121 réponses à ce sujet

[jbblue05]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

tomas2377 wrote...

I paid a lot of attention to the game.

What he meant was you didn't pay attention to your crew. Nearly everyone serving on the Normandy left the Alliance to serve under you, not Cerberus. Because they believed in what you were doing and or had families that were at risk they needed to save.

They were not in any way connected with the cells you fought in the first game.

Mess Seargent Gardener joined because Cerberus gets the job done

Ken &Gabby join because they lost respect for the Alliance

Joker joined because the Alliance tried to "clip" his wings.

Chawkas join because she wanted to serve on a ship.

The entire crew joined the Lazarus Cell before Shep was revived.  The crew believed in Cerberus's goal, reviving Separd was icing on the cake. 

[tomas2377]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

tomas2377 wrote...

That is true. I can't argue with that but one fact still remains and it is one I haven't been able to get past. They did betray the Alliance. Even if they had a noble reason it is still treason.

You don't just quit when things get tough.

Like you betrayed the Alliance in ME1 when you stole the Normandy? They call that Mutiny.

I was never put on trial for that and I had the go ahead from a superior officer. Captain Anderson made that very clear that he was going to take the heat for it.

While I wanted to steal the ship in the first place I officially acted on his orders.

We were all cleared of any charges by the way.

[Cutlass Jack]

jbblue05 wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

tomas2377 wrote...

I paid a lot of attention to the game.

What he meant was you didn't pay attention to your crew. Nearly everyone serving on the Normandy left the Alliance to serve under you, not Cerberus. Because they believed in what you were doing and or had families that were at risk they needed to save.

They were not in any way connected with the cells you fought in the first game.

Mess Seargent Gardener joined because Cerberus gets the job done

Ken &Gabby join because they lost respect for the Alliance

Joker joined because the Alliance tried to "clip" his wings.

Chawkas join because she wanted to serve on a ship.

The entire crew joined the Lazarus Cell before Shep was revived.  The crew believed in Cerberus's goal, reviving Separd was icing on the cake. 

Chakwas says quite directly that she didn't join Cerberus, she joined you. And that she trusts you'll remain ethical. Ken & Gabby say similar stuff and have done nothing with Cerberus other than work on the Normandy.

[Cutlass Jack]

tomas2377 wrote...

I was never put on trial for that and I had the go ahead from a superior officer. Captain Anderson made that very clear that he was going to take the heat for it.

While I wanted to steal the ship in the first place I officially acted on his orders.

We were all cleared of any charges by the way.

Your crew wasn't put on trial either and could also be cleared. Remeber they're all G'damm heroes (to borrow from Zaeed) for stopping the Collectors from abducting human colonies.

And both Hackett and Anderson were in contact with your ship at various points and had no trouble requesting aid from them. Hackett even came on board and hung out.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 23 juin 2011 - 04:28 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

tomas2377 wrote...

I was never put on trial for that and I had the go ahead from a superior officer. Captain Anderson made that very clear that he was going to take the heat for it.

While I wanted to steal the ship in the first place I officially acted on his orders.

We were all cleared of any charges by the way.

Your crew wasn't put on trial either and could also be cleared. Remeber they're all G'damm heroes (to borrow from Zaeed) for stopping the Collectors from abducting human colonies.

And both Hackett and Anderson were in contact with your ship at various points and had no trouble requesting aid from them. Hackett even came on board and hung out.

Don't forget Jacob... he signed up for pretty much same reasons as the rest of the crew but unlike some of them he is more aware of what Cerberus has done in the past and doesn't condone it. Another of the things tomas clearly missed out on.

[CannonO]

Yeah, I liked them before, but the Collectors thing made me want them around always.

[tomas2377]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

tomas2377 wrote...

I was never put on trial for that and I had the go ahead from a superior officer. Captain Anderson made that very clear that he was going to take the heat for it.

While I wanted to steal the ship in the first place I officially acted on his orders.

We were all cleared of any charges by the way.

Your crew wasn't put on trial either and could also be cleared. Remeber they're all G'damm heroes (to borrow from Zaeed) for stopping the Collectors from abducting human colonies.

And both Hackett and Anderson were in contact with your ship at various points and had no trouble requesting aid from them. Hackett even came on board and hung out.

Don't forget Jacob... he signed up for pretty much same reasons as the rest of the crew but unlike some of them he is more aware of what Cerberus has done in the past and doesn't condone it. Another of the things tomas clearly missed out on.

Nope. Didn't miss that part. Still doesn't change the fact that he works for Cerberus and betrayed the Alliance.

Good intentions are nice and all but treason is still treason.

The end doesn't justify the means.

[Il Divo]

tomas2377 wrote...

I was never put on trial for that and I had the go ahead from a superior officer. Captain Anderson made that very clear that he was going to take the heat for it.

While I wanted to steal the ship in the first place I officially acted on his orders.

We were all cleared of any charges by the way.

Committing treason under the command of a superior officer is still treason. By the Alliance's code, Shepard was supposed to relieve Anderson of his command, not go along for the ride.

Also, while stealing the ship, Shepard had no idea whether he was going to be put on trial or not. Because things turned out okay is not an argument for Shepard's actions at the time.

tomas2377 wrote...

Good intentions are nice and all but treason is still treason.

The end doesn't justify the means.

And yet, if we followed that line of reasoning, Shepard would never have hijacked the Normandy and we would all be dead via the Reapers.

Modifié par Il Divo, 23 juin 2011 - 04:41 .

[jbblue05]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

tomas2377 wrote...

I paid a lot of attention to the game.

What he meant was you didn't pay attention to your crew. Nearly everyone serving on the Normandy left the Alliance to serve under you, not Cerberus. Because they believed in what you were doing and or had families that were at risk they needed to save.

They were not in any way connected with the cells you fought in the first game.

Mess Seargent Gardener joined because Cerberus gets the job done

Ken &Gabby join because they lost respect for the Alliance

Joker joined because the Alliance tried to "clip" his wings.

Chawkas join because she wanted to serve on a ship.

The entire crew joined the Lazarus Cell before Shep was revived.  The crew believed in Cerberus's goal, reviving Separd was icing on the cake. 

Chakwas says quite directly that she didn't join Cerberus, she joined you. And that she trusts you'll remain ethical. Ken & Gabby say similar stuff and have done nothing with Cerberus other than work on the Normandy.

Chakwas joined Cerberus prior to Shepard being revived.  Chakwas talls you she likes being where the action is,  She joined Cerberus to save the colonists. and be with her old friends Shepard and Joker.

Ken & Gabby joined Cerberus to stop the Reapers., they tell Shepard they lost respect for the Alliance because they backslid on the Reaper threat. 

Kelly appears sweet and innocent and she joins Cerberus because she believes in their goals. Jacob an alliance soldiers joins Cerberus because he believes in their goals and wants to stop the Collectors.

[Chaia]

I hope we don't get forced to rejoin the Alliance again in ME3, not that I liked working with Cerberus I didn't really mind, it was necessary, but the fact that my Shepard is having to face a Alliance trial is annoying as he quit Cerberus but is still a Spectre; his trial and pushment should be done by the Council (my Shepard would have never voluntarily handed over his ship to the Alliance, espically since its got upgrades such as Turian Thanix Cannons installed)

[Vanaer]

No. I want to run my ship STD free.

[tomas2377]

Il Divo wrote...

tomas2377 wrote...

I was never put on trial for that and I had the go ahead from a superior officer. Captain Anderson made that very clear that he was going to take the heat for it.

While I wanted to steal the ship in the first place I officially acted on his orders.

We were all cleared of any charges by the way.

Committing treason under the command of a superior officer is still treason. By the Alliance's code, Shepard was supposed to relieve Anderson of his command, not go along for the ride.

Also, while stealing the ship, Shepard had no idea whether he was going to be put on trial or not. Because things turned out okay is not an argument for Shepard's actions at the time.

Huh... I guess I never thought that part through to the end.

You are right of course. I only looked at it from a purely RP and character point of view. I just wanted to save the galaxy.

I am just glad that Ash didn't relieve me of command for a breach of fraternization regs when I romanced her.

[goofyomnivore]

I hope we get the Lazarus Cell back, but I doubt we do since they're killable. Doubt they would design two crews.

[Il Divo]

tomas2377 wrote...

Huh... I guess I never thought that part through to the end.

You are right of course. I only looked at it from a purely RP and character point of view. I just wanted to save the galaxy.

I am just glad that Ash didn't relieve me of command for a breach of fraternization regs when I romanced her.

Which could be said of any Cerberus agents, especially most who are found aboard the Normandy. Ken/Gabby join up because of how the Alliance backpedals/disavows Commander Shepard. Jacob views Cerberus as a watchdog and refuses to go along with their more brutal acts.

Not all of them are there to take over the world/exterminate aliens. The premise of ME2 makes that clear: the Alliance ignored the Reapers. Cerberus wants to stop the Reapers. That alone removes any black and white perspectives.

Modifié par Il Divo, 23 juin 2011 - 04:48 .

[Fixers0]

Ieldra2 wrote...

(1) I can see no terrorists. I can only see courageous people who went through hell with me in order to defeat the Collectors. There is no hint of any of them ever having done something remotely like an act of terrorism.
(2) The SR2 does not belong to the Alliance. It's Shepard's ship.

(1.) They willingly work for an organisation that commited various criminal acts against severel nations across the galaxy, and they have been declared Terrorist by both the Alliance and the Council.
(2.) the SR2 is created by Cerberus who stole it's design from the Sytems  Alliance and Turian Hierarchy  Co-developed SSV Normandy SR1, the Alliance has every right to impound the vessel and claim it as their own, which is what happend.

[tomas2377]

Fixers0 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

(1) I can see no terrorists. I can only see courageous people who went through hell with me in order to defeat the Collectors. There is no hint of any of them ever having done something remotely like an act of terrorism.
(2) The SR2 does not belong to the Alliance. It's Shepard's ship.

(1.) They willingly work for an organisation that commited various criminal acts against severel nations across the galaxy, and they have been declared Terrorist by both the Alliance and the Council.
(2.) the SR2 is created by Cerberus who stole it's design from the Sytems  Alliance and Turian Hierarchy  Co-developed SSV Normandy SR1, the Alliance has every right to impound the vessel and claim it as their own, which is what happend.

This. I agree with everything.

[Skirata129]

tomas2377 wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

tomas2377 wrote...

I was never put on trial for that and I had the go ahead from a superior officer. Captain Anderson made that very clear that he was going to take the heat for it.

While I wanted to steal the ship in the first place I officially acted on his orders.

We were all cleared of any charges by the way.

Your crew wasn't put on trial either and could also be cleared. Remeber they're all G'damm heroes (to borrow from Zaeed) for stopping the Collectors from abducting human colonies.

And both Hackett and Anderson were in contact with your ship at various points and had no trouble requesting aid from them. Hackett even came on board and hung out.

Don't forget Jacob... he signed up for pretty much same reasons as the rest of the crew but unlike some of them he is more aware of what Cerberus has done in the past and doesn't condone it. Another of the things tomas clearly missed out on.

Nope. Didn't miss that part. Still doesn't change the fact that he works for Cerberus and betrayed the Alliance.

Good intentions are nice and all but treason is still treason.

The end doesn't justify the means.

I can tell you're one of those blinkered pure paragon players that get on my nerves in the forums...

[tomas2377]

Skirata129 wrote...

I can tell you're one of those blinkered pure paragon players that get on my nerves in the forums...

Wait... who told you? Never mind. Guilty as charged.

Pure Paragon and proud of it.

[Keedmo]

I also want the Lazarus cell back. However in the end I didn't consider them Cerberus, I considered them Team Shep. and I won't mind staying that way.. after the council was eager to brand Shepard a traitor (and insane)... after the alliance was quick to tear apart his warnings when he died and re-assign the Normandy crew ("Everything you stirred up the alliance just wanted it gone" Joker)...

I don't trust Cerberus
I don't trust the alliance (exception being Hackett, Anderson and VS)

I trust Team Shep, Hackett, Anderson and the Shadow Broker

[Whatever42]

The Alliance is smashed. Earth is smashed. The whole reason they are smashed is that they didn't listen to Shepard.

Shepard can simply take anything he wants now. None of the gutless weasels left alive from the Alliance will oppose him. They've been exposed as vermin and will do as all vermin do and run and hide. Those with the guts to keep fighting will back Shepard all the way. Not a problem.

[Sebby]

jbblue05 wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

tomas2377 wrote...

I paid a lot of attention to the game.

What he meant was you didn't pay attention to your crew. Nearly everyone serving on the Normandy left the Alliance to serve under you, not Cerberus. Because they believed in what you were doing and or had families that were at risk they needed to save.

They were not in any way connected with the cells you fought in the first game.

Mess Seargent Gardener joined because Cerberus gets the job done

Ken &Gabby join because they lost respect for the Alliance

Joker joined because the Alliance tried to "clip" his wings.

Chawkas join because she wanted to serve on a ship.

The entire crew joined the Lazarus Cell before Shep was revived.  The crew believed in Cerberus's goal, reviving Separd was icing on the cake. 

Chakwas says quite directly that she didn't join Cerberus, she joined you. And that she trusts you'll remain ethical. Ken & Gabby say similar stuff and have done nothing with Cerberus other than work on the Normandy.

Chakwas joined Cerberus prior to Shepard being revived.  Chakwas talls you she likes being where the action is,  She joined Cerberus to save the colonists. and be with her old friends Shepard and Joker.

Ken & Gabby joined Cerberus to stop the Reapers., they tell Shepard they lost respect for the Alliance because they backslid on the Reaper threat. 

Kelly appears sweet and innocent and she joins Cerberus because she believes in their goals. Jacob an alliance soldiers joins Cerberus because he believes in their goals and wants to stop the Collectors.

True, Cerberus saved humanity from the collectors and fights for human rights and interests. They have my full respect.

[Vertigo_1]

Don't know why this thread isn't 5 starred...done

Anyway I have to agree, the ME2 crew had more personality to them and were fun to talk to:

• Drink with Chakwas while getting to know her better
• Play Skillian Five Poker with Gabby and Ken (Tali joins in too)
• You can have conversations with Kelly after key mission plus she can feed your fish and even become your LI

For the most part these involved quests but those were worth it IMO

Overall lots of thought and care went into creating the ME2 crew...if they replace them all in ME3 with Alliance; it just wouldn't be the same.

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 23 juin 2011 - 05:05 .

[JamieCOTC]

tomas2377 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

(1) I can see no terrorists. I can only see courageous people who went through hell with me in order to defeat the Collectors. There is no hint of any of them ever having done something remotely like an act of terrorism.
(2) The SR2 does not belong to the Alliance. It's Shepard's ship.

(1.) They willingly work for an organisation that commited various criminal acts against severel nations across the galaxy, and they have been declared Terrorist by both the Alliance and the Council.
(2.) the SR2 is created by Cerberus who stole it's design from the Sytems  Alliance and Turian Hierarchy  Co-developed SSV Normandy SR1, the Alliance has every right to impound the vessel and claim it as their own, which is what happend.

This. I agree with everything.

Hackett: "Besides, I  don't think this is a Cerberus vessel anymore, do you?"

The same goes for the crew. 

[CannonO]

Are you guys saying there is some sort of intergalactic patent law that allows the Alliance to take someone else's ship because they designed a predecessor?

[Trakarg]

tomas2377 wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

tomas2377 wrote...

I was never put on trial for that and I had the go ahead from a superior officer. Captain Anderson made that very clear that he was going to take the heat for it.

While I wanted to steal the ship in the first place I officially acted on his orders.

We were all cleared of any charges by the way.

Committing treason under the command of a superior officer is still treason. By the Alliance's code, Shepard was supposed to relieve Anderson of his command, not go along for the ride.

Also, while stealing the ship, Shepard had no idea whether he was going to be put on trial or not. Because things turned out okay is not an argument for Shepard's actions at the time.

Huh... I guess I never thought that part through to the end.

You are right of course. I only looked at it from a purely RP and character point of view. I just wanted to save the galaxy.

I am just glad that Ash didn't relieve me of command for a breach of fraternization regs when I romanced her.

I'm pure paragon too, but Cerberus is the only organization willing to do anything about the reaper problem in ME2.  That's why I didn't mind working with them.  Until the illusive man asked me to save the collector base, of course.  **** that ****.