129 réponses à ce sujet

[Kronner]

m14567 wrote...

I agree, I think the alot of the complaints about the gameplay stem from making a "beat the game on insanity achievement".

That is very true IMHO.

Dave666 wrote...

My favorite class is the Adept and unless I try very hard then I find that due to the GCD I'm using guns almost as much as abilities.
...

That's how the class was designed. Especially on harder difficulty modes, it is a must and it is intended that way.
If you see that as restrictive and want to play a space mage..why don't you play on Veteran (for example)?

[Sidney]

Dave666 wrote...

I don't play the Adept because I want to be using guns half or more of the time.  If I wanted to focus on gun use, I'd choose a Soldier or Infiltrator.  I play the Adept because I want to be power heavy, not gun heavy.

For me GCD gets in the way and IMO doesn't add any tactics.  Just restrictions.

Adepths take it on the chin more due to GCD than others. As a Vanguard it never bothered me much because when I use shockwave and when I use Charge are two different situations so having one or the other charged doesn't matter much - even tossing in my bonus power (Reave) it is still a apples/oranges/pears type thing but for an adept I can see a lot more conflict in the powers.

[hwf]

In Vanguard gameplay I rarely felt restricted by the global cooldown, same with a Soldier or Infiltrator class.

But with the Sentinel as well as the other two less combat-oriented classes of Adept and Engineer? -Ugh.
The Sentinel in particular made me feel like it was mandatory to use the Tech Armor (otherwise you'd be playing a gimped Adept or Engineer) yet the long cooldown made it feel like it stopped you from having fun with low cooldown active abilities for most of the time.

Personally I'd like one shared cooldown for "big" abilities and another shared cooldown for smaller (active?) abilities.
It'd confuse the UI though; the semicircles merging into a whole was kind of a nice and clean indicator.

[zaklaus]

I personally prefer the idea of having the "signature" power of each class on an individual cool down, and all the rest be global.

That way, my vanguard can use charge, then actually be useful with something other than a shotgun when he gets there.

[JedTed]

I'd prefer individual cooldowns but global encourages use of your squadmates powers in conjuction with your own so i'm cool with it.

Also global cooldowns makes more sense within the confines of the universe, even the most powerful biotic character has to take a breather once in a while(even Jack). As for tech powers, well they use energy just like anything else so it makes sense that the user's omni-tool would have to recharge before sending out another Overload or Incinerate blast.

[Dave666]

m14567 wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Dave666 wrote...
...
So now we're left with Charge and Pull.  Is it worth having a Global cooldown for two abilities?

Yeah, although you completly ignore bonus power (big mistake by the way), your point is somewhat valid..for Insanity and maybe Hardcore.

I am pretty sure that most players play on Normal or Veteran, and Global Cooldown does serve a purpose there.

I really hope devs simply build on ME2 and do not rebuild again. ME2's combat (especially Insanity and Hardcore with everpresent enemy protections) was excellent and really fun.

I agree, I think the alot of the complaints about the gameplay stem from making a "beat the game on insanity achievement".

Hardly.

Achievement hunters tend to use the default class.  Bioware's own data shows that more people played Soldier than every other class combined.  

Tell me again how Global Cooldowns affect Soldiers?

[The Twilight God]

m14567 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

<snip>

The Twilight God wrote...

<snip>

Globally individual.

Use Tech Armor (12 sec cooldown): All skills go into cooldown
3 seconds later: Throw is usable.
6 seconds later: Warp is usable.
12 seconds later: Tech Armor is usable.

Use Warp (6 sec cooldown): All skills go into cooldown
3 seconds later: Throw is usable.
6 seconds later: Warp and Tech Armor Available are usable.

Use Throw (3 second cooldown): All skills go into cooldown.
3 seconds later: Everything is available.

In a nutshell, skills with longer cooldowns should not impose longer cooldowns on skills with shorter cooldowns.

I
also think Stasis, Energy Drain, Reave and Shield/Armor buffs (not
including Tech Armor) should be on a individual cooldown that is longer
than most. Maybe it's just me, but they seem more like emergency
skills. I only try to use them when in a bind. 

You shouldn't
even have to activate ammo powers at all. When you click on a
squadmate's weapon another icon should be next to the weapon toggle to
toggle between their own ammo power and any squad ammo power currently
in effect.

<snip>

No, you've
misread. If you use Tech Armor you can use it again in 12 seconds.
Throw becomes available 3 seconds after using Tech Armor. 3 seconds
after that Warp is available and 6 seconds after that Tech Armor is
available. A power still in cooldown does not come out of cooldown
because you perform another power with a significantly shorter
cooldown. There is no global cooldown reset.

Hence, it was described as "Globally Individual".

I bolded the parts, in the bolded throw, it states after you use throw, everything becomes available after 3 seconds.

That's assuming nothing else is in cooldown. Given those conditions, that's how the game works right now if you use throw. 

If you take anything out of what I posted, take this:

"In a nutshell, skills with longer cooldowns should not impose longer cooldowns on skills with shorter cooldowns."

I should not have to wait 12 seconds to use throw  because I used Tech Armor.

[The Twilight God]

Another thing,

I think if squadmates are going to have those ridiculously long cooldowns, their cooldowns need to be strictly individual.

[Tasker]

Individual.

Or failing that - Type.

Global is a bloody stupid idea as why would using a tech power stop you from being able to use biotics?

[Repearized Miranda]

Luc0s wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Hardly.

Achievement hunters tend to use the default class.  Bioware's own data shows that more people played Soldier than every other class combined.  

Tell me again how Global Cooldowns affect Soldiers?

That's true. In ME3, if they'll keep the ME2 gameplay, they should change the difficulty names for Soldier from:
'causal', 'normal', 'veteran', 'hardcore', 'insanity' to:
'boring', 'childsplay', 'cakewalk', 'easy', 'casual'.

Because really, 'insanity' with Soldier felt like 'casual'.

What about Sentinel because that character is also "overpowered". The idea that overpowered = invincibly is erroneous. No matter how much both classes were helped, it still comes down to knowing what to do. To play along though, I guess Insanity for a Sentinel feels like Hardcore. Yet, again, that depends on the player.

[Bocks]

Individual. Global makes no sense and you should be ashamed for supporting it, especially in a singleplayer game.

[Eurhetemec]

Repearized Miranda wrote...

What about Sentinel because that character is also "overpowered". The idea that overpowered = invincibly is erroneous. No matter how much both classes were helped, it still comes down to knowing what to do. To play along though, I guess Insanity for a Sentinel feels like Hardcore. Yet, again, that depends on the player.

In ME2, Sentinels are ALREADY very close to invincible. If you're getting killed as a Sentinel and it's not because you're playing on Insanity and making things hard for yourself, then wow, you need a bit of practice.

Insanity for Sentinels, having played one in them as I have now (I hadn't a few weeks ago) doesn't feel like Hardcore, it feels like "easy mode". It's SO hard to die. You really have to put an effort in.

So doing anything to make them stronger for ME2? I just don't think that will make the class more fun for players.

People say balance doesn't apply to single-player games. That's complete trash. It does, because if the game is too hard, or too easy, people have less fun, and get less engaged by the game, and Sentinels are already too easy. You just have to realize that Tech Armour is your #1 cooldown. Then you're pretty much the winner.

Every class should be hard on Insanity. People play Insanity for the challenge. Yeah, if Sentinel is too easy on Normal or on Easy, well, fine, honestly that's not a big deal - people who play those aren't playing for the challenge, but the problem is, right now, Sentinel is way too easy on Insanity (which is probably too easy by itself), and making it easier will just disappoint Sentinel players who actually want a challenge.

I think this is all so much smack-talk though. BW isn't going to go back to individual power cooldowns and allow Alpha Strikes even more than they do now.

[Sidney]

Legion of Grunt wrote...

Individual,everything being linked just made me feel like only building up one abiliity and using the rest to max out passive stuff and ammo powers.

Have several weak powers you can't use until one power cools down or one maxed out power you can spam from near the start of the game?

Yeah I spammed the hell out of that one power...

Not sure why this matters. Should you be "encouraged" to use lift as opposed to slam? Does it really matter? So what if you spammed one power, that was your choice and if that style of play bores you...don't do it. In the end most of the lift/throw/slam/pull powers are too similar for me to care about which one I use in general. While all of those are pretty much serving the same purpose the other powers: reave, singularity, shockwave, charge all serve different more specific purposes so it isn't like you'll be using one or the other.

[Mixon]

Global cooldowns were not realy good for action likers...

[Repearized Miranda]

Eurhetemec wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

What about Sentinel because that character is also "overpowered". The idea that overpowered = invincibly is erroneous. No matter how much both classes were helped, it still comes down to knowing what to do. To play along though, I guess Insanity for a Sentinel feels like Hardcore. Yet, again, that depends on the player.

In ME2, Sentinels are ALREADY very close to invincible. If you're getting killed as a Sentinel and it's not because you're playing on Insanity and making things hard for yourself, then wow, you need a bit of practice.

Insanity for Sentinels, having played one in them as I have now (I hadn't a few weeks ago) doesn't feel like Hardcore, it feels like "easy mode". It's SO hard to die. You really have to put an effort in.

So doing anything to make them stronger for ME2? I just don't think that will make the class more fun for players.

People say balance doesn't apply to single-player games. That's complete trash. It does, because if the game is too hard, or too easy, people have less fun, and get less engaged by the game, and Sentinels are already too easy. You just have to realize that Tech Armour is your #1 cooldown. Then you're pretty much the winner.

Every class should be hard on Insanity. People play Insanity for the challenge. Yeah, if Sentinel is too easy on Normal or on Easy, well, fine, honestly that's not a big deal - people who play those aren't playing for the challenge, but the problem is, right now, Sentinel is way too easy on Insanity (which is probably too easy by itself), and making it easier will just disappoint Sentinel players who actually want a challenge.

I think this is all so much smack-talk though. BW isn't going to go back to individual power cooldowns and allow Alpha Strikes even more than they do now.

Not necessarily. I'm not a perfect player if that's what you mean, but I'm not consisently dying nor am I breezing though Insanity while not getting touched. But yes, of course it's easy if you know what you're doing! I'm sure most players really good at games play on the most difficult settings; yet, many act as if Sentinel regardless on Insanity is "god mode" and it clearly is not. I'm sure most would turn their noses up at playing such a mode. (Causal)

Don't get me wrong, I'm up for the challenge, but to play other classes if Sentinel is "too easy"?  Wait though, people do and moan about how Insanity is kicking their behinds! Insanity for Adept/Vanguard is very challenging, but turning down the level or overhauling those classes to be able to tackle Insanity, kind of defeats the purpose of wanting a challenge.

As many have I said - including myself - Insanity's too easy, but I'm playing a class that can tackle it. So, let's make Insanity ten times harder. Are you saying classes shouldn't be made to tackle it for it'll become "too easy"? Seems like there would be no end to that cycle. 

ME3 has promised to be more challenging; however, whose to say it won't eventually become too easy either?

[Commander Shep4rd]

Commander Shep4rd wrote...

My personal suggestrion

Hybrid between globally individual and group cooldowns.
Power is used all powers go into cooldown however for different types of powers the cooldown is lower
Example

Power used:Warp                                  
Biotic power cooldowns:10 seconds
Other power power cooldowns:5 seconds

Now ill put a guide of Cooldown times For biotic powers.

Power:                     Attraction/Pull   Throw  Shockwave  Singularity  Slam/Warp  Barrier
Power Cooldown:          3s                      4s         8s                    12s              15s             25s
S. type  powers               2s                       3s         4s                     8s                9s               12s
Diff. type powers:           1s                       1s         2s                     4s                 6s                 8s
 
Now if before you go saying how it would only benefit mixed classes well i had also made a special cooldown time for specialist classes Example:
Power         Attraction/Pull   Throw  Shockwave  Singularity  Slam/Warp    Barrier
Vanguard:         3s                       4s           8s                    12s              15s                 25s
Adept:                3s                       3s           6s                    8s                 10s                 18s 

Now your asking why did i put the cooldowns so long? Well becuase i implemented another feature:
Power Combos
Basically at the power wheel you get to choose two powers to use it at the same time, the order of the powers depends of what order you choosed the powers, for shortcuts pressing two buttons at the same time (controller & keyboard) while enable that feature which is why i made cooldowns long.

Now your asking.How will be i able to tell when a power becomes avaliable if i´m a console player?
we can also implement pop-ups: when a ceratin power becomes avaliable a pop-up with the image of the power appears on the lower left of the screenthat way you will be able to tell when a power is avalaible
So..what do you think?
 

[The Spamming Troll]

Kronner wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

My favorite class is the Adept and unless I try very hard then I find that due to the GCD I'm using guns almost as much as abilities.
...

That's how the class was designed. Especially on harder difficulty modes, it is a must and it is intended that way.
If you see that as restrictive and want to play a space mage..why don't you play on Veteran (for example)?

only thats how the class was designed for on lower difficulties. i know theres the option to play without protections, but i feel like im seeing far less talent in my opposition as in higher difficulties, not just dealing with the addition of protections.

enemy protections should only be on insanity or possibly on all difficulties, as long as abilities have potential to work through those defenses. as much as i hate the gameplay my adept deals with when i run into enemy protections i can see a decent stepping stone boware could use and create some sort of even playing field in terms of the challenge they will face for each class. if the games already done, how can abilities and protections not come to an even playing field by now?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 25 juin 2011 - 12:38 .

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

On the one hand, I liked ME2's global cooldowns because they were shorter.  On the other hand, individual cooldowns would make it easier to combine powers.

[lazuli]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

enemy protections should only be on insanity or possibly on all difficulties, as long as abilities have potential to work through those defenses.

No.  Defensive layers help set enemies apart from one another, especially on lower difficulty levels where only noteworthy enemies have them.  It's poor gameplay to give a class the ability to completely remove any enemy from the fight without any effort at all.  Stasis is about as much of a halfway point as will ever work, though I hope that the "fall of death" glitch is worked out.

[The Twilight God]

Eurhetemec wrote...

In ME2, Sentinels are ALREADY very close to invincible. If you're getting killed as a Sentinel and it's not because you're playing on Insanity and making things hard for yourself, then wow, you need a bit of practice.

Insanity for Sentinels, having played one in them as I have now (I hadn't a few weeks ago) doesn't feel like Hardcore, it feels like "easy mode". It's SO hard to die. You really have to put an effort in.

So doing anything to make them stronger for ME2? I just don't think that will make the class more fun for players.

People say balance doesn't apply to single-player games. That's complete trash. It does, because if the game is too hard, or too easy, people have less fun, and get less engaged by the game, and Sentinels are already too easy. You just have to realize that Tech Armour is your #1 cooldown. Then you're pretty much the winner.

Every class should be hard on Insanity. People play Insanity for the challenge. Yeah, if Sentinel is too easy on Normal or on Easy, well, fine, honestly that's not a big deal - people who play those aren't playing for the challenge, but the problem is, right now, Sentinel is way too easy on Insanity (which is probably too easy by itself), and making it easier will just disappoint Sentinel players who actually want a challenge.

I think this is all so much smack-talk though. BW isn't going to go back to individual power cooldowns and allow Alpha Strikes even more than they do now.

If you think sentinel is too easy and that bores you... well, don't play a sentinel.  Believe it or not, some people like it easy. Perhaps a sentinel on Insanity is just right for certain players.  Some people liked playing an adept (aka god mode)  in ME1. Just because you like a challenge doesn't mean Bioware should design every single class around your particular preferences. There are other people in this world besides you. 

Just saying.

[Hydralisk]

Shotokanguy wrote...

Hydralisk wrote...

No way, the shooter fans think ME2 gameplay better.
ME1 felt more like a TPRPG, while ME2 felt like a TPS with RPG aspects.
Edit: Did you ever play ME1 on Insane as an Engineer? It was so much fun!
The classes actually felt different.

"The shooter fans" thought it was better huh? Just what does that mean? I'm not a shooter fan dude, I'm a video game fan. I liked what ME2 did better for gameplay.

ME1 felt like a TPRPG...ME2 felt like a TPS RPG...hmm, I think that means ME2 was closer to what the ME series should be.

I played ME1 on Insanity once...I don't remember jack about it, except that enemies had more health.

And lastly, I thought it was generally agreed upon that the classes in ME2 were a lot more unique?

Yeah, I think pretty much everything you just said only is true in Opposite Land.

How were they more unquie? most of the classes all shared abilitys.