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[Gunderic]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

rwscissors702 wrote...

Give Fenris to Danarius is good for all involved.
Danarius has Fenris.
Fenris has no pesky memories to bother him anymore.
Varania gets her apprenticeship.
Hawke is still a nobody... well, you can't win them all I suppose.

And Fenris can't harm people when he's capitve. He's a living weapon by that point.

Ironically, he'd get the same treatment he wants for mages.

He probably killed more people in his time with Hawke than all of the mages from the Kirkwall Circle combined.

Don't really get how what he does wouldn't be considered 'magic'.

[TEWR]

For all you know Danarius would renege on his deal with Varania and kill her or just cast her aside. He got what he wanted. He has no obligation to keep his end of the bargain.

[rwscissors702]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

He'll probably just run away again. He isn't Tranquiled, just brainwashed.

Maybe, maybe not. If Danarius kepps a better handle on Fenris this time I think ut unlikely. Remember it was an accident that led to Fenris thinking of escape.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

rwscissors702 wrote...

Give Fenris to Danarius is good for all involved.
Danarius has Fenris.
Fenris has no pesky memories to bother him anymore.
Varania gets her apprenticeship.
Hawke is still a nobody... well, you can't win them all I suppose.

And Fenris can't harm people when he's capitve. He's a living weapon by that point.

Ironically, he'd get the same treatment he wants for mages.

.............

I cannot believe this. Seriously. I won't even argue at this point. 

Pardon me while I bask in my disbelief. <_<

[DreamerM]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Fenris willingly sold himself for his sister. And yea I see where she is coming from. She's an elf. If she is not a magister, she is nothing. And if Fenris does not come back, then Danarius owes her nothign and could jus tdecide to kill her out of spite.

For me, seeing an elf becoming a magister beats Fenris' happiness. At least I would have felt Hawke accomplished something remotely useful. 
And Orana suffering was an exception. Because surprise, the game needs more madness.

Bad thing for Fenris sure, and I can shed a tear or two. But for me, the elf losing her unique career is more tragic to me.

As repressed as they are in other parts of Thedas, elves still make some powerful mages, and Tevinter is a place where the most powerful mage gets the most cake. What makes you think there would be anything "unique" about Sister-Forget-Her-Name's career?

And on the flipside, what makes you think Denarius ever intended to honor his promise to take her on as his apprentice? Maybe he just told her that so she would help him bait a trap for his Lost Property, and once he had his "investment" back, he would have slapped a collar on her, or expelled her, or just killed her outright?

....I'll say this though, one of the "King Alistair" type sidequests in DA:3 SHOULD be dependant on having a DA:2 import where you sold Fenris back to Denarius. You get a subquest were you see Denarius, with his intimidating-looking pet in tow, glowing and phasing through walls to impress the Orlesians.

[Foolsfolly]

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yes, slaver yis nto the nightmare it's made out to be. Slavery is such a vast word, there are many forms of slavery. In some parts of the world, slaves ended up ruling.

What better way? What Writer Redux said? He came up with it from hsi head, it's not in the game.

I already explained what I do in game.

As for excuses for slavery, I'll have none of them. None. No matter what form of slavery. Esp. involving someone like Danarius who oozes predatory abuse. Varania herself is clearly unhappy with her choice.

Hey, I'm at odds with my older brother. Would I sell him into slavery to further my career? (And my brother beat me for years) No, I couldn't live with myself if I did.

Well you're also not Tevinter.

Tevinter seems to be a Social Darwinist's wet dream. Whatever it takes to get ahead, whatever the costs. Actually, that also sounds like the Wardens....

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

For all you know Danarius would renege on his deal with Varania and kill her or just cast her aside. He got what he wanted. He has no obligation to keep his end of the bargain.

Sure. Anythign is possible.

But both Varania and Hawke made a deal with Danarius. They set terms and of course, next comes trust (which is vindicated). Your scenario with Fynriel is much different and mroe farfetched.

[TEWR]

And for all we know he'll remember his memories that are "gone".


You can break the chain of memories, but the links themselves will always be there, forever buried in your mind, awaiting the day when they'll link together again


He remembered his past with Varania when he said he couldn't remember anything about a family prior to that.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

If your career can present a new hope for your entire people that are oppressed. Then yea, I dont' see why not. Especially if he sold himself for you in the first place.

Because I have a conscience. And feelings. And standards. I won't sell myself to the devil (Not even religiously speaking) for earthly gain.

[Foolsfolly]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

And for all we know he'll remember his memories that are "gone".


You can break the chain of memories, but the links themselves will always be there, forever buried in your mind, awaiting the day when they'll link together again


He remembered his past with Varania when he said he couldn't remember anything about a family prior to that.

Dude it's a magic memories away spell. Who knows how well it works. And if he starts to question too much, BAM! Hit him with another one.

[Icinix]

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

If your career can present a new hope for your entire people that are oppressed. Then yea, I dont' see why not. Especially if he sold himself for you in the first place.

Because I have a conscience. And feelings. And standards. I won't sell myself to the devil (Not even religiously speaking) for earthly gain.

I wouldn't either...

..but then again - there is certainly a lot I could stand to earthily gain...

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

For all you know Danarius would renege on his deal with Varania and kill her or just cast her aside. He got what he wanted. He has no obligation to keep his end of the bargain.

Sure. Anythign is possible.

But both Varania and Hawke made a deal with Danarius. They set terms and of course, next comes trust (which is vindicated). Your scenario with Fynriel is much different and mroe farfetched.

You may find it Farfetch'd, but I don't. I find trusting a magister to keep his word Farfetch'd, but you don't.


That's the wonderful thing about roleplaying! Both of us are Farfetch'd!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...
.............

I cannot believe this. Seriously. I won't even argue at this point. 

Pardon me while I bask in my disbelief. <_<

Many thought the same about us in regards to Loghain.
I hope you didn't complain about them doing what you are doing now.

DreamerM wrote...
As
repressed as they are in other parts of Thedas, elves still make some
powerful mages, and Tevinter is a place where the most powerful mage
gets the most cake. What makes you think there would be anything
"unique" about Sister-Forget-Her-Name's career?

And on the
flipside, what makes you think Denarius ever intended to honor his
promise to take her on as his apprentice? Maybe he just told her that so
she would help him bait a trap for his Lost Property, and once he had
his "investment" back, he would have slapped a collar on her, or
expelled her, or just killed her outright?

Because Magisters are also involved in politics. So Elven Magisters, I assume, can get involved in politics. That's pretty impressive.

He can break his deal, of course. But that would be Vanaria's fault for trusting him and she'd get what was coming to her if she trusted him. And if not, jackpot. But I would not be dealing with outside variables and unknown factors and a slim probability of a better outcome when making the choice. 

[rwscissors702]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

For all you know Danarius would renege on his deal with Varania and kill her or just cast her aside. He got what he wanted. He has no obligation to keep his end of the bargain.

I havn't played through DA2 that many times, and only given Fenris to Danarius on the last run, so I don't know. Is there anything in the game to suggest Danarius is dishonorable?

[Foolsfolly]

I can't believe you just did a pokemon joke.

Isn't this better than sleeping?

(The answer's no but whatever.)

[TEWR]

Foolsfolly wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

And for all we know he'll remember his memories that are "gone".


You can break the chain of memories, but the links themselves will always be there, forever buried in your mind, awaiting the day when they'll link together again


He remembered his past with Varania when he said he couldn't remember anything about a family prior to that.

Dude it's a magic memories away spell. Who knows how well it works. And if he starts to question too much, BAM! Hit him with another one.

I'm basing my comment off of Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories.


More or less the same thing happens to Sora. He forgets everything, but the memories themselves are still there.


Different games, different magic, different everything, but it's what I'm basing it off of.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

If your career can present a new hope for your entire people that are oppressed. Then yea, I dont' see why not. Especially if he sold himself for you in the first place.

Because I have a conscience. And feelings. And standards. I won't sell myself to the devil (Not even religiously speaking) for earthly gain.

Those things tend to matter less when one is forced to fight for crumbs of bread to survive each day

Are you saying that all families that sell their children to survive (and probably make them survive) are devoid of conscience, standards and feelings? 

[DreamerM]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

He remembered his past with Varania when he said he couldn't remember anything about a family prior to that.

....I just imagined a scenario where Hawke sells Fenris back to Denarius, Denarius wipes his mind and restores him to complacency, years later he runs into Hawke again, remembers the betrayal, and next thing you know, he's got Hawke's heart in his hand. For reasons he only understands for a few seconds before Hawke dies and Fenris's whole past fades away.

Fenris gets his memories back, but doesn't get to keep them. He gets them back in a flash, for a few seconds, if you sleep with him after "A Bitter Pill" and he's so traumatized by this that he avoids you for three years.

Fenris remembers his childhood when he looks at his sister, but did he get to keep those memories? Denarius turning up may have shoved them right back out of his head. Dude is a few blocks short of a Lego set.

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
You may find it Farfetch'd, but I don't. I find trusting a magister to keep his word Farfetch'd, but you don't.

Why can't a magister keep his word? Because he's a blood mage? Or a slaver?

Caladrius stays true to his word if you deal with him.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...
.............

I cannot believe this. Seriously. I won't even argue at this point. 

Pardon me while I bask in my disbelief. <_<

Many thought the same about us in regards to Loghain.
I hope you didn't complain about them doing what you are doing now.

Only this is an entirely different situation/choice. (I already addressed it) 

[Foolsfolly]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

And for all we know he'll remember his memories that are "gone".


You can break the chain of memories, but the links themselves will always be there, forever buried in your mind, awaiting the day when they'll link together again


He remembered his past with Varania when he said he couldn't remember anything about a family prior to that.

Dude it's a magic memories away spell. Who knows how well it works. And if he starts to question too much, BAM! Hit him with another one.

I'm basing my comment off of Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories.


More or less the same thing happens to Sora. He forgets everything, but the memories themselves are still there.


Different games, different magic, different everything, but it's what I'm basing it off of.

Eh, whatever works. I'm basing mine off of Wolverine in the X-Men comics. Who sometimes knows his past and other times doesn't but is generally considered best when he doesn't know too much about his past.

Afterall, what's more interesting a guy with no past or a guy who knows how boring his past was?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...
.............

I cannot believe this. Seriously. I won't even argue at this point. 

Pardon me while I bask in my disbelief. <_<

Many thought the same about us in regards to Loghain.
I hope you didn't complain about them doing what you are doing now.

Only this is an entirely different situation/choice. (I already addressed it) 

For them, it's just as disgusting. Indeed, Loghain was involved with the slavery of dozens, if not hundreds. They might feel it more disgusting even.

So in essence, they were nto allowed to do this because you decided they are wrong, and now you are allowed to do this, because you decided you are right?

[Foolsfolly]

DreamerM wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

He remembered his past with Varania when he said he couldn't remember anything about a family prior to that.

....I just imagined a scenario where Hawke sells Fenris back to Denarius, Denarius wipes his mind and restores him to complacency, years later he runs into Hawke again, remembers the betrayal, and next thing you know, he's got Hawke's heart in his hand. For reasons he only understands for a few seconds before Hawke dies and Fenris's whole past fades away.

Fenris gets his memories back, but doesn't get to keep them. He gets them back in a flash, for a few seconds, if you sleep with him after "A Bitter Pill" and he's so traumatized by this that he avoids you for three years.

Fenris remembers his childhood when he looks at his sister, but did he get to keep those memories? Denarius turning up may have shoved them right back out of his head. Dude is a few blocks short of a Lego set.

That's actually really interesting. I can't think of anything that backs that up...but it's an interesting take on the 'living weapon with no memory' thing. (Jason Bourne/Wolverine/etc.)

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
You may find it Farfetch'd, but I don't. I find trusting a magister to keep his word Farfetch'd, but you don't.

Why can't a magister keep his word? Because he's a blood mage? Or a slaver?

Caladrius stays true to his word if you deal with him.

Caladrius stays true to his word because the Warden is about ready to murder him, so he makes a last ditch effort to deal with the Warden. He offers the deal.



Hawke OTOH, is the one who strikes the deal. There is no threat to Danarius' life from either Hawke or Varania, so he has no obligation to hold his end of the bargain.