothing funny about losing a parent/sibling. I've lost both, I know. Again, no problem with "Those scenes just didn't get through to me." But the "LULZ!" garbage? No way.

And if you hate DAII so much (To the point of needing a ciggy every 20 minutes.......ah HYPERBOLE!) , just play something else & move on. It's been over 3 months.

There are games that makes MOST people get so into their character that emotions flow naturally. I don't remember anyone, any threads, about Anora causing lulz to anyone. Origins is a perfect example of such games. And it is filled with awesome lulz moments! A softie giant admiting have stolen cookies from a fat child? LMAO!

There are games that for whatever reason fail to cause that to MOST people. And DA2 is a case of MOST people not really getting into the character, so a grotesque scene of a dismembered-and-sewed woman zombi-walking can actually cause more lulz than emotions. Family of the game toon or not. It is just a computer character toon, not a real person and nothing in the game causes MOST people to actually feel differently.

I felt much more emotions when Sarah Kerrigan was left behind, 12 years ago, in original Starcraft game and that a RTS FFS! And when Blizzard made a beautiful cinematics of that for SC2, wow! There was one moment that caused me some emotion in DA2. When some kid I had earlier saved was, well, in need and I wasn't there for him.

DA2 is still a fun and enjoyable game but it's much more an fast packed action game than a really immersive RPG. At least for most people.

[Romantiq]

Persephone wrote...

Romantiq wrote...

This game was very emotional.

[Spoilers removed]

See? It's just positive emotions - laugh and smiles. The only question that remains is ... was it intended to be funny or sad?

I'd not call your vitriol positive. Callous more like. Never mind you forgetting that this is a non spoiler forum.

Well, it appears that I didn't connect to any of the characters like you did so defend it and call it whatever you wish if it makes you sleep better at night.

You are right about poor emotional scenes in Origins. They were present there too, but the difference is that majority of them were executed better (music helped a lot) and didnt feel like a cheap and bad tv filler as they did in DA2.

The saddest emotional part is that I know that its Bioware and I know that they could do better than that.

Modifié par JohnEpler, 23 juin 2011 - 04:55 .

[Droma]

Browneye_Vamp84 wrote...

After reading the books i grew very attached to Duncan .. he was a great character in The Calling.... and to see him die.. made me sad.. but DA2.. it had its moments were it sucked that someone died but nothing like what i felt when Duncan died, though Varric is by far most my favorite character in DA2. if they write a few more books and make characters more believable from DA2 then i might feel different later. but that is my opinion.

that's an interesting point, because i never read any of the da novels and therefore, duncans deatch in da:o didn't bother me thaaat much. i mean if you only play da:o, you know duncon for 2hours and sure see he is a noble man but not enough to really be upset about his death in my opinion.

maybe lot of the people who were sad be certain deaths in da:o and weren't bothered at all about the deaths in da2, felt that way because they read the novels before playing da:o? can't really say. but i was never sad about anything in da:o. nearly all the deaths can be choosen by you so why would i be sad about let's say alistair dying in the end? if that happens it is because i chose it earlier that way OO

in da2 there are 2 deaths which can/will occour if you make the wrong choices indirectly (let's just say deep roads because it's spoilerfree here). in my second playthrough i also didn't know what happens if i make certain choices and i was surprised about the results and kinda felt sad. so i don't know maybe people also read to much about the game earlier and knew what the "right" decisions are, or what happens if you choose the "wrong" ones. but then again it's their own fault. that's like cheating and complaining about the game being to easy.

edit: forgot, i admit it also depends on your origin in da:o, cause for example the human noble origin is kinda sad, but well also mainly because your family dies .... but wait in da2 ..... ??

Modifié par Droma, 23 juin 2011 - 11:14 .

[Romantiq]

RageGT wrote...

Persephone wrote...

It boils down to emotional connections, I suppose. And while I can understand those who may not have gotten attached to DAII characters (Be it Hawke or anyone)......there is nothing funny about losing a parent/sibling. I've lost both, I know. Again, no problem with "Those scenes just didn't get through to me." But the "LULZ!" garbage? No way.

And if you hate DAII so much (To the point of needing a ciggy every 20 minutes.......ah HYPERBOLE!) , just play something else & move on. It's been over 3 months.

There are games that makes MOST people get so into their character that emotions flow naturally. I don't remember anyone, any threads, about Anora causing lulz to anyone. Origins is a perfect example of such games. And it is filled with awesome lulz moments! A softie giant admiting have stolen cookies from a fat child? LMAO!

There are games that for whatever reason fail to cause that to MOST people. And DA2 is a case of MOST people not really getting into the character, so a grotesque scene of a dismembered-and-sewed woman zombi-walking can actually cause more lulz than emotions. Family of the game toon or not. It is just a computer character toon, not a real person and nothing in the game causes MOST people to actually feel differently.

I felt much more emotions when Sarah Kerrigan was left behind, 12 years ago, in original Starcraft game and that a RTS FFS! And when Blizzard made a beautiful cinematics of that for SC2, wow! There was one moment that caused me some emotion in DA2. When some kid I had earlier saved was, well, in need and I wasn't there for him.

DA2 is still a fun and enjoyable game but it's much more an fast packed action game than a really immersive RPG. At least for most people.

I would probably still shed a tear if I watch Grom Hellscream's heroic death video like I did years ago.

[phoenixgoddess27]

Persephone wrote...

Because waves of darkspawn are so....diverse.......

Feel free to defend DA2 while putting down DAO as much as you want. Even though people are still airing grievances three months after the game release, in their defense, you're still defending the game and getting defensive of said people... three months later. I think it's probably about time for both sides to shake hands already.

If you're referring to DAO, it was during a Blight, was it not? The waves were... expected. And as Alex said, at least they didn't appear out of thin air most of the time.

DA2 made me think the waves of enemy had a stranger danger radar and teleported to kill said stranger danger, but teleportation failed and they ended up teleporting in mid air, thus, falling out of the sky.

That's the only way I can explain the waves falling from the sky. Bad teleportation equipment.

However, even in the waves, DA2 provoked in emotion from me... annoyance.

To be fair, the good moments of DA2 were nice to enjoy. I liked when companions spoke to my dog (Even though Fenris of course just haaad to say something about Tevinter to my dog), but it was much "Daaaaww :wub:"
I did feel very sad when I couldn't save that awesome Saarebas. That was a bit of a tear jerker to me.

Modifié par phoenixgoddess27, 23 juin 2011 - 11:40 .

[Maria13]

I think it's very much a question of you lose the detail, you lose the emotion... It was interesting to discover in DA:O that Alistair liked runes and action figures... We don't ever really get inside a character like that in DA2. Yeah, Fenris plays cards and is bonking Izzy but, it's not the same, not quite the same anyway. DA2 was rushed and rushing does not emotion help.

[deatharmonic]

yaw wrote...

Origins started slowly and simply. Your character was given a chance to experience a bit of everyday life and was gradually introduced to the world and some characters, dealing with a few problems, before you were thrust into turmoil. Then the real journey started. 

DA2 started right in the thick of the action, introducing 3 characters at once. 3 characters who are supposed to be very important to Hawke throughout the game, mind you, not just throw-away relationships. A bit of combat, and you're given another 2. Then you get a whole 2 'tragedies' shortly after, in the space of about 5 mins. 

It's rushed, it's forced, it's ineffective.

^ This... The game never really takes time to set the atmosphere at all. I remember in origins when the thick fog slowly rolls through the forest and the darkspawn gradually emerge and march towards Cailen's army, meanwhile a soldier on the other side trembles and steps back in fear... moments like that really set the atmosphere and made me think this is going to be amazing! the amazing atmosphere that was set made me care about what happened. DA2 was just action action action, do quests, next chapter. no scenes took place which developed and told you a story.

[Firky]

Maria13 wrote...
Yeah, Fenris ... is bonking Izzy

What?!?!

*smacks fist against palm*

Never mind the fact that I was romancing him last playthrough.

Regardless, Fenris put me through the emotional wringer. His drinking and the fact that, no matter what I did, he just got more unhappy. But I think it was because I could identify with his character, more than anything. Same with Merrill. She was amazing.

Perhaps they were relying on people being able to invest in the characters etc emotionally in that kind of a way. Tonight I just went into the deep roads with male Hawke and Carver and their mum, well, yeah. I have two sons. I had to put my head down on the desk for a moment. It's only a game, Firky.

And, I grew up around people with additional needs so every time Sandal does something cool I punch the air.

[por favor]

OP, almost every single one of your posts are reaffirmation posts.

"do you miss the epicness origins had?"
"does this game reuse environments?" etc.

You already know what the answers are going to be.

[Merilsell]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

It certainly pulled a few heartstrings here.

I can honestly say that Merrill's final companion quest is one of the most genuinely harrowing experiences I've ever endured in a video game.

It evoke in me emotions too....just not the emotions, Bioware planned me to feel, I guess. As a passionate Mahariel-Warden player and writer (FF) I truly wanted to reach out through the screen and strangle Merrill. So frikkin bad. For all that she had done to my Warden's clan. Argh.

All that remains. Well, the basic idea is great...as well is using prior plot strings to bring them together in this quest. But then it is presented in such a rocky horror picture- way that I just found it ridiculous in the end. To me, this scene is overdone, way too much. I found myself laughing at it, which was not the emotion BW wanted to evoke from me, I'm sure. Which is a shame, because it has much potential to do it right, but it gave it away when it became too much of everything. You know, sometimes a simple scene is way more powerful and emotional than...what I got presented.

The aftermath of that, as well the companions reactions were good, but the scene itself....not.

The scene at the beginning with someone dying in the first five minutes, well that is simply forced and bad writing. If you want the audience to feel something for a character's death, you need to give them the chance to know the character, to have somewhat a relation to her/him, otherwise they won't give a flying rats ass about the character dying. Basic rule of storytelling, really.

It *might* work when you play a second time through the game, because you got to know her/him, but that shouldn't be a mandatory thing for the player, so this scene is just fail.

[aftohsix]

Hey look! A thread presenting opinion as fact and talking about how much better DAO is than DA2!

This is really new and exciting!

...oh wait

/forum

[orpheus333]

aftohsix wrote...

Hey look! A thread presenting opinion as fact and talking about how much better DAO is than DA2!

This is really new and exciting!

...oh wait

/forum

If you genuinly had an emotional response to the scenes in DA2 you would have posted something constructive.  You haven't so i can only assume DA2 failed emotionally for you.

/forum

[aftohsix]

andyr1986 wrote...

If you genuinly had an emotional response to the scenes in DA2 you would have posted something constructive.  You haven't so i can only assume DA2 failed emotionally for you.

/forum

Nice BSN logic.

[Cutlass Jack]

andyr1986 wrote...

If you genuinly had an emotional response to the scenes in DA2 you would have posted something constructive. You haven't so i can only assume DA2 failed emotionally for you.

/forum

Horrid logic. There's no point in posting something constructive in a 'nonconstructive' (nicer word) thread. This thread wasn't looking to discuss counterpoints. It was only to discuss it failing, not if it failed.

Hence, the response to an opposing view being to insult someone's sensitivity.

[dheer]

Why wasn't this game emotional?

Well, it's just like a good book or movie, some things just don't do it for you. I had a few emotive responses while playing. Some of them were even the result of the story and seemed intentional.

I yelled at the screen at a certain point near the end. I'm sure many of you might know when.

[Cutlass Jack]

dheer wrote...

I yelled at the screen at a certain point near the end. I'm sure many of you might know when.

I'm guessing 'Act 3.'

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 23 juin 2011 - 02:50 .

[Tirfan]

dheer wrote...
I yelled at the screen at a certain point near the end. I'm sure many of you might know when.

Oh yeah, this, I actually kind of liked that scene, I had that moment of joy where I thought "way to go, fight the good fight, also, this situation is inceridbly hot, where is my elven lover, we'll have a quickie and then get the fight rolling"

.. and then my character was shocked and the moment was ruined.

[Aaleel]

I think the most emotion I showed was on Merrill's last companion cast. That was more anger though, cause of the fact that I saw all of it coming, and no decisions I made were able to stop what was going to be the obvious outcome from the start.

One of my most memorable lines from the game was Andres, even though I disliked him for the vast amount of the game.

"The world is a poorer place for having you in it instead of her."

I remember I said out loud, "you got that right". If I could have left Merrill to face justice from her clan (Which should have been an option) I would have, she would have deserved whatever she got.

Other then that scene, not much connected with me.

Modifié par Aaleel, 23 juin 2011 - 03:15 .