121 réponses à ce sujet

[Sebby]

JamieCOTC wrote...

tomas2377 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

(1) I can see no terrorists. I can only see courageous people who went through hell with me in order to defeat the Collectors. There is no hint of any of them ever having done something remotely like an act of terrorism.
(2) The SR2 does not belong to the Alliance. It's Shepard's ship.

(1.) They willingly work for an organisation that commited various criminal acts against severel nations across the galaxy, and they have been declared Terrorist by both the Alliance and the Council.
(2.) the SR2 is created by Cerberus who stole it's design from the Sytems  Alliance and Turian Hierarchy  Co-developed SSV Normandy SR1, the Alliance has every right to impound the vessel and claim it as their own, which is what happend.

This. I agree with everything.

Hackett: "Besides, I  don't think this is a Cerberus vessel anymore, do you?"

The same goes for the crew. 

Hackett doesn't say that if the CB was saved. :happy:

[Skirata129]

CannonLars wrote...

Are you guys saying there is some sort of intergalactic patent law that allows the Alliance to take someone else's ship because they designed a predecessor?

Agreed. the Alliance taking the Normandy was an act of piracy, pure and simple. I feel bad about this because we aren't allowed to continue working for Cerberus and are forced to give the Normandy to the Alliance even though every Shep owes Cerberus a MASSIVE debt for bringing them back to life and saving hundreds of thousands of human colonists in the short term and potentially the galaxy in the long run. To every one still whining about them having a shady past- Grow Up. In real life shady organizations are used to good purpose all the time.

With out the Corsican Union, a smuggling and criminal organization similiar to the Mafia, it is highly unlikely D-Day would have succeeded. They helped the allies and were rewarded with virtual autonomy after the war. same difference with Cerberus. Show some gratitude and respect people.

[ADLegend21]

Hackett says "I can play nice with them with the Repaers coming" when you sk him if he hs reservation about being on a Cerberus vessel if you save the Collector Base.

[ADLegend21]

I'm all for bringing them back though. They sarcraficed their public lives to help the cuase for humanity and The defeat of the Reapers. They shouldn't be punished for doing the right thing.

[jbblue05]

Skirata129 wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

Are you guys saying there is some sort of intergalactic patent law that allows the Alliance to take someone else's ship because they designed a predecessor?

Agreed. the Alliance taking the Normandy was an act of piracy, pure and simple. I feel bad about this because we aren't allowed to continue working for Cerberus and are forced to give the Normandy to the Alliance even though every Shep owes Cerberus a MASSIVE debt for bringing them back to life and saving hundreds of thousands of human colonists in the short term and potentially the galaxy in the long run. To every one still whining about them having a shady past- Grow Up. In real life shady organizations are used to good purpose all the time.

With out the Corsican Union, a smuggling and criminal organization similiar to the Mafia, it is highly unlikely D-Day would have succeeded. They helped the allies and were rewarded with virtual autonomy after the war. same difference with Cerberus. Show some gratitude and respect people.

Most people on these forums don't like Cerberus, so majority rules and Cerberus are now enemies.

People likes it whan its good guys vs. bad guys and to most people Cerberus are bad guys pretending to be good

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

jbblue05 wrote...

Most people on these forums don't like Cerberus, so majority rules and Cerberus are now enemies.

People likes it whan its good guys vs. bad guys and to most people Cerberus are bad guys pretending to be good

"Shiny, let's be bad guys!"

[Sebby]

jbblue05 wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

Are you guys saying there is some sort of intergalactic patent law that allows the Alliance to take someone else's ship because they designed a predecessor?

Agreed. the Alliance taking the Normandy was an act of piracy, pure and simple. I feel bad about this because we aren't allowed to continue working for Cerberus and are forced to give the Normandy to the Alliance even though every Shep owes Cerberus a MASSIVE debt for bringing them back to life and saving hundreds of thousands of human colonists in the short term and potentially the galaxy in the long run. To every one still whining about them having a shady past- Grow Up. In real life shady organizations are used to good purpose all the time.

With out the Corsican Union, a smuggling and criminal organization similiar to the Mafia, it is highly unlikely D-Day would have succeeded. They helped the allies and were rewarded with virtual autonomy after the war. same difference with Cerberus. Show some gratitude and respect people.

Most people on these forums don't like Cerberus, so majority rules and Cerberus are now enemies.

People likes it whan its good guys vs. bad guys and to most people Cerberus are bad guys pretending to be good

Don't worry, guys like you and I know Cerberus are the true heroes of ME2.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

I've been saying this for a while.

F Cerberus, F Alliance, F you guys, screw them all. I want the Lazarus Cell back too. I hope we can recruit them back with Miranda.

[Vertigo_1]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

I've been saying this for a while.

F Cerberus, F Alliance, F you guys, screw them all. I want the Lazarus Cell back too. I hope we can recruit them back with Miranda.

"I like this human, he understands!"

[Barquiel]

The named crew members seemed nice enough but I wouldn't be surprised if some crew members are loyal to TIM.

heavy risk...

[Phaedon]

Ieldra2 wrote...
If the Alliance dares lay a hand on them they'll regret it, and should they have left before I returned to Earth I want the chance to pick them up again. At least some of them. No matter who else is there instead, it will feel lonely without them.

You are talking about making a democratically elected government regret for doing it's job and apprehending known criminals, part of a terrorist group.

So, um, yeah, cool. 

[jbblue05]

Seboist wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

Are you guys saying there is some sort of intergalactic patent law that allows the Alliance to take someone else's ship because they designed a predecessor?

Agreed. the Alliance taking the Normandy was an act of piracy, pure and simple. I feel bad about this because we aren't allowed to continue working for Cerberus and are forced to give the Normandy to the Alliance even though every Shep owes Cerberus a MASSIVE debt for bringing them back to life and saving hundreds of thousands of human colonists in the short term and potentially the galaxy in the long run. To every one still whining about them having a shady past- Grow Up. In real life shady organizations are used to good purpose all the time.

With out the Corsican Union, a smuggling and criminal organization similiar to the Mafia, it is highly unlikely D-Day would have succeeded. They helped the allies and were rewarded with virtual autonomy after the war. same difference with Cerberus. Show some gratitude and respect people.

Most people on these forums don't like Cerberus, so majority rules and Cerberus are now enemies.

People likes it whan its good guys vs. bad guys and to most people Cerberus are bad guys pretending to be good

Don't worry, guys like you and I know Cerberus are the true heroes of ME2.

Keep fighting the good fight

[Ieldra]

tomas2377 wrote...
Yes, some people believe she saved you from the Collectors but better be dead and disected or liquified than to work for the enemey that is Cerberus.

*scoffs*

Yeah, because nothing can be worse than the organization that gave you a second life and a new ship. Not even the Reapers, apparently. Not even being Reaper food. I can't say how tired I am of this attitude.

Here's a little reminder: there are the Reapers. You know, that species of sentient starships responsible for countless events of galactic extinction. Cerberus is inconsequential compared to them, and as a consequence working with them is also inconsequential. They are the lesser evil, and to paint them as enemy No 1. is so incredibly shortsighted that I can't find words for it. IMO putting such an attitude to action in the game deserves a game over screen.

I want my ME2 crew back. Their nominal allegiance doesn't matter, because they have done what needed to be done at high risk of their lives. They've helped save humanity, for god's sake, and you can't get off your moral high horse for long enough to acknowledge that? Pah. *oozes contempt*

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 juin 2011 - 06:08 .

[DragonRageGT]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

I've been saying this for a while.

F Cerberus, F Alliance, F you guys, screw them all. I want the Lazarus Cell back too. I hope we can recruit them back with Miranda.

/Signed

Why are you guys wasting so many thread pages with that guy? It's like trying to convince Persephone that DA2 is not exactly what she think it is with a huge list of concrete reasons and she will still deny them all and call it hyperbole!

[Phaedon]

Barquiel wrote...

The named crew members seemed nice enough but I wouldn't be surprised if some crew members are loyal to TIM.

heavy risk...

It's very likely that TIM handpicked them under the criteria that the Lazarus Cell operatives were the less extremist ones, and the ones with more links to the Alliance. TIM wants Shepard to sympathize for Cerberus.

Somewhat loyal? Maybe. Really loyal? Not quite.

That doesn't change the fact that they are criminals.

"But, so is Shepard!1!!one!"
Well, yeah, sure, that's why is actually in a hearing in the first place?
ME3 is certainly the 'redeeming' point for several Shepards and possibly some of the crewmates as well. But chances are that the Alliance has locked all of the crew up.

...yeah, I know that Joker has not been arrested, I am trying to find a rational explanation for that, still.

[jamesp81]

Ieldra2 wrote...

laecraft wrote...
The Collectors took Shepard's people, and look what happened to the Collectors. Anyone missed the Paragon Shepard's speech "Let's bring our people home"? It's like Shepard completely forgot about the main purpose of the mission and rushed to save his crew.

I usually take the other option there because my main Shepard has a "the mission comes first" attitude. But that doesn't mean he doesn't care about them. They're as close to him as family, and that he must think of the mission first is very painful for him. 

And should the Alliance take any of his people, his response will be along the same lines: "They're going to see what happens when you ****** me off".

Interesting side note.  I play paragon, but I prefer the renegade speeches on the suicide mission.  The paragon speeches tend to remind the crew what they're fighting for.  Not bad in principle, but it can also inspire fear of loss.

You don't want that.  Fear is for the enemy.  One key to victory is to defeat the enemy in your own mind before the battle even begins.  The renegade speeches take that path.  Everyone who is there knows what they're fighting for and they don't need me to remind them.  Instead of going on about what everyone's fighting for, I prefer to point out that since the enemy has surrounded us, there's no way they can escape this time.

[Ieldra]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...
I've been saying this for a while.

F Cerberus, F Alliance, F you guys, screw them all. I want the Lazarus Cell back too. I hope we can recruit them back with Miranda.

This!

[Whatever42]

I don't know... from the chatter we heard in the crew quarters, in the mess hall, and on the bridge, I'd guess that most of the crew were selected because they were motivated. Many were from the colonies at risk or had family there. These were people who were basically told they were going to die and faced that death to save the people in the colonies. It's hard to think that they were hardened terrorists who hated other species.

On the SR-1, I heard a lot of distrust of other species. On the SR-2, I heard no such comments. The crew liked Tali. They got along with Garrus. They obviously trusted Mordin enough to let him physically examine them and find out they had scale itch.

Sorry, there is zero evidence that these are Cerberus terrorists and much evidence that they were recruited from the colonies because they were motivated to save their families and friends.

[Ieldra]

Phaedon wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

The named crew members seemed nice enough but I wouldn't be surprised if some crew members are loyal to TIM.

heavy risk...

It's very likely that TIM handpicked them under the criteria that the Lazarus Cell operatives were the less extremist ones, and the ones with more links to the Alliance. TIM wants Shepard to sympathize for Cerberus.

Somewhat loyal? Maybe. Really loyal? Not quite.

That doesn't change the fact that they are criminals.

"But, so is Shepard!1!!one!"
Well, yeah, sure, that's why is actually in a hearing in the first place?
ME3 is certainly the 'redeeming' point for several Shepards and possibly some of the crewmates as well. But chances are that the Alliance has locked all of the crew up.

...yeah, I know that Joker has not been arrested, I am trying to find a rational explanation for that, still.

Are they? Criminals? For what? I haven't seen any of them taking part in a crime, nor do I have any evidence that they ever did. Being a political extremist as such is not a crime, and we don't even know they are that.

As for loyalty, Just like the team, at the end they're all loyal to Shepard.

Also, what Whatever666343431431654324 said

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 juin 2011 - 06:16 .

[Skirata129]

I'm just going to say this. Cerberus is the only organization in the Mass Effect Universe that has had my back every step of the way, supported me and never thrown me under the bridge because of politics.

/debate

[tobynator89]

Skirata129 wrote...

I'm just going to say this. Cerberus is the only organization in the Mass Effect Universe that has had my back every step of the way, supported me and never thrown me under the bridge because of politics.

/debate

never played the original ME did you?

[Phaedon]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Are they? Criminals? For what? I haven't seen any of them taking part in a crime, nor do I have any evidence that they ever did. Being a political extremist as such is not a crime, and we don't even know they are that.

Working willingly for an organization classified as terrorist (let's not start this argument again, legal definitions differ than the definition of a dictionary) is certainly a crime. A lot.

As for loyalty, Just like the team, at the end they're all loyal to Shepard.

Are they? Miranda certainly is, Ken and Gabby are,Joker just wanted to fly, and Chakwas wanted to watch over Joker, but...that's it? There certainly is no indication that the big chunk of the crew are still not terrorist operatives.

Well, there is Jacob as well, who is still technically loyal to TIM as well, but nobody really likes Jacob, so that doesn't matter.

[Skirata129]

tobynator89 wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

I'm just going to say this. Cerberus is the only organization in the Mass Effect Universe that has had my back every step of the way, supported me and never thrown me under the bridge because of politics.

/debate

never played the original ME did you?

Yeah, I have. and Miranda's explanation was both plausible and reasonable.

[Phaedon]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

I don't know... from the chatter we heard in the crew quarters, in the mess hall, and on the bridge, I'd guess that most of the crew were selected because they were motivated. Many were from the colonies at risk or had family there. These were people who were basically told they were going to die and faced that death to save the people in the colonies. It's hard to think that they were hardened terrorists who hated other species.

Nope, you literally have only 2 operatives with family on frontier colonies, ex-Alliance soldiers?

Jacob, Ken, Gabby, Joker and Chakwas.

On the SR-1, I heard a lot of distrust of other species. On the SR-2, I heard no such comments. The crew liked Tali. They got along with Garrus. They obviously trusted Mordin enough to let him physically examine them and find out they had scale itch.

Where did any of that happen in-game?
In the SR1, you have two soldiers who lost a lot in the FCW, and they don't even make a huge issue of it. They all say that they trust Shepard's judgement. You even have Adams being friendly with Tali.

The SR2? Even if TIM didn't tell his operatives not to ****** off Shepard, they don't show any sign of "liking Tali" or "getting along with Garrus". Unless you consider not having throwing a tantrum on an alien as a sign of getting along.

Sorry, there is zero evidence that these are Cerberus terrorists and much evidence that they were recruited from the colonies because they were motivated to save their families and friends.

You jump to this while your post is about something completely different.

They all know very well that they are working with Cerberus, all of the crew that you talk to recognizes this as "working with Cerberus", the uniforms belong to a front company for terrorists, Miranda is the leader of a Cerberus cell, and she kept contact with TIM all the time, there is surveillance equipment from Cerberus, and EDI holds information concerning Cerberus.

All of that, is if none of the crew members get interrogated or testify.

Modifié par Phaedon, 23 juin 2011 - 06:35 .

[Lvl20DM]

I got the impression that the Lazarus Cell was handpicked to be loyal to Shep and to make Shep comfortable. TIM put people like Kelly, Joker, and the Engineers in there because they aren't terrorists. At the outset probably the most questionable crewmember is Miranda, and by the end she may well cut ties with Cerberus.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the crew left to avoid arrest by the Alliance. It also seems like ME3's opening is going to be chaotic, so it could be that any crewmembers that stayed get left on Earth. Another possibility is that we have a skeleton crew at first, but pick a crew (both old and new) as the game progresses. I'd love to see a multi-species crew - Gardener's interaction with an Elcor or Hanar would be priceless.