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[Persephone]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

The biggest problem I have with Loghain being kept alive is the fact that he's a dirty good for nothing traitor.

How many died at Ostagar because of his actions? How many at Redcliffe because of his poor choice of ally? How many at the Circle for the same reason?

His betrayal with a boy who grew up as if it were his own nephew speaks too loudly for me. I cannot let that man live. I cannot allow that man to sacrifice himself to slay the Archdemon.

I have to have Alistair take his head off for the fallen, for the Grey Wardens, and for Cailan.

And here we go again.

Just like in the good old days.

Just briefly, it's a great way to start Alistair's reign. It shows he can fight his own battles not have to rely on the Warden or Eamon for everything. It sends a strong message and can easily be turned into propanda as the rightful king cutting down the usurper tyrant.

That's just a cool way to start Alistair's reign. A strong footing for the rest of his rule.

Only Alistair doesn't do it for those reasons. *Battles inner Loghain fangirl valiantly*

And killing the man who is a hero to his people......no, except in politically inept Bioware scenarios, I don't see that going over well.

[jlb524]

Ryzaki wrote...

 Yeah I can't spare Loghain. 

He supported Howe. My Wardens are all Couslands at heart (or city elves) and as far as they're concerned Loghain can go to hell. 

And the thought of betraying someone they like for that?  Hello Loghain! Meet sword! OFF WITH HIS HEAD! 

That makes sense.

My Warden is a Circle Mage so...

[TEWR]

We only hear about Loghain being a great general. I would like to see it in action. Ostagar was purposely set up by Loghain to be a failure.

[Ryzaki]

No one seemed to care that much about the hero being killed in my DAO/Da2 games.
Huh. Guess they moved on. Especially considering the man almost got everyone killed.

[Harid]

I never support slavers. . .even in my evil playthroughs. It is the line I cannot cross.

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

 Yeah I can't spare Loghain. 

He supported Howe. My Wardens are all Couslands at heart (or city elves) and as far as they're concerned Loghain can go to hell. 

And the thought of betraying someone they like for that?  Hello Loghain! Meet sword! OFF WITH HIS HEAD! 

Not in front of his daughter, forget it. My Cousland (My Canon Warden) watched her father die. She will never inflict that upon another living soul. (Never mind her other, less humane reasons)

[TEWR]

Hmmm.... we're straying away from insane mage plotlines and going into Loghain territory. That means potential thread locking I believe.



Bioware retcon Orsino!


There we're still on topic.

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

No one seemed to care that much about the hero being killed in my DAO/Da2 games.
Huh. Guess they moved on. Especially considering the man almost got everyone killed.

Hence the "politically inept Bioware scenarios" reference.

Look at what killing the "tyrant" Caesar caused. 

[Ryzaki]

Persephone wrote..
Not in front of his daughter, forget it. My Cousland (My Canon Warden) watched her father die. She will never inflict that upon another living soul. (Never mind her other, less humane reasons)

She could've left the room if she wished. She didn't so oh well. *shrugs* Besides she's not the first nor would she be the last to see her parents die infront of her. 

My Cousland was less than sympathetic considering she had to watch her dad bleed out. 

[Ryzaki]

 

Persephone wrote...
Hence the "politically inept Bioware scenarios" reference.

Look at what killing the "tyrant" Caesar caused. 

Or it could've been you know people preferring the gal who saved their lives over the one who plunged the country into civil war and nearly had them destroy one another.  

I'm pretty sure Ceasar's country wasn't facing a horde coming to destroy the land. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 juin 2011 - 09:19 .

[Persephone]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Hmmm.... we're straying away from insane mage plotlines and going into Loghain territory. That means potential thread locking I believe.



Bioware retcon Orsino!


There we're still on topic.

I'm all for retconning Orsino. Except for giving us one of Sunshine's BEST scenes, that Harvester move borders on ridiculously stupid.

[jlb524]

It's always practically better to spare Loghain though.

[Ryzaki]

Orsino desperately needs to be retconned so he has a damn brain.

What on earth was he studying turning into a harvester for? What on earth would be the use ofthat?

[Ryzaki]

jlb524 wrote...

It's always practically better to spare Loghain though.

In your opinion. 

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

 

Persephone wrote...
Hence the "politically inept Bioware scenarios" reference.

Look at what killing the "tyrant" Caesar caused. 

Or it could've been you know people preferring the gal who saved their lives over the one who plunged the country into civil war and nearly had them destroy one another.  

I'm pretty sure Ceasar's country wasn't facing a horde coming to destroy the land. 

Caesar "caused" a civil war himself.

He was killed by those who had been on the losing side. It doesn't require a horde of ineptly redesigned orcs to lead to tyranicide going wrong.

[jlb524]

Ryzaki wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

It's always practically better to spare Loghain though.

In your opinion. 

How is it not?

[Foolsfolly]

Killing him while his honor was in doubt, with papers in hand that prove he was selling Fereldens to foreign interests, allowing blood mages to poison arls, overstepping Chantry law, and generally being overly paranoid about phantom Orelsians while the country falls to the Blight he doesn't believe exists.

I mean, if you're gonna kill a hero of the people...killing him at that moment right before you defend Denerim, slay an archdemon, and stop a Blight is the best time to do it.

And Ali's reasons are as clear as day. Loghain's responsible for Duncan's death and the persecution of the Wardens while Ferelden falls to a Blight.

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...


It's an informed ability. Every plan Loghain hatches in Origins fails miserably. He's like the anti-Xanatos; even when he wins he loses.

Because they were political. He is something else on the battlefield.

But he shows epic lack of foresight which one assumes is important in strategy. And he has no judge of character. He helps Jowan, Uldred, and Howe.

And the only time we see him on a battlefield he's running away. It's very much an informed ability since we never see any evidence of his strategic mind. He's quite good at rallying troops though, his speech at the Landsmeet was quite good.

[Ryzaki]

jlb524 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

It's always practically better to spare Loghain though.

In your opinion. 

How is it not?

That sounds more like a statement of fact. But if you meant that opinion wise my bad. 

[DreamerM]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Exactly, which is why I found it surprising personally.

So is this some Elven Empowerment thing? Lets make this girl a magister....why? Do you think she'll be that fabled "good" magister, the one who doesn't use blood magic or own slaves or sacrifice people on alters to power dark spells?

Considering that she'd only get to that place by sacrificing her own brother, what makes you think she'll be any less ruthless then....I guess the average magister?

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Never, because when I involved myself in this, I didnt' risk my life.

I do not follow this logic. Fenris trusted you, he respected you, and you betrayed him at the deepest level by selling him back to the master he loathed, and then you say you "didn't risk your life?" What do lives have to do with it? The life at stake is his, and you ruined it.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Her career is reason enough for me, even as a 50/50 deal.

You give Denarius a 50/50 chance of honoring his word? Not the odds I'd put on it. Not at all.

Why does her "career" mean so much to you?

[TEWR]

Ryzaki wrote...

Orsino desperately needs to be retconned so he has a damn brain.

What on earth was he studying turning into a harvester for? What on earth would be the use ofthat?

We actually addressed that way back. Page 3? 4? 5? I don't know, we've moved so fast now.

[Ryzaki]

Persephone wrote...
Caesar "caused" a civil war himself.

He was killed by those who had been on the losing side. It doesn't require a horde of ineptly redesigned orcs to lead to tyranicide going wrong.

 

Oh boy. Nevermind. I'm not getting into this arguement. 

[erilben]

jlb524 wrote...

It's always practically better to spare Loghain though.

It's not. Alistair leaves before Loghain is put through the Joining. It's not guaranteed Loghain will survive. What if Loghain dies? Then you've gone down from 3 Wardens to 2 Wardens. Even if Loghain survives, you are still not better off.

Modifié par erilben, 26 juin 2011 - 09:23 .

[TEWR]

I have no issue with sparing Loghain because Alistair gets over his anger at The Warden and forgives him by the time Awakening rolls around. They're buddies again!