211 réponses à ce sujet

[Katamariguy]

atheelogos wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

atheelogos wrote...
Hmmmm Its in their best interest to hush things up and even though they know the Reapers are coming to kill everyone?... They are letting them blind side us.... to avoid panic?..... They are setting us up for defeat so mobs don't form...
Makes sense to me.<_<

How does causing mass panic among the general public help prepare for the reapers?

It doesn't and I wasn't arguing that it did. I'm saying there are steps they could have taken in secret to build up the war effort.

But doing nothing just to avoid a mob from forming is a sure fire way to get a lot of people killed... which is what will happen in ME3 unfortunately.

Who said they aren't doing anything in secret?

[Han Shot First]

I think it is likely that people see one civilization destroyed only for another one to have seemingly risen to replace it, and come to the conclusion that civilization B destroyed civilization A. They think the Reapers are a myth, and so they never suspect them.

[General User]

Lord Aesir wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

General User wrote...

If it were just "somebody"? 
-No.  I'd think they were a crackpot.


If it were some of the top military and political leaders on Earth?  And we had one of these things on video?  And if I had a personal secret agent who was investigating the matter and keeping me abreast of the investigation everystep of the way?  And if one of the organic AI's I was being warned about actually attacked, and destoryed most of the military before being just barely stopped by as much chance anything else?
-Yes, then I would be inclined to believe.

Fair enough. I agree that with all of the evidence presented the council should have realised. What I was trying to say was that periodic extinctions have happened here in real life, so the extinctions themselves are not undisputable proof of a supernatural threat.

  I've gone through this in a previous post.  The only evidence they have points to Sovereign being a very advanced ship, nothing else, nothing that even proves it was an AI let alone one of many waiting in dark space.

Nothing proves Sovereign was a geth construct either (indeed rather the opposite is indicated), yet the Council chose to believe that.

What we are left with is several of the most prominent people in the galaxy, including the Council’s own agent sent to investigate the matter, who put forward a version and explanation of events that is corroborated by every single piece of physical and recorded evidence that is available; yet the Council chooses to embrace an explanation that is decidedly lacking in support and dismisses several key pieces of physical and testimonial evidence, simply because that theory fits their prejudices and preferences.

How can that be seen as anything other than foolish?

Modifié par General User, 25 juin 2011 - 11:45 .

[Ianamus]

SwobyJ wrote...

Salarians have been shown, in some way, to be aware of the Reapers.

It does seem like elements of the Turian military are aware of the Reaper threat.

And as for Asari, the Asari councilor is the most sympathetic towards you.

I think we will have more allies available than many think.

I think that although the council itself dosen't officially accept the Reaper threat, the individual species are aware of it. To add to your list:

If Wrex is leader of the Krogan then he must have told them about the Reapers, so they are aware of them.

The Quarians are aware that Reapers have the ability to control the Geth, and were interested in them (in the ME novel ascension) so they officially accept that the Reapers are a powerful AI independant of the Geth.

The true Geth know about the Reaper threat.

Elements of the Human government recognise the Reaper threat.

And that's not even mentioning the many individuals from the other citadel races who are aware. Even though the council does not recognise the threat there are many people who do.

Modifié par EJ107, 25 juin 2011 - 12:43 .

[Zkyire]

ForumPortal wrote...

I'm not reading this novel.

It's 2 paragraphs, you can't be bothered to read 2 paragraphs?

[atheelogos]

Katamariguy wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

atheelogos wrote...
Hmmmm Its in their best interest to hush things up and even though they know the Reapers are coming to kill everyone?... They are letting them blind side us.... to avoid panic?..... They are setting us up for defeat so mobs don't form...
Makes sense to me.<_<

How does causing mass panic among the general public help prepare for the reapers?

It doesn't and I wasn't arguing that it did. I'm saying there are steps they could have taken in secret to build up the war effort.

But doing nothing just to avoid a mob from forming is a sure fire way to get a lot of people killed... which is what will happen in ME3 unfortunately.

Who said they aren't doing anything in secret?

I can't know for certain, of course, but if they were doing something in secret don't you think they would have acted by now? Why wait until after Earth is taken?

[MiniMosher]

OP did you find the planet Vir? I cant remember which system its in but it may be in the minos wasteland, I found it via scan and it was filled with infinite husks and some sort of reaper artifact, I just wondered why no one ever thought ''hey where did our huge mining team go?'' or more to the point ''why are these indigo objects fully functional while every other civilisation has been obliterated with little evidence?'' the only conclusion is that the ones who made the artifacts are still in buisness, but I guessed they dismissed the claim :/

[Heimdall]

General User wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

General User wrote...

If it were just "somebody"? 
-No.  I'd think they were a crackpot.


If it were some of the top military and political leaders on Earth?  And we had one of these things on video?  And if I had a personal secret agent who was investigating the matter and keeping me abreast of the investigation everystep of the way?  And if one of the organic AI's I was being warned about actually attacked, and destoryed most of the military before being just barely stopped by as much chance anything else?
-Yes, then I would be inclined to believe.

Fair enough. I agree that with all of the evidence presented the council should have realised. What I was trying to say was that periodic extinctions have happened here in real life, so the extinctions themselves are not undisputable proof of a supernatural threat.

  I've gone through this in a previous post.  The only evidence they have points to Sovereign being a very advanced ship, nothing else, nothing that even proves it was an AI let alone one of many waiting in dark space.

Nothing proves Sovereign was a geth construct either (indeed rather the opposite is indicated), yet the Council chose to believe that.

What we are left with is several of the most prominent people in the galaxy, including the Council’s own agent sent to investigate the matter, who put forward a version and explanation of events that is corroborated by every single piece of physical and recorded evidence that is available; yet the Council chooses to embrace an explanation that is decidedly lacking in support and dismisses several key pieces of physical and testimonial evidence, simply because that theory fits their prejudices and preferences.

How can that be seen as anything other than foolish?

  Please present this evidence that Sovereign is anything other than an advanced ship.  There is no evidence supportingthe idea that there are other ships like it out there, let alone ancient AIs waiting to destroy them.  All they have is Shepard's word.  So they go with the least preposterous explaination hat doesn't sound like a wacked conspiracy theory, that Sovereign was a Geth.  Does it fit perfectly?  No, but there is certainly nothing pointing the Reaper theory as any better.  Especially when they believe Shpard has fallen for a ruse by Saren.

[Rockworm503]

I'm sorry I know there's a point to this thread but the OP got an HDTV how huge is THAT I can't even remember what this thread was about now!

[Heimdall]

Hxrizon wrote...

 Ya they are i always wondered how much differnt the ME trilogy would work out if Commander shepard...

1. showed them the video transmission from Eden Prime
2. took them to Ilos and let them talk to the VI

I mean its not like Ilos got blown up or anything.

  The VI on Ilos broke, according to Anderson only Shepard ever saw it.

[Manic Sheep]

Hxrizon wrote...

Ya they are i always wondered how much differnt the ME trilogy would work out if Commander shepard...

1. showed them the video transmission from Eden Prime
2. took them to Ilos and let them talk to the VI

I mean its not like Ilos got blown up or anything.

Showing them the video from eden prime wouldn't change anything. It would show them Sovereign but that Sovereign exist was not debated. That it was sentient and a reaper was and nothing in that video proves that its anything more than a ship.
I thought vigil shut down afterwards? I think this was mentioned somewhere in ME2. Tho I wonder if the council not believing you was always planned or not since they mention the reapers at the end of ME1 (I think, might be remembering it wrong)

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 26 juin 2011 - 04:07 .

[Rockworm503]

Lord Aesir wrote...

I actually feel like I'm the only one who thinks the Council's conclusion is a reasonable one.

A: What evidence do they have of the Reapers, truly? Nobody else saw Vigil or the beacons. They only have pieces of Sovereign, good chunks of which were taken by scavengers. And what does that tell them? That Sovereign was a very advannced ship... That's it. Though, given it's company, it would be reasonable to assume it was crewed by AI, probably Geth. There is absolutely no evidence of a machine race waiting to come kill us all, that just sounds like a conspiracy theory. A far more reasonable theory would be that it was or was derived from a piece of Prothean technology that Saren used to solidify his alliance with the Geth.

B: In a lot of threads, I've seen people complain about the Council not trusting Shepard enough. The Council does trust Shepard. They believe he is telling what he believes is the truth. It would be incredibly irresponsible for a group of beings responsible for trillions of lives to take drastic actions based on the unverifiable testimony of one man when the theory that he was manipulated by a charismatic and clever former operative seems far more plausible.

This actually make perfect sense to me.  I'm just imagining the average person making fun of Shepard or anyone who believes him like the conspiracy nuts we have today.

[OdanUrr]

There must be other evidence out there that the Reapers exist, Shepard couldn't possibly have found it all. Indeed, he hasn't, given the events of Arrival. So there are likely other artifacts that point to the Reapers existence, but the Council isn't actively pursuing this line of inquiry. The Salarian Special Task Force operatives must be out on holiday.

[Rockworm503]

Edit:  My post was a stupid political joke forgot thats not allowed here

Modifié par Rockworm503, 26 juin 2011 - 04:23 .

[preacher0057]

Ummm this thread was about the US congress was doing something or not can't remember.

[FrozenShadow]

Hxrizon wrote...

 Ya they are i always wondered how much differnt the ME trilogy would work out if Commander shepard...

1. showed them the video transmission from Eden Prime
2. took them to Ilos and let them talk to the VI

I mean its not like Ilos got blown up or anything.

1) Well video transmission from Eden Prime wouldn't have helped much. Council would have still believed that Sovereign was Geth creatation.

2) That wouldn't have helped either. Vigil was already out of power after speaking with Shep. You got to hear that Council had indeed send some one to Ilos, if you saved Council and you were reinstate as Spectre.

No, what Shepard should have done was recording the whole Vigil conversation and then that could have changed things. 

Now what comes to Council in general, they are just plain idiots and too fixated on that they know everything. Especially Turian Council.

Modifié par Newart, 26 juin 2011 - 04:24 .

[100k]

At several points in ME2, squad mates point out the the Council is "covering up" the Reaper threat. I think that's BW thwacking us over the head with a generous hint that the Council is indoctrinated, or has other plans.

[FrozenShadow]

OdanUrr wrote...

There must be other evidence out there that the Reapers exist, Shepard couldn't possibly have found it all. Indeed, he hasn't, given the events of Arrival. So there are likely other artifacts that point to the Reapers existence, but the Council isn't actively pursuing this line of inquiry. The Salarian Special Task Force operatives must be out on holiday.

Yeah, there were even one dead Reaper drifting in space and only Cerberus found it.

[George-Kinsill]

MiniMosher wrote...

OP did you find the planet Vir? I cant remember which system its in but it may be in the minos wasteland, I found it via scan and it was filled with infinite husks and some sort of reaper artifact, I just wondered why no one ever thought ''hey where did our huge mining team go?'' or more to the point ''why are these indigo objects fully functional while every other civilisation has been obliterated with little evidence?'' the only conclusion is that the ones who made the artifacts are still in buisness, but I guessed they dismissed the claim :/

The planet you are thinking of is Aequitas, in the Fortis system of the Minos Wasteland. Yeah, that was a really weird mission, and now that Arrival is out, it was clearly the same as Object Rho, and if I'm not mistaken, it was just burried and not destroyed, right? What Shepard should do is tell the Council to look under there for evidence of the Reapers (which there is) but I doubt that will happen. But yeah, there seem to be these Reaper artifacts also just laying across the galaxy. There was also some other Reaper artifact in ME1 on Logan, Theseus System in the Attican Beta cluster that turned a bunch of scientists into husks. Why is the council not investigating these Reaper artifacts that show the Geth didn't invent husks? Clearly another ball dropped by the council. 

[Sidney]

100k wrote...

At several points in ME2, squad mates point out the the Council is "covering up" the Reaper threat. I think that's BW thwacking us over the head with a generous hint that the Council is indoctrinated, or has other plans.

...or it is the old staple from every "radiated-animal grown massive" movie of the 1950's where we can't tell people about "the threat" or it'll cause a panic.

[Manic Sheep]

Hxrizon wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Hxrizon wrote...

 Ya they are i always wondered how much differnt the ME trilogy would work out if Commander shepard...

1. showed them the video transmission from Eden Prime
2. took them to Ilos and let them talk to the VI

I mean its not like Ilos got blown up or anything.

  The VI on Ilos broke, according to Anderson only Shepard ever saw it.

I never knew the VI shut down i just remember Anderson saying that only shepard and his crew were there to see it.

www.youtube.com/watch
Shepard asks at 1:48. Anderson says it shut itself down.

[100k]

Sidney wrote...

100k wrote...

At several points in ME2, squad mates point out the the Council is "covering up" the Reaper threat. I think that's BW thwacking us over the head with a generous hint that the Council is indoctrinated, or has other plans.

...or it is the old staple from every "radiated-animal grown massive" movie of the 1950's where we can't tell people about "the threat" or it'll cause a panic.

Maybe. But I think my idea is better.

[TobyHasEyes]

George-Kinsill wrote...

MiniMosher wrote...

OP did you find the planet Vir? I cant remember which system its in but it may be in the minos wasteland, I found it via scan and it was filled with infinite husks and some sort of reaper artifact, I just wondered why no one ever thought ''hey where did our huge mining team go?'' or more to the point ''why are these indigo objects fully functional while every other civilisation has been obliterated with little evidence?'' the only conclusion is that the ones who made the artifacts are still in buisness, but I guessed they dismissed the claim :/

The planet you are thinking of is Aequitas, in the Fortis system of the Minos Wasteland. Yeah, that was a really weird mission, and now that Arrival is out, it was clearly the same as Object Rho, and if I'm not mistaken, it was just burried and not destroyed, right? What Shepard should do is tell the Council to look under there for evidence of the Reapers (which there is) but I doubt that will happen. But yeah, there seem to be these Reaper artifacts also just laying across the galaxy. There was also some other Reaper artifact in ME1 on Logan, Theseus System in the Attican Beta cluster that turned a bunch of scientists into husks. Why is the council not investigating these Reaper artifacts that show the Geth didn't invent husks? Clearly another ball dropped by the council. 

 Prothean artifacts (beacons, data disks) are still around and operational, so the discovery of some other operational old technology isn't an instant pointer to a Reaper-like threat

 And artifacts that make people husks? With these events,  I think the lack of witness' is one point, and probably more importantly the geth use husks as well.. so seeing as the official line is that attacks are the nasty ole Geth that evidence fits the bill (if they don't investigate too deeply, which with half a galaxy to look over probably happens a lot)