225 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

yaw wrote...
To add to what was said above, there's a greater sense of urgency in Origins. Whether you're recovering from the death of a childhood friend, or you've betrayed and kicked out of your family, or you've just witnessed your whole family and home go down in flames - there's a more pressing matter: the Blight.

Actually, the game did a poor job at showing this.

[Realmzmaster]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

yaw wrote...
To add to what was said above, there's a greater sense of urgency in Origins. Whether you're recovering from the death of a childhood friend, or you've betrayed and kicked out of your family, or you've just witnessed your whole family and home go down in flames - there's a more pressing matter: the Blight.

Actually, the game did a poor job at showing this.

I agree with KnightofPhoenix. There was no sense of urgency in Origins. A sense of urgency in DAO would have been conveyed if one of your army's became unrecruitable because of being destroyed by darkspawn or the dawkspawn army was destroying cities across the land not just Lothering.

What enemy sits and twiddles it thumbs waiting for your character to gather an army?  If the overland map had shown the Darkspawn marching across the map with over ran territories in red there would be a sense of urgency.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 26 juin 2011 - 05:14 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Realmzmaster wrote...
What enemy sits and twiddles it thumbs waiting for your character to gather an army?  If the overland map had shown the Darkspawn marching across the map with over ran territories in red there would be a sense of urgency.

Perhaps the Archdemon somehow found out about the civil war and thought it best to have Ferelden kill itself while he waited.

Don't ask me how, the darkspawn have shown more strategic and tactical competence than the "good guys".

[Realmzmaster]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
What enemy sits and twiddles it thumbs waiting for your character to gather an army?  If the overland map had shown the Darkspawn marching across the map with over ran territories in red there would be a sense of urgency.

Perhaps the Archdemon somehow found out about the civil war and thought it best to have Ferelden kill itself while he waited.

Don't ask me how, the darkspawn have shown more strategic and tactical competence than the "good guys".

But how did the darkspawn army get to Denerim after the Landsmeet unseen? Why did the good guys think Redcliffe would be the target unless the darkspawn army was setting at Ostagar all that time waiting to pounce? Was the land devoid of scouts?

Parts of DAO really did stretch credibility!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Realmzmaster wrote...
But how did the darkspawn army get to Denerim after the Landsmeet unseen? Why did the good guys think Redcliffe would be the target unless the darkspawn army was setting at Ostagar all that time waiting to pounce? Was the land devoid of scouts?

Parts of DAO really did stretch credibility!

That's just Bioware being very bad at portraying warfare even barely decently.

And because the Wardens just felt useless (barring the finishing blow thing) and their supposed powers from the taint are more trouble than they are worth. The Archdemon can detect 2 Wardens in the middle of nowhere, but 3 Wardens can't detect an entire horde movement. Brilliant.

[Realmzmaster]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
But how did the darkspawn army get to Denerim after the Landsmeet unseen? Why did the good guys think Redcliffe would be the target unless the darkspawn army was setting at Ostagar all that time waiting to pounce? Was the land devoid of scouts?

Parts of DAO really did stretch credibility!

That's just Bioware being very bad at portraying warfare even barely decently.

And because the Wardens just felt useless (barring the finishing blow thing) and their supposed powers from the taint are more trouble than they are worth. The Archdemon can detect 2 Wardens in the middle of nowhere, but 3 Wardens can't detect an entire horde movement. Brilliant.

So true!

[Lord_Valandil]

KnightofPhoenix, I take my hat off to you, sir.
You really, really surprise me. I haven't noticed those plot holes before.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

KnightofPhoenix, I take my hat off to you, sir.
You really, really surprise me. I haven't noticed those plot holes before.

It's hard to miss when you have something like that going:

Alistair: "Whatever happens I guarantee you they won't be taking us by surprise"

*few seconds later, genlock rogues take us by surprise*

<_< at Alistair

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 juin 2011 - 06:09 .

[Harid]

Bioware didn't and haven't really shown the positive sides to being a Warden, outside of immunity to the taint, and plot armor can save you from that.

But Wardens. . .aren't really any better at killing darkspawn than anyone else (equally skilled).

At least as far as we've been shown. Seems to be all. . .negative, and even more so thanks to KoP.

[Lord_Valandil]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

KnightofPhoenix, I take my hat off to you, sir.
You really, really surprise me. I haven't noticed those plot holes before.

It's hard to miss when you have something like that going:

Alistair: "Whatever happens I guarantee you they won't be taking us by surprise"

*few seconds later, genlock rogues take us by surprise*

<_< at Alistair

I have to admit that I always thought it was kind of strange that the Darkspawn horde erased Lothering from the map...and then they just stopped.
When I noticed that I couldn't return to Lothering, I was like "Oh crap...they can destroy little towns!". But after I realized that they wouldn't do anything else, I lost all sense of fear, hehehe.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Harid wrote...
At least as far as we've been shown. Seems to be all. . .negative, and even more so thanks to KoP.

That's what I do. Point out negatives, and make them sound even worse.

The only positive thing Wardens might have is the power of the blood thing. Which is why I like Avernus so much. Seems to be the only Warden sensible enough to realize how crappy they are and how badly they need improving.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lord_Valandil wrote...
I have to admit that I always thought it was kind of strange that the Darkspawn horde erased Lothering from the map...and then they just stopped.
When I noticed that I couldn't return to Lothering, I was like "Oh crap...they can destroy little towns!". But after I realized that they wouldn't do anything else, I lost all sense of fear, hehehe.

They already made the Bannorn idiotic for fighting Loghain while darkspawn are amassing just south of them. So the civil war would be botched if the darkspawn didn't stop and pressed on invading. But really, this is just trying to make two main things co-exist, the blight and a civil war, when it doens't make that much sense (and the game didn't have time to really develop either).

Imo, I would have preferred Origins a lot more if it was only about the Civil war. But that would be asking to radically change it.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Realmzmaster wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

yaw wrote...
To add to what was said above, there's a greater sense of urgency in Origins. Whether you're recovering from the death of a childhood friend, or you've betrayed and kicked out of your family, or you've just witnessed your whole family and home go down in flames - there's a more pressing matter: the Blight.

Actually, the game did a poor job at showing this.

I agree with KnightofPhoenix. There was no sense of urgency in Origins. A sense of urgency in DAO would have been conveyed if one of your army's became unrecruitable because of being destroyed by darkspawn or the dawkspawn army was destroying cities across the land not just Lothering.

What enemy sits and twiddles it thumbs waiting for your character to gather an army?  If the overland map had shown the Darkspawn marching across the map with over ran territories in red there would be a sense of urgency.

That would've been a really cool idea to play with. Out of the three main factions (Mage, Elf, Dwarf), you can only choose two, with the third one being wiped out or unobtainable. The factions themselves and the way you solved their problems should've come into focus at Landsmeet too. I mean, would the nobility just blindly follow the advice of someone who slaughtered everyone on his/her playthrough, conversely what about a person who doesn't have the gall to make the tough decisions (pacifist). Your companions, important NPCs, various skill checks and interaction with Redcliffe and the Nobility could determine your success.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

They already made the Bannorn idiotic for fighting Loghain while darkspawn are amassing just south of
them. So the civil war would be botched if the darkspawn didn't stop and pressed on invading. But really, this is just trying to make two main things co-exist, the blight and a civil war, when it doens't make that much sense (and the game didn't have time to really develop either).

Imo, I would have preferred Origins a lot more if it was only about the Civil war. But that would be asking to radically change it.

What they could've done is tied the Civil War to your success in the Landsmeet. Political tensions with the room for influencing and ego stroking. If you were successful in convincing the Bannorn to support you over Loghain, then Ferelden swings in your favor and you launch an offensive against the Darkspawn. Deep Roads, Ostagar, whereever. The point is that you are on the offensive.

If things did not go your way, or if there is divided opinion, Civil War erupts. You retreat to wherever is safe (likely Redcliffe) and you turn your focus to either a) winning the Civil War or defeating the Archdemon.

a) Sees you playing out a different set of missions whereby you visit various cities and nobles, convincing them that your way is the only way. With enough support, you then face Loghain in Denerim, after which you repel a final Darkspawn push and defeat the Archdemon in similar circumstances to the original game. The downside to this is that one of your major allies were wiped out by the Darkspawn horde. Cinematics of precious and close NPCs getting wasted ensue.

Sees you let's say, raiding the Deep Roads (new set) in a final expedition to find and destroy the Archdemon. In this path, you learn a lot more about your party and darkspawn lore, with your allies providing reinforcements. The downside to this is that various human settlements were caught unawares and were ravaged by the Blight. Denerim, Redcliffe, etc. No survivors. Ferelden's power structure's are broken so as a country, they're screwed. But the groups of people who you helped and got to know, all survived.

Of course, that requires a much bigger game and more time than what was given...

Modifié par mrcrusty, 26 juin 2011 - 06:33 .

[Harid]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Harid wrote...
At least as far as we've been shown. Seems to be all. . .negative, and even more so thanks to KoP.

That's what I do. Point out negatives, and make them sound even worse.

The only positive thing Wardens might have is the power of the blood thing. Which is why I like Avernus so much. Seems to be the only Warden sensible enough to realize how crappy they are and how badly they need improving.

But as far as I know, the power of Blood was exclusive to your warden.

I thought for sure that when they added specializations for Bethany/Carver, if they are Grey Wardens, that they would of been based off of the Power of Blood spec.  But either they were lazy which is possible, or those powers are isolated to make your Warden that much more awesome.

So I don't really count the Power of Blood spec until Bioware makes it an actual benefit of joining the Grey Wardens going forward.

[Realmzmaster]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...
I have to admit that I always thought it was kind of strange that the Darkspawn horde erased Lothering from the map...and then they just stopped.
When I noticed that I couldn't return to Lothering, I was like "Oh crap...they can destroy little towns!". But after I realized that they wouldn't do anything else, I lost all sense of fear, hehehe.

They already made the Bannorn idiotic for fighting Loghain while darkspawn are amassing just south of them. So the civil war would be botched if the darkspawn didn't stop and pressed on invading. But really, this is just trying to make two main things co-exist, the blight and a civil war, when it doens't make that much sense (and the game didn't have time to really develop either).

Imo, I would have preferred Origins a lot more if it was only about the Civil war. But that would be asking to radically change it.

True, the origins would have to be overhauled if the game only focused on the civil war. The Grey Warden and Blight plot device gave the game a reason for recruitung the character. Bioware would have to come up with different reasons to get the different races involved in a civil war. Why would the dwarves or elves care about a human civil war for example.
The mages might if it would get them from under the Chantry foot.

[Whatsupnewyork]

www.youtube.com/watch

Why can't we have moments like this in games?

[Sutekh]

Whatsupnewyork wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

Why can't we have moments like this in games?

Facial expressions?

I mean this scene could turn quite cheesy if the expressions are off due to computer animations.

[Auroras]

I honestly didn't care all that much when Duncan died. He conscripted my Warden, took her away from her dying parents, and seemed emotionally distant from everyone. I commend the writers on that -- he was supposed to be a Warden Commander, not a friend. They succeeded in painting him in that role. But I found myself caring more when that scared soldier backed up into his friend's sword during the opening Ostagar battle sequence... yeah.

I did, however, care when Leandra died. I cried a little.

[Estelindis]

Whatsupnewyork, the event that you found disappointing had me in tears. Right up to the end, I genuinely thought I was going to be able to save the character in question. It had a huge impact for me. (Tellingly, the only other video game moment that I can recall making me cry was in Mass Effect 2, during another quest when we failed to save a character that I expected to live. Maybe this type of situation just appeals to me inherently.)

It may be constructive to ask which elements I found effective; if you wish, you can compare them with what you disliked. However, since this is a no spoiler forum, I will just say that the conversation at the climax of the quest and the "comfort scene" afterwards with one's romantic partner (if any) were the most affecting for me. That shouldn't give away anything to anyone who hasn't gotten that far yet. You're free to PM me if you want to have a proper conversation with more details, however.

[RougeSu11y]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
But how did the darkspawn army get to Denerim after the Landsmeet unseen? Why did the good guys think Redcliffe would be the target unless the darkspawn army was setting at Ostagar all that time waiting to pounce? Was the land devoid of scouts?

Parts of DAO really did stretch credibility!

That's just Bioware being very bad at portraying warfare even barely decently.

And because the Wardens just felt useless (barring the finishing blow thing) and their supposed powers from the taint are more trouble than they are worth. The Archdemon can detect 2 Wardens in the middle of nowhere, but 3 Wardens can't detect an entire horde movement. Brilliant.

if you notice and actually want to put some thought into this we know they have to be fairly close to sense them and do really think ever genlock rogue is now able to be seen i mean of course they know there around but its not like they can see them tilll boom ambush since that would make that whole enemy useless.also last time i check the warden and alistar had more important things to do then follow the horde while trying not to be seen and killed.


also i feel closer to the pigeon shale crushes then to anyone in d.a.2

[Whatsupnewyork]

Hopefully Bioware will rectify DA2's problems in the near future.

[MorrigansLove]

Agreed.

[Shadow6773]

The game was not emotional for me because I did not have the time invested in the characters to care. I blame this on the lack of conversations and time spent getting to know them and doing relevant missions aka bonding. The time skips did no favors as I'd rather experience things firsthand then have a game tell me, in a most abstract way..."years have passed, you have all these experiences you know nothing about and btw you should like/hate this companion more now because of the imaginary experiences you had. Its a really cheesy plot device thats bogus as visually nothing really changes at all.. which is not different for the rest of the game anyhow. As far as the conversations..I'm sorry but half a dozen short conversations over a few "game years" is not enough for me to bond with anyone. The need for plot to advance to allow me to talk to companions and not whenever I want is a cop out and is the price we paid I belief for a voiced main character adding in all that expensive dialog. I gotta say DAO overall had a much better cast and I liked those characters more. Most of DA2's cast seemed more one dimensional then DAO's. Last but not least,I just don't like the game for reasons everyone on the forums have beat to death mostly, I've tried but have never been able to go through it more then the one time. Its pure torture.

[Chiramu]

Whatsupnewyork wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

Why can't we have moments like this in games?

One of the BEST moments of The Lord of the Rings , Sam is pure awesome!