225 réponses à ce sujet

[Aaleel]

They didn't connect you with you family pre or post death.

After Hawke's mother died, Hawke wouldn't go in her mother's room. How about having Hawke go into her mother's room, sit on the bed, pick up some things, have some fond memories of her mother.

Don't just tell me in passing "oh your sister survived the joining", let me wonder for a while, and then get a letter myself. Or let me come home and my mother is crying because she read the letter and let me be relieved with my mother.

Where were the family moments in this game. They lived with you but you never had any.

That's why I was more attached to my Cousland family in Origins because you actually had realistic, normal family moments with your parents, your nephew, your brother.

[NinaDA]

I would generally agree that we tend to project our own personalities and life experiences into the situation the protagonist is experiencing, but in order to evoke a truly emotional response and for me to care, the context and background leading up to that situation need to be set up really well, and that's where I felt DA2 lacked compared to DAO. Because the companion/family interaction was quite limited and usually covered an overarching, recurring topic (mages, slaves, relics, mirrors, etc.), I did not feel the same level of attachment to the companions as I did in DAO. I don’t think I have a heart of stone, but I have to admit I felt little emotion when losing siblings in the game, despite the fact I lost a sibling in real life so would have had plenty to project.

Simply put, the companions/family didn’t feel very real to me, because I did not get to know them beyond what their obsession was. I guess I need to see multiple facets of companions and hear/talk about socks, lamb stew, shoes, pigeons, lampposts and any other random topic to feel an emotional attachment, as those random conversations are what make characters feel real and relatable. The stand-out companion quest for me was The Long Road, which did make me smile, cringe, cheer and generally empathize.

That being said, I most certainly had a heart-stopping, kick-in-the-gut reaction to Anders’ final act. My Hawke romanced him, and because of the Awakening experience, the added lines and his generally touching romance dialogue (which again, could really have used conversations not about mage freedom, but still…), I was shocked and heartbroken and torn and everything I ought to be in that situation. Had I not romanced him and gotten that extra interaction or background through playing Awakening, I’m not sure I would have cared beyond a WTF?! moment.

[Realmzmaster]

The way Hawke reacted after his mother's death is the way some people react and realistic. They cannot bring themselves to enter the room or change anything in the room because of the pain it would bring and they want to keep the memory as it is. Call it denial. But entering the room would be admitting that they are gone.

The game itself gives different aspects on death. The Quanri view is once the spirit is gone the body does not matter. It does not matter if you bury it, burn or leave it for creatures to devour.

We are projecting our feelings on death into the game. In DAO it had the traditional way some people view death. In DA2 it showed another way to view it which also happens.

[DragonRageGT]

Romantiq wrote...

My Hawke saved his family members, prevented qunari uprising and prevented his butt buddy from committing terror. Oh wait, it was actually just my dream! This game has no choices that matter!

Man, I would have liked doing just that! And saving the Kirkwall ruling lineage too!

[Aaleel]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The way Hawke reacted after his mother's death is the way some people react and realistic. They cannot bring themselves to enter the room or change anything in the room because of the pain it would bring and they want to keep the memory as it is. Call it denial. But entering the room would be admitting that they are gone.

The game itself gives different aspects on death. The Quanri view is once the spirit is gone the body does not matter. It does not matter if you bury it, burn or leave it for creatures to devour.

We are projecting our feelings on death into the game. In DAO it had the traditional way some people view death. In DA2 it showed another way to view it which also happens.

But not different options.  If you don't want to go in fine.  But the option should be there.  It's supposed to be your character reacting how you would.

Modifié par Aaleel, 23 juin 2011 - 07:45 .

[fightright2]

I wouldn't say this game wasn't totally unemotional.

I waited and waited for Fenris to finally talk after he left my Hawke. Oh, you bet I had a lot of feelings on that.
Even more so, it totally pissed me off when my Hawke's mother died and instead of comforting, he chooses to guilt me in a comparison to him of, "At least you had a mother".

What manner of comfort is that to turn my Hawke's grief into a display of whining for having the existence and memory of having a mother.
Wow.
Not only did he kick my Hawke to the curb after being together, he then follows it with a 'kick em' when their down' while in mourning.

And of course, we all know the 'wtf' moment Anders gave us because it really didn't make sense for him to do that.
Now, unless he found he couldn't go through with it because of my Hawke, only someone else set it off and he just took the blame. <--- I am so hoping for that in DLC.

Yeah, I had emotions alright. I just didn't have them according to the story's forced dramatic moments.<_<

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

samtoshan wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

samtoshan wrote...

Persephone wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

But really that's something that goes from person to person. The actual themes and material raised in the game are not for comedic value and are intended to evoke serious emotions from both the character and player.

And they succeeded in my case. I'll gladly and honestly admit that.

Moreso than DAO ever did. Go figure. Then again, I also loved "The Thorn Birds". So I guess I have no taste.

In your opinion.

I think her saying "in my case" automatically means that it's in her opinion.

Yeah i know i was just makeing sure thats what she ment but i can respect that tho.

Sorry, but what's the fascination with pointing out that opinions are just opinions?  In my opinion, burdening a discussion with what, in my opinion, is a distracting and unnecessary (in my opinion) qualifier, only bogs down what, in my opinion, might otherwise (in my opinion) be a much smoother, more elegant exchange of what, in my opinion, are ideas.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

Computer stutter.

Modifié par Tantum Dic Verbo, 23 juin 2011 - 09:41 .

[Sutekh]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

samtoshan wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

samtoshan wrote...

Persephone wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

But really that's something that goes from person to person. The actual themes and material raised in the game are not for comedic value and are intended to evoke serious emotions from both the character and player.

And they succeeded in my case. I'll gladly and honestly admit that.

Moreso than DAO ever did. Go figure. Then again, I also loved "The Thorn Birds". So I guess I have no taste.

In your opinion.

I think her saying "in my case" automatically means that it's in her opinion.

Yeah i know i was just makeing sure thats what she ment but i can respect that tho.

Sorry, but what's the fascination with pointing out that opinions are just opinions?  In my opinion, burdening a discussion with what, in my opinion, is a distracting and unnecessary (in my opinion) qualifier, only bogs down what, in my opinion, might otherwise (in my opinion) be a much smoother, more elegant exchange of what, in my opinion, are ideas.

Everybody hate when people confuse their opinion with objective truth, which is done all the time, everywhere, by everyone, and is a horrible thing.

And that's a fact.

[DragonRageGT]

Sutekh wrote...

Everybody hate when people confuse their opinion with objective truth, which is done all the time, everywhere, by everyone, and is a horrible thing.

And that's a fact.

Everybody? I think that's just your opinion!

Modifié par RageGT, 23 juin 2011 - 11:49 .

[Anathema117]

Isn't the game not so much about your characters family but about his or her progress and adventure and making new friends along the way while overcoming some pretty tough obstacles.

I mean don't get me wrong, I get that realistically you'd be attached to your family in real life, but that's not the story DA:O or DA2 is trying to tell is it?

[KBomb]

I have to say that I viewed Carver as a bratty little brother and allowed him to die in the Deep Roads. I didn’t expect it, but it made me a little misty eyed--and it takes a lot to make me like that. It was also gutting when Elthina died. I don’t particularly care for Sebastian’s character, but his emotional reaction was spot on. Fenris telling his sister that he would have given her everything was quite sad too.

Modifié par KBomb, 24 juin 2011 - 01:38 .

[TheRealJayDee]

aftohsix wrote...

Here's my constructive response!

I was both angry and upset when I took Bethany into the Deep Roads. I had become very attached to her and protective of her as an older brother should be so I was pretty upset when everything went down. That's just one example of one place in the game where it got me to experience emotion.
.

I experienced emotion at that moment as well - I was slightly frustrated and annoyed, when I felt I as the player and my Hawke should've been devasteted. Why? Because it was the second time I lost a sibling and couldn't do a thing about it. Everything went perfectly fine until Bethany all of a sudden died because of... something that must have happened off screen?!

The whole Hawke family thing and the lack of emotion I experienced is one of my biggest problems with the game. My first (and canon) Hawke was all about caring for his family (partially due to lack of any other goals), and he lost them all. What bugs me about it is the way Hawke and the world react about it, and that I felt their deaths were nearly completely meaningless.
 
First Carver got smashed before I even got to know him - because I as the player decided to play a warrior. 
Then Bethany died in the Deep Roads - because I took her with me and something must have gone wrong without me noticing.
Finally Leandra gets killed by a madman I knew about but couldn't do anything to stop him - because... we needed to be reminded that mages can be sick bastards?

Argh, I got to sleep. Damn, I wanted to go on a bit longer. I'll try to continue tomorrow...

[Chiramu]

Aaleel wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The way Hawke reacted after his mother's death is the way some people react and realistic. They cannot bring themselves to enter the room or change anything in the room because of the pain it would bring and they want to keep the memory as it is. Call it denial. But entering the room would be admitting that they are gone.

The game itself gives different aspects on death. The Quanri view is once the spirit is gone the body does not matter. It does not matter if you bury it, burn or leave it for creatures to devour.

We are projecting our feelings on death into the game. In DAO it had the traditional way some people view death. In DA2 it showed another way to view it which also happens.

But not different options.  If you don't want to go in fine.  But the option should be there.  It's supposed to be your character reacting how you would.

The way Hawke reacted to seeing his/her mum dying isn't very realistic to most people, well if you had seen your mum turn into Frakenstein and with her skin already decaying. Your mum literally turns into a walking corpse and Hawke touches her!
I would be freaked to my skin and crying seeing my mum like that, I wouldn't be able to touch her. She would be cold, she was already dead.
Anders comment if you bring him along to that quest is just wrong too. 

Who would want to touch a frankenstein corpse? Even if it was your mum, who would actually touch a corpse? 

[Realmzmaster]

Aaleel wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The way Hawke reacted after his mother's death is the way some people react and realistic. They cannot bring themselves to enter the room or change anything in the room because of the pain it would bring and they want to keep the memory as it is. Call it denial. But entering the room would be admitting that they are gone.

The game itself gives different aspects on death. The Quanri view is once the spirit is gone the body does not matter. It does not matter if you bury it, burn or leave it for creatures to devour.

We are projecting our feelings on death into the game. In DAO it had the traditional way some people view death. In DA2 it showed another way to view it which also happens.

But not different options.  If you don't want to go in fine.  But the option should be there.  It's supposed to be your character reacting how you would.

That would be asking the developers to consider every possibility of how the character should react which is not always possible. They may have also thought that the death scene (rightly or wrongly) covered most of that emotional discharge.

The samething happen in DAO, Take the human noble for example, how often in dialog did you hear him bring up his.her presumed dead brother or his/her mother and father. Where was the mourning scene. It rarely came up. I can also go back to the BG series with the Bhalspawn's mentor. Bioware toches upon the subject it never dwells on it.

[Realmzmaster]

Chiramu wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The way Hawke reacted after his mother's death is the way some people react and realistic. They cannot bring themselves to enter the room or change anything in the room because of the pain it would bring and they want to keep the memory as it is. Call it denial. But entering the room would be admitting that they are gone.

The game itself gives different aspects on death. The Quanri view is once the spirit is gone the body does not matter. It does not matter if you bury it, burn or leave it for creatures to devour.

We are projecting our feelings on death into the game. In DAO it had the traditional way some people view death. In DA2 it showed another way to view it which also happens.

But not different options.  If you don't want to go in fine.  But the option should be there.  It's supposed to be your character reacting how you would.

The way Hawke reacted to seeing his/her mum dying isn't very realistic to most people, well if you had seen your mum turn into Frakenstein and with her skin already decaying. Your mum literally turns into a walking corpse and Hawke touches her!
I would be freaked to my skin and crying seeing my mum like that, I wouldn't be able to touch her. She would be cold, she was already dead.
Anders comment if you bring him along to that quest is just wrong too. 

Who would want to touch a frankenstein corpse? Even if it was your mum, who would actually touch a corpse? 

At the funerals I attend people go up and kiss the corspe after it has been prepared by the mortician. Hawke saw his mother not a Franenstein monster. It would also be his/her last chance to speak to her. Anders was not out of line with his comment. He knew if Hawke thought he had the power Hawke would ask Anders to keep her alive. Anders simply removed that possibility, by telling Hawke it was beyond his power and knowledge.

[SafetyShattered]

I agree that the death scenes in the beginning of the game weren't really emotional for me. But I would'nt see this game was not emotional at all. That seems a bit overly critical to me.
*SPOILER
I mean the part when your mother died was pretty emotional. Also in the deep roads if you brought Bethany and she died that part was emotional, at least for me anyway. Maybe I'm just to sensitive...

[MorrigansLove]

Music is vital in a significant death scene, and DA2 just recycled the same "sad" song over and over again when they wanted the audience to feel "sad".

[Hatchetman77]

WilliamShatner wrote...
Your mother dies in badly-advised and concieved Evil Dead homage that evokes shock that anyone could thing this was a good idea rather than the natural emotional response.

That was supposed to evoke SHOCK!!!  I thought it was one of the funniest parts of the game.  I LOVE DA2. I give BioWare props for making a game that is an obvious parody of its other games.  It was done perfectly, with the voice actors playing it straight.  It reminded me of Airplane!   

[Alright-Television]

Yeah, the ending to the serial killer quest is funny like hell.

[Aaleel]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The way Hawke reacted after his mother's death is the way some people react and realistic. They cannot bring themselves to enter the room or change anything in the room because of the pain it would bring and they want to keep the memory as it is. Call it denial. But entering the room would be admitting that they are gone.

The game itself gives different aspects on death. The Quanri view is once the spirit is gone the body does not matter. It does not matter if you bury it, burn or leave it for creatures to devour.

We are projecting our feelings on death into the game. In DAO it had the traditional way some people view death. In DA2 it showed another way to view it which also happens.

But not different options.  If you don't want to go in fine.  But the option should be there.  It's supposed to be your character reacting how you would.

That would be asking the developers to consider every possibility of how the character should react which is not always possible. They may have also thought that the death scene (rightly or wrongly) covered most of that emotional discharge.

The samething happen in DAO, Take the human noble for example, how often in dialog did you hear him bring up his.her presumed dead brother or his/her mother and father. Where was the mourning scene. It rarely came up. I can also go back to the BG series with the Bhalspawn's mentor. Bioware toches upon the subject it never dwells on it.

It would be asking the developers to consider two possibilities, do you or don't you want to go in your mother's room.  I don't see how hard it would have been to let you walk into a room, have a few items that you could interact with that would lead to pictures of you and your mother (family), or a short scene.  Would not have been that hard at all.

DA:O you're chased from your home, thrown into the Wardens, thrown right into battle, and then everything falls apart.  Your life was less than stable after that point.  Even still you bring up your parents deaths in several conversations, and how they were murdered. 

[Slayer299]

DA2 had emotions, just not attached ones to the scenes Bioware wanted.

You are never given the chance to connect to your family in a big or small way over the 4 years you're in Kirkwall and this doesn't count the idiotic loss of sibling A in the prologue. There are no small, normal talks/events/happenings or anything that connected me to Hawke's family for the DR's or your return. Just POOF! it's there and happens

All That Remains wasn't a "haha" moment, but again, outside of 2 small talks I'm supposed to be 'connected' to Leandra and feel horrified at the death of my mother?

[Lakhi]

For me some scenes were emotional (ie Merrill killing marethari then her clan or varric killing bartrand) those scenes felt like a release, because you see in *those* scenes I'd developed some emotive feeling for those characters, when carver and/or Bethany died at the start i didn't know or care who they were, Leandra dying in act 2 was the same deal, she was too distant and the buildup to her death felt too sudden. If you'd seen her dating someone it might have been more of a shock but as it was it just felt cheap.

[Droma]

Alright-Television wrote...

Yeah, the ending to the serial killer quest is funny like hell.

yes dying parents never gets old, just too funny! it's like racism.