129 réponses à ce sujet

[RogueState]

Individual for me, it was one of the few things I really disliked about ME2! I love playing biotics so for me it's the same as having multiple weapons to select at anytime as a soldier would be able to do, I found it very restricting to be honest!

[CroGamer002]

Group cooldown

[Dexi]

Nevermind, delete me. 

Modifié par Dexi, 23 juin 2011 - 11:38 .

[atheelogos]

Individual

[Siven80]

They both had good and bad points.

So i suggest combining them.

Every ability has an individual cooldown.

When you use an ability a global cooldown starts so that you cannot use another ability in x secs (WoW uses 1.5....i would suggest 2 or 3 secs for ME), then you can use another ability after the global cooldown finishes.

That way you can use the 12 sec shield cooldown, and then some of your better abilities after the global cooldown while the shield is still on cooldown, unlike ME2 where you would be locked out from every ability for 12 secs.

Also the global cooldown can use the nice cooldown UI that ME2 uses in the middle of the screen.

Best of both worlds imo and not complicated at all.

[Repearized Miranda]

Hydralisk wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Hydralisk wrote...

Individual!
Global promotes spamming of one overpowered ability.
Edit: Make the cooldowns on abilites about the same length as ME1, if not longer.

And individual cooldowns wouldn't incite spamming?

If you only had one power to use ... see, then you couldn't do anything but spam it even if it is the least effective. I think that folks are missing the trade off. Why should one instance of Warp take out a foe on Insanity regardless of it's form when I don't need BUT one instance on Casual? You can spam on any setting if you wish. Specialized Ammo is no different though such is very ineffective compared to the powers - again regardless of settings, but the enemy must be accounted for has well. (ie: Scions are lead/specialized lead sponges even on Causal)

I'd propose makng the cooldown the same length for all powers; this isn't necessarily speaking to the global/individual variety because likewise would happen; yet, the overpowered power would still see frequent use.

I believe it comes down to players not wanting to wait which is why they replaced OH with TC, but people don't wanna search for ammo now. Some players are impatient. This is the reason for the malignment of the cover system; however, there perception of it is somewhat skewed.

"I have to wait 20 minutes before shooting again to avoid dying in two seconds!" This is NOT true! you do so because you choose to! Just like you choose to spam powers. I spam Warp not because "it's the most effective, I'd rather not waste lead since I don't have a limitless supply." It's not just the positive to think about.

I said spamming of one ability! Most of the time ill just spam what ever takes down shields/armor the fastest.
Engineers are no fun in ME2, they lost all there cool utility in ME2 because of global cd.

I know you said that, but  I argued against pretty much saying that EITHER way would promote it. Even if the Engineer, you could still spam, but most would agree that spamming drones isn't all that "fun." Again, it comes down to some players being impatient. If characters were restricted to the least effective power only, they wouldn't bother to play. I will agree that they need to be tweaked somewhat, but I still want every character to be unique.

Maybe this will work. Have all powers have the same amount of CD time; however, I like the emphasis on squad combos as to not make them feel useless. If I could blow through the game myself, what's the point of having squadmates? This isn't the same as playing by yourself because you don't want waste medigel, but that's another issue for another time.

[tenshi_no_hone]

Dexi wrote...

ME-ParaShep wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Commander Shep4rd wrote...

Which did you prefer? in ME1i loved combo-ing sabotage and damping which would basically shut down enemies it rocked,In ME2 having Global cooldown destroyed abilities like barrier,as a Vanguard i seriously wanted to combo Barrier and charge with the global Cooldown i have to wait for 12 second cooldown while in those 12 seconds 6 of them my barrier is already destroyed and it was so terribel that i sticked to reave adepts were affected too so which do you prefer

adding poll soon.

Globally individual.

Use Tech Armor (12 sec cooldown): All skills go into cooldown
3 seconds later: Throw is usable.
6 seconds later: Warp is usable.
12 seconds later: Tech Armor is usable.

Use Warp (6 sec cooldown): All skills go into cooldown
3 seconds later: Throw is usable.
6 seconds later: Warp and Tech Armor Available are usable.

Use Throw (3 second cooldown): All skills go into cooldown.
3 seconds later: Everything is available.

In a nutshell, skills with longer cooldowns should not impose longer cooldowns on skills with shorter cooldowns.

I also think Stasis, Energy Drain, Reave and Shield/Armor buffs (not including Tech Armor) should be on a individual cooldown that is longer than most. Maybe it's just me, but they seem more like emergency skills. I only try to use them when in a bind. 

You shouldn't even have to activate ammo powers at all. When you click on a squadmate's weapon another icon should be next to the weapon toggle to toggle between their own ammo power and any squad ammo power currently in effect.

I like this person's suggestion. It makes a lot of sense if. If you use a long CD power and have to wait for the specific power's length of CD to be able to use a skill that has a shorter CD than that makes the gameplay slow and dull. Bioware did a nice number on the shooting, melee, and mobility gameplay, but now they have to tweak the powers to make it more fluid flowing. I'd like to be able to use Adrenaline Rush soon after my Concussive Shot or quickly do a quick combo with Warp -> Singularity then finish off with my squadmates powers.

Didn't read through the thread before I posted but yeah it's exactly the same idea I had! 


And I think it's the best It's a perfect combination and it solves everything  

I like this too! It's more warm-up than cool-down, and could really work.

If it's a straight choice between ME1 and ME2's systems, I'd have to go global CDs, in ME1 you just sling loads of powers early and then can't do anything for forty seconds, I found ME2 better favoured continuous use of both powers and guns

[Eurhetemec]

The Global Cooldown is a good idea in general sense, but the idea of powers making it cool down for different periods didn't work terribly well in practice in ME2, imho.

I'd prefer a set GCD + longer individual cooldowns. I also think that the cooldown for sustained abilities needs either be far, far shorter, or start when they're turned on, not when they come off.

[Lvl20DM]

As has been mentioned by others, I'd like to see a universal cooldown of 2 seconds or so, but have each power have (in some cases longer) individual recharge rates. I noticed that Adrenaline Rush had a recharge rate of around 8 seconds in the ME3 footage, which is somewhat slower than its base of 5 seconds in ME2. That could point to a new approach to cooldowns.

The longer recharge on some powers in the (admittedly early) demo footage we saw leads me to think they might be experimenting with a different approach to power recharge.

[Xerxes52]

I'd go with a fast global cooldown with individual recharge rates.

[wizardryforever]

I think there are a few things that people are glossing over here.  Yes global cooldowns allow (allow, not encourage) spamming of a single ability, but individual cooldowns allow for "alpha strikes," where you unload everything you've got at once.  The problem with that is that the individual cooldowns were so long that if you did an "alpha strike" you were power-less for a minute or two and had to rely on your guns.  Of course, how powerful the abilities were was also taken into consideration for the length of the cooldown, in both games. 

I don't think the idea of separating types of powers into separate cooldowns is a very good idea.  This gives a rather unfair advantage to the hybrid classes.  Because their powers are split into two different types, they can use their powers twice as often, as long as they use a different type each time.  Take a Sentinel for example.  He could use Overload, then Warp, then Cryoblast, then Throw all in the span of about nine seconds (assuming minimum cooldown), which would leave Adepts and Engineers in the dust, and they're supposed to be specialists!  Add that to having nearly permanent Tech Armor and I really don't think it works well.  Though I think having a separate cooldown for Unity is a good idea.

I prefer global cooldowns myself, largely because there are situations where I may need the same power over and over, and the short cooldowns are more conducive to that, even if they are global.

[CajNatalie]

Global promotes spamming the exact same power over and over and over. Individual promotes spamming EVERYTHING constantly.
There's no simple answer in these two choices.

I would however prefer some kind of mixed system, where when you use one ability, it takes longer to cool down than your other abilities... to encourage diversifying power usage without making in to a SPAM EVERYTHING CONSTANTLY fest where if it's available you must use it.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 23 juin 2011 - 08:18 .

[Repearized Miranda]

CajNatalie wrote...

Global promotes spamming the exact same power over and over and over. Individual promotes spamming EVERYTHING constantly.
There's no simple answer in these two choices.

I would however prefer some kind of mixed system, where when you use one ability, it takes longer to cool down than your other abilities... to encourage diversifying power usage without making in to a SPAM EVERYTHING CONSTANTLY fest where if it's available you must use it.

You'll get that same thing though.

I'll use power B until power A opens up. Therefore, it leading back to using power A despite having powers all the way to Z.

We already get this with Tech Armor. You can't "spam", but you can. (ie: have it break and just run until it recharges) that one. I proposed every power having the same amount of CD time; however, that's essentially the global CD. You say that BW encourages spamming, which leads to the re-balancing argument; however, I doubt anyone wants to use the least effective power/ammo against a particular defense. (shields/armor. incenerate/barrier) If BW encouraged spamming one power, why give us a variety, but again, if we couldn't use BUT one, how exactly will spamming be avoidable?

[CajNatalie]

Like I said... no simple answer. I don't believe my example is even sufficient a solution as I can imagine it as just becoming an alternating spam of two powers.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 23 juin 2011 - 09:29 .

[Commander Shep4rd]

My personal suggestrion

Hybrid between globally individual and group cooldowns.
Power is used all powers go into cooldown however for different types of powers the cooldown is lower
Example

Power used:Warp                                  
Biotic power cooldowns:10 seconds
Other power power cooldowns:5 seconds

Now ill put a guide of Cooldown times For biotic powers.

Power:                     Attraction/Pull   Throw  Shockwave  Singularity  Slam/Warp  Barrier
Power Cooldown:          3s                      4s         8s                    12s              15s             25s
S. type  powers               2s                       3s         4s                     8s                9s               12s
Diff. type powers:           1s                       1s         2s                     4s                 6s                 8s
 
Now if before you go saying how it would only benefit mixed classes well i had also made a special cooldown time for specialist classes Example:
Power         Attraction/Pull   Throw  Shockwave  Singularity  Slam/Warp  Barrier
Vanguard:         3s                        4s           8s                    12s              15s            25s
Adept:                3s                        3s           6s                    8s                 10s            18s 

Now your asking why did i put the cooldowns so long? Well becuase i implemented another feature:
[b]Power Combos
Basically at the power wheel you get to choose two powers to use it at the same time, the order of the powers depends of what order you choosed the powers, for shortcuts pressing two buttons at the same time (controller & keyboard) while enable that feature which is why i made cooldowns long.

Now your asking.How will be i able to tell when a power becomes avaliable if i´m a console player?
we can also implement pop-ups: when a ceratin power becomes avaliable a pop-up with the image of the power appears on the lower left of the screenthat way you will be able to tell when a power is avalaible
So..what do you think?
 

Modifié par Commander Shep4rd, 24 juin 2011 - 08:28 .

[Dave666]

Feeling lazy, so I've just copied and pasted the idea I've been promoting for ages.


What I would absolutely love to see would be a hybrid of ME:1 and ME:2's systems.

Have two cooldowns, a Global Cooldown(GCD) of say 2 seconds and an Individual Cooldown(ICD) for each ability.

In practice it would work like this: (using an Adept as an example)

Lets say that the GCD is 2 seconds and the ICD of Warp is 6 seconds.

Adept sees an enemy with a Barrier and casts Warp, both Cooldowns kick in. For the first 2 seconds you can't use any abilities at all. After the GCD is up you are free to use any ability except Warp (which by this point is now down to 4 seconds until its usable again). All it would take is a small icon at the top or bottom of the screen that 'fills' before vanishing so that the player has an indicator on when they can use the ability again.

Something like this would actively encourage using combinations of powers while discouraging spamming the same abilities over and over again.

[Dangerfoot]

It's really not difficult to balance individual cooldowns.

Global cooldowns don't "make the game more challenging" than individual cooldowns, they just fail to promote use of varied skills.

[Dave666]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I'd like to see a mix of the two. Using an ability like, Overload for example, will have a six second cool down, but only for that ability. Your other abilities would be ready in say, three seconds.

Precisely.  The numbers I gave were as an example only.  Simply to get the general idea across.  It'd need tweaking, I have no doubt.  But IMO it would actively encourage using combo's, rather than ME:2's 'spam your strongest power'.

[I AM KROGAAANNN]

The Twilight God wrote...

Commander Shep4rd wrote...

Which did you prefer? in ME1i loved combo-ing sabotage and damping which would basically shut down enemies it rocked,In ME2 having Global cooldown destroyed abilities like barrier,as a Vanguard i seriously wanted to combo Barrier and charge with the global Cooldown i have to wait for 12 second cooldown while in those 12 seconds 6 of them my barrier is already destroyed and it was so terribel that i sticked to reave adepts were affected too so which do you prefer

adding poll soon.

Globally individual.

Use Tech Armor (12 sec cooldown): All skills go into cooldown
3 seconds later: Throw is usable.
6 seconds later: Warp is usable.
12 seconds later: Tech Armor is usable.

Use Warp (6 sec cooldown): All skills go into cooldown
3 seconds later: Throw is usable.
6 seconds later: Warp and Tech Armor Available are usable.

Use Throw (3 second cooldown): All skills go into cooldown.
3 seconds later: Everything is available.

In a nutshell, skills with longer cooldowns should not impose longer cooldowns on skills with shorter cooldowns.

I also think Stasis, Energy Drain, Reave and Shield/Armor buffs (not including Tech Armor) should be on a individual cooldown that is longer than most. Maybe it's just me, but they seem more like emergency skills. I only try to use them when in a bind. 

You shouldn't even have to activate ammo powers at all. When you click on a squadmate's weapon another icon should be next to the weapon toggle to toggle between their own ammo power and any squad ammo power currently in effect.

Give this man some appreciiation! He just solved the spamming problem with both cooldown configurations! 

Although this partcular cooldown feature isn't devoid of flaws, it is definitely something Bioware should consider testing and implementing.