129 réponses à ce sujet

[Repearized Miranda]

Hydralisk wrote...

Individual!
Global promotes spamming of one overpowered ability.
Edit: Make the cooldowns on abilites about the same length as ME1, if not longer.

And individual cooldowns wouldn't incite spamming?

If you only had one power to use ... see, then you couldn't do anything but spam it even if it is the least effective. I think that folks are missing the trade off. Why should one instance of Warp take out a foe on Insanity regardless of it's form when I don't need BUT one instance on Casual? You can spam on any setting if you wish. Specialized Ammo is no different though such is very ineffective compared to the powers - again regardless of settings, but the enemy must be accounted for has well. (ie: Scions are lead/specialized lead sponges even on Causal)

I'd propose makng the cooldown the same length for all powers; this isn't necessarily speaking to the global/individual variety because likewise would happen; yet, the overpowered power would still see frequent use.

I believe it comes down to players not wanting to wait which is why they replaced OH with TC, but people don't wanna search for ammo now. Some players are impatient. This is the reason for the malignment of the cover system; however, there perception of it is somewhat skewed.

"I have to wait 20 minutes before shooting again to avoid dying in two seconds!" This is NOT true! you do so because you choose to! Just like you choose to spam powers. I spam Warp not because "it's the most effective, I'd rather not waste lead since I don't have a limitless supply." It's not just the positive to think about.

[Cainne Chapel]

Well from the videos it looks like its going to be global again, but at least we can adjust cooldown on some of the powers as shown using our level up skills which is neat.

I think in one video I saw shepards concussion shot was on a 2 second cool down, while Garrus was at 9seconds.

So if they keep that, i'm all for that kind of cool down in game where we can adjust powers to that level. Faster/ But weaker, Slower/but stronger and so on.

[tjzsf]

short global, longer individual.
Use throw? 2-second cooldown on all powers, with another 2 seconds for throw but other powers are usable.

[ME-ParaShep]

The Twilight God wrote...

Commander Shep4rd wrote...

Which did you prefer? in ME1i loved combo-ing sabotage and damping which would basically shut down enemies it rocked,In ME2 having Global cooldown destroyed abilities like barrier,as a Vanguard i seriously wanted to combo Barrier and charge with the global Cooldown i have to wait for 12 second cooldown while in those 12 seconds 6 of them my barrier is already destroyed and it was so terribel that i sticked to reave adepts were affected too so which do you prefer

adding poll soon.

Globally individual.

Use Tech Armor (12 sec cooldown): All skills go into cooldown
3 seconds later: Throw is usable.
6 seconds later: Warp is usable.
12 seconds later: Tech Armor is usable.

Use Warp (6 sec cooldown): All skills go into cooldown
3 seconds later: Throw is usable.
6 seconds later: Warp and Tech Armor Available are usable.

Use Throw (3 second cooldown): All skills go into cooldown.
3 seconds later: Everything is available.

In a nutshell, skills with longer cooldowns should not impose longer cooldowns on skills with shorter cooldowns.

I also think Stasis, Energy Drain, Reave and Shield/Armor buffs (not including Tech Armor) should be on a individual cooldown that is longer than most. Maybe it's just me, but they seem more like emergency skills. I only try to use them when in a bind. 

You shouldn't even have to activate ammo powers at all. When you click on a squadmate's weapon another icon should be next to the weapon toggle to toggle between their own ammo power and any squad ammo power currently in effect.

I like this person's suggestion. It makes a lot of sense if. If you use a long CD power and have to wait for the specific power's length of CD to be able to use a skill that has a shorter CD than that makes the gameplay slow and dull. Bioware did a nice number on the shooting, melee, and mobility gameplay, but now they have to tweak the powers to make it more fluid flowing. I'd like to be able to use Adrenaline Rush soon after my Concussive Shot or quickly do a quick combo with Warp -> Singularity then finish off with my squadmates powers.

[CroGamer002]

There should be:

• Tech cooldown
• Biotic cooldown
• Ammo powers cooldown
• Unity cooldown

Modifié par Mesina2, 23 juin 2011 - 06:14 .

[dreman9999]

This is the one thing they should change....My Infiltrator needs to set traps while cloaked.

[Warkupo]

Global provided faster game play throughout the entire game and allowed you to develop combination effects with your party, which both increased your tactical decisions as well as providing more relevance to the addition of your squad mates. It helps too that the ME2 powers are balanced a lot better than the ME1 powers where.

That being said, I can see a case for having a mix of both.

Modifié par Warkupo, 23 juin 2011 - 06:42 .

[SandTrout]

Mesina2 wrote...

There should be:

• Tech cooldown
• Biotic cooldown
• Ammo powers cooldown
• Unity cooldown

I like this idea. /sign

It makes more sense this way, as well. There isn't a good reason that a biotic push would prevent the use of overload, they use completely seperate pieces of technology.

[Shotokanguy]

I find it crazy how often I've seen this come up, and INSANE that the poll is so heavily in favor of individual cooldowns.

I mean, I thought it was generally agreed upon that ME2 was much better in terms of gameplay? And part of the reason ME1's combat was the more mindless of the two games was because you could just drop a ton of powers on one enemy and wipe him out immediately? And that being able to use Throw every 2 seconds is better than every 15 seconds?

Come on people!

[Hydralisk]

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Hydralisk wrote...

Individual!
Global promotes spamming of one overpowered ability.
Edit: Make the cooldowns on abilites about the same length as ME1, if not longer.

And individual cooldowns wouldn't incite spamming?

If you only had one power to use ... see, then you couldn't do anything but spam it even if it is the least effective. I think that folks are missing the trade off. Why should one instance of Warp take out a foe on Insanity regardless of it's form when I don't need BUT one instance on Casual? You can spam on any setting if you wish. Specialized Ammo is no different though such is very ineffective compared to the powers - again regardless of settings, but the enemy must be accounted for has well. (ie: Scions are lead/specialized lead sponges even on Causal)

I'd propose makng the cooldown the same length for all powers; this isn't necessarily speaking to the global/individual variety because likewise would happen; yet, the overpowered power would still see frequent use.

I believe it comes down to players not wanting to wait which is why they replaced OH with TC, but people don't wanna search for ammo now. Some players are impatient. This is the reason for the malignment of the cover system; however, there perception of it is somewhat skewed.

"I have to wait 20 minutes before shooting again to avoid dying in two seconds!" This is NOT true! you do so because you choose to! Just like you choose to spam powers. I spam Warp not because "it's the most effective, I'd rather not waste lead since I don't have a limitless supply." It's not just the positive to think about.

I said spamming of one ability! Most of the time ill just spam what ever takes down shields/armor the fastest.
Engineers are no fun in ME2, they lost all there cool utility in ME2 because of global cd.

[Hydralisk]

Shotokanguy wrote...

I find it crazy how often I've seen this come up, and INSANE that the poll is so heavily in favor of individual cooldowns.

I mean, I thought it was generally agreed upon that ME2 was much better in terms of gameplay? And part of the reason ME1's combat was the more mindless of the two games was because you could just drop a ton of powers on one enemy and wipe him out immediately? And that being able to use Throw every 2 seconds is better than every 15 seconds?

Come on people!

No way, the shooter fans think ME2 gameplay better.
ME1 felt more like a TPRPG, while ME2 felt like a TPS with RPG aspects.
Edit: Did you ever play ME1 on Insane as an Engineer? It was so much fun!
The classes actually felt different.

Modifié par Hydralisk, 23 juin 2011 - 06:56 .

[Kakistos_]

Warkupo wrote...

Global provided faster game play throughout the entire game and allowed you to develop combination effects with your party, which both increased your tactical decisions as well as providing more relevance to the addition of your squad mates. It helps too that the ME2 powers are balanced a lot better than the ME1 powers where.

That being said, I can see a case for having a mix of both.

I disagree. To any class that relied on powers, gameplay was slow and boring. The tactical aspect was there but it wasn't huge and hardly made up for the amount of time it took to use powers. And balanced? Powers in ME1 may have been overpowered but Powers in ME2 were nerfed into Tuchanka. Underpowered would be an understatement in my opinion.

[Massadonious1]

Hydralisk wrote...
Individual!
Global promotes spamming of one overpowered ability.

Because no one did this in ME1.

<_<

[Kronner]

Global Cooldown is better...much better.

[Warkupo]

Kakistos_ wrote...

Warkupo wrote...

Global provided faster game play throughout the entire game and allowed you to develop combination effects with your party, which both increased your tactical decisions as well as providing more relevance to the addition of your squad mates. It helps too that the ME2 powers are balanced a lot better than the ME1 powers where.

That being said, I can see a case for having a mix of both.

I disagree. To any class that relied on powers, gameplay was slow and boring. The tactical aspect was there but it wasn't huge and hardly made up for the amount of time it took to use powers. And balanced? Powers in ME1 may have been overpowered but Powers in ME2 were nerfed into Tuchanka. Underpowered would be an understatement in my opinion.

I'm not sure which game you are referring to in your first statement. Powers in ME1 usually took around a full minute to recharge until you started leveling up and getting more and more cooldown, at which point you could very easily floor every encounter. By contrast, most powers in ME2 take about 6 seconds to recharge, which then usually gets reduced to somewhere around 4 seconds by the time you start getting upgrades. I'm inclined to believe that 6 seconds is shorter than 60 seconds, but maybe I'm wrong.

The combat in ME2 is much more consistent, and your character doesn't have as much of a spike in power as you continue leveling. The challenge in ME1 as you continue along never gets anymore difficult, and by the end of it you are entirely capable of flinging boss monsters carelessly about the room without ever having to worry about any sort of reprisal. Similar results for non-biotic classes which can just use Immunity and smash their faces through the rest of the game. If you want the game to be that unchallenging, then ME2 and 3 has an easy mode designed specifically for you. 

Modifié par Warkupo, 23 juin 2011 - 07:05 .

[Shotokanguy]

Hydralisk wrote...

No way, the shooter fans think ME2 gameplay better.
ME1 felt more like a TPRPG, while ME2 felt like a TPS with RPG aspects.
Edit: Did you ever play ME1 on Insane as an Engineer? It was so much fun!
The classes actually felt different.

"The shooter fans" thought it was better huh? Just what does that mean? I'm not a shooter fan dude, I'm a video game fan. I liked what ME2 did better for gameplay.

ME1 felt like a TPRPG...ME2 felt like a TPS RPG...hmm, I think that means ME2 was closer to what the ME series should be.

I played ME1 on Insanity once...I don't remember jack about it, except that enemies had more health.

And lastly, I thought it was generally agreed upon that the classes in ME2 were a lot more unique?

Yeah, I think pretty much everything you just said only is true in Opposite Land.

[Dexi]

Lets say you have 3 powers.

Uber tech bomb! - 12 seconds
Almighty antigravity of death! - 8 seconds
Highly damaging round! - 5 seconds.

You use Uber tech bomb, it remains on CD for its 12 seconds, but Almighty antigravity of death and Highly damaging round only go on their CDs, not 12 seconds ( so AAoD goes on 8 s cooldown and HDR on 5s).

You then use AAoD... CDs:
AAoD - 8 seconds
UTB - 8 seconds
HDR - 5 seconds.

You then use HDR, CDs:
HDR - 5 seconds
UTB - 5 seconds
AAoD - 5 seconds.




What I'm proposing is a system where upon using a power, all powers enter THEIR own cooldown, instead of the cooldown triggered by the power used. That is unless the power has shorter cooldown than another, in this case both cooldowns last like the shorter one.

If there's one bigger, one medium and one small ( like in my example), using the medium one will make the bigger cooldown last also medium, but the small cooldown will be small. If I use the small one, all cooldowns will be like the smaller one.


I hope I explained this right. I don't see huge flaws in the system....


It's like ME2s Global Cooldown system, but if a power has shorter Cooldown than the triggered Global one, it will keep its Cooldown. 

This shouldn't allow almighty-power-spam like in ME1 but should allow power combos. 

Modifié par Dexi, 23 juin 2011 - 07:10 .

[wildannie]

Global was fine.

[l DryIce l]

 I can fully understand why people want individual back, but I think it makes the gameplay less exciting. Sure, it was fun to run into a room and use all your powers you wanted to, but there was definitely a point where you where just overpowered. 

Just imagine doing incinerate on a Krogan, immediately followed by cryo blast. Now you've got an enemy that is supposed to be a threat, but instead was made completely immobile and vulnerable in a matter of seconds. 

With global cooldowns, each decision in combat was fairly important. If you want to use, say, Tech Armor, you'd better be sure the cooldown time is worth it. In general, less powerful moves have shorter cooldowns. I think this is a good thing, and although I think the biotic cooldowns/powers should be tweaked a bit, I definitely think the combat in ME2 was more rewarding. 

[In Exile]

Shotokanguy wrote...

I find it crazy how often I've seen this come up, and INSANE that the poll is so heavily in favor of individual cooldowns.

I mean, I thought it was generally agreed upon that ME2 was much better in terms of gameplay? And part of the reason ME1's combat was the more mindless of the two games was because you could just drop a ton of powers on one enemy and wipe him out immediately? And that being able to use Throw every 2 seconds is better than every 15 seconds?

Come on people!

You can think ME1's stat-based FPS (i.e. 80% of the gameplay) was ass without liking everything about ME2. Shocking, I know.

[Warkupo]

Shotokanguy wrote...

I find it crazy how often I've seen this come up, and INSANE that the poll is so heavily in favor of individual cooldowns.

I mean, I thought it was generally agreed upon that ME2 was much better in terms of gameplay? And part of the reason ME1's combat was the more mindless of the two games was because you could just drop a ton of powers on one enemy and wipe him out immediately? And that being able to use Throw every 2 seconds is better than every 15 seconds?

Come on people!

I hardly consider a poll of 67 people relevant for concluding any sort of global opinion given how large the playerbase for Mass Effect is. It would be like me trying to elect a president based on what one household in America thought.

[Kakistos_]

Warkupo wrote...

Kakistos_ wrote...

Warkupo wrote...

Global provided faster game play throughout the entire game and allowed you to develop combination effects with your party, which both increased your tactical decisions as well as providing more relevance to the addition of your squad mates. It helps too that the ME2 powers are balanced a lot better than the ME1 powers where.

That being said, I can see a case for having a mix of both.

I disagree. To any class that relied on powers, gameplay was slow and boring. The tactical aspect was there but it wasn't huge and hardly made up for the amount of time it took to use powers. And balanced? Powers in ME1 may have been overpowered but Powers in ME2 were nerfed into Tuchanka. Underpowered would be an understatement in my opinion.

I'm not sure which game you are referring to in your first statement. Powers in ME1 usually took around a full minute to recharge until you started leveling up and getting more and more cooldown, at which point you could very easily floor every encounter. By contrast, most powers in ME2 take about 6 seconds to recharge, which then usually gets reduced to somewhere around 4 seconds by the time you start getting upgrades. I'm inclined to believe that 6 seconds is shorter than 60 seconds, but maybe I'm wrong.

The combat in ME2 is much more consistent, and your character doesn't have as much of a spike in power as you continue leveling. The challenge in ME1 as you continue along never gets anymore difficult, and by the end of it you are entirely capable of flinging boss monsters carelessly about the room without ever having to worry about any sort of reprisal. Similar results for non-biotic classes which can just use Immunity and smash their faces through the rest of the game. If you want the game to be that unchallenging, then ME2 and 3 has an easy mode designed specifically for you. 

Perhaps I explained myself incorrectly. Global cooldown may be less time than individual cooldowns but that is still 6 seconds in which you are forced to shoot or remain in cover, plus the time for squad mates to recharge, whereas in ME1 you could resort to another power. As an Adept, this is incredibly frustrating. I don't really see how this makes ME2 more challenging, only slower for power heavy classes. The only thing I found more challenging was that you died faster when you left cover. I don't want the game to be easier, I just don't want Powers to be useless.

[Shepard the Leper]

Funny this is still being debated; fortunately Bioware already knows the superior system

Global >>>>>>>> Individual Cooldowns

[Dexi]

ME-ParaShep wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Commander Shep4rd wrote...

Which did you prefer? in ME1i loved combo-ing sabotage and damping which would basically shut down enemies it rocked,In ME2 having Global cooldown destroyed abilities like barrier,as a Vanguard i seriously wanted to combo Barrier and charge with the global Cooldown i have to wait for 12 second cooldown while in those 12 seconds 6 of them my barrier is already destroyed and it was so terribel that i sticked to reave adepts were affected too so which do you prefer

adding poll soon.

Globally individual.

Use Tech Armor (12 sec cooldown): All skills go into cooldown
3 seconds later: Throw is usable.
6 seconds later: Warp is usable.
12 seconds later: Tech Armor is usable.

Use Warp (6 sec cooldown): All skills go into cooldown
3 seconds later: Throw is usable.
6 seconds later: Warp and Tech Armor Available are usable.

Use Throw (3 second cooldown): All skills go into cooldown.
3 seconds later: Everything is available.

In a nutshell, skills with longer cooldowns should not impose longer cooldowns on skills with shorter cooldowns.

I also think Stasis, Energy Drain, Reave and Shield/Armor buffs (not including Tech Armor) should be on a individual cooldown that is longer than most. Maybe it's just me, but they seem more like emergency skills. I only try to use them when in a bind. 

You shouldn't even have to activate ammo powers at all. When you click on a squadmate's weapon another icon should be next to the weapon toggle to toggle between their own ammo power and any squad ammo power currently in effect.

I like this person's suggestion. It makes a lot of sense if. If you use a long CD power and have to wait for the specific power's length of CD to be able to use a skill that has a shorter CD than that makes the gameplay slow and dull. Bioware did a nice number on the shooting, melee, and mobility gameplay, but now they have to tweak the powers to make it more fluid flowing. I'd like to be able to use Adrenaline Rush soon after my Concussive Shot or quickly do a quick combo with Warp -> Singularity then finish off with my squadmates powers.

Didn't read through the thread before I posted but yeah it's exactly the same idea I had! 


And I think it's the best It's a perfect combination and it solves everything  

[Wintermist]

Definately individual for me.