121 réponses à ce sujet

[DragonRageGT]

tobynator89 wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

I'm just going to say this. Cerberus is the only organization in the Mass Effect Universe that has had my back every step of the way, supported me and never thrown me under the bridge because of politics.

/debate

never played the original ME did you?

Yeah, true but those were part of the military cell and some stuff they did were not exactly known by the boss. It doesn't excuse them but they can make ammends.

[Ieldra]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

I've been saying this for a while.

F Cerberus, F Alliance, F you guys, screw them all. I want the Lazarus Cell back too. I hope we can recruit them back with Miranda.

"I like this human, he understands!"

[Ieldra]

@Phaedon:
You quote legalities in a situation where they might as well be irrelevant. And plainly, my Shepards don't give a damn. The fact is, there is no evidence that any of them have committed any crimes. And if the Alliance is so petty as to go after the people who saved millions of humans from the Collectors, I'll let them know what I think of that in no uncertain terms.

Also, the word "terrorism" is, like almost always, a propaganda term. You talk about it as if it actually meant anything. The real meaning of the word - acts that inspire terror to achieve a political goal - has long been buried under years of propaganda. Cerberus "has been classified as terrorist" by an organization with opposing political interests. Why should I take the Alliance's word for it?

Again, my Shepards don't give a damn. The crew went with him to hell and back to save humanity from the Collectors when everyone else manipulated him or called him a traitor and a liar. If the law isn't flexible enough to acknowledge that, then f*ck the law. And yes, they're quite prepared to make a legitimate government "regret it". The Alliance wasn't loyal to them when they needed it, they had their chance.

My Shepard isn't Alliance, Cerberus or anything any more. His cause has become too big, and his crew is part of that bigger cause. The factions have become insignifant in the face of that cause, and have lost their right to interfere by their actions.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 juin 2011 - 07:19 .

[Bad King]

Fixers0 wrote...

Nope,

I don't want a bunch of terrorists on the crew of the Alliance's finest stealth frigate.

Typical Alliance attitude.

[Jkol1]

Both the Systems Alliance and the citadel council have finite spacial limits to their legal jurisdiction this is why planets such as Noveria and Illum can exist. Breaking citadel/alliance law outside these limits is not a crime, or at least not one that either entity can prosecute for. If the entire extent of a crewmans relationship takes place outside of citadel/alliance space and they aren't dumb enough to get paid in a bank account within these bounds or use the citadel comm networks for their activities then they may not have done anything they can be charged with.

I'm pretty sure that ME 2 is supposed to be set mostly outside of Citadel space, the exception being the events on the Citadel. Their work for Cerberus on Sheppard's milk runs to the Citadel are probably prosecutable but it is beyond unreasonable for Sheppard to hold people accountable for the crimes Sheppard ordered them to commit.

It is equally as disingenuous for Sheppard to label the ex-alliance crew as traitors when he/she is also working for Cerberus and it is quite possible that Sheppard is the only one on the ship who has not been lawfully discharged from the Alliance military.

Don't think your Shep worked for Cerberus? Then you probably shouldn't have taken the salary (bonus pay on missions) or the company car (SR2).

It seems kind of petty to judge your crew solely because Anderson didn't give them a hall pass (Spectre status) too. Perhaps they are there for the same reason a Paragon Sheppard is? Because feelings aside, the mission is essential?

That aside a full scale reaper invasion is the greatest threat humanity has ever known. Only a fool would discard a battle tested crew of combat veterans who have faced the reaper's tech and minions before and instead deprive other human ships of highly competent crew members to build a replacement team.

Also, I liked the SR2 Crew.

[Whatever42]

I don't get to argue with you enough, Phaedon! 

Phaedon wrote...

Nope, you literally have only 2 operatives with family on frontier colonies, ex-Alliance soldiers?

Jacob, Ken, Gabby, Joker and Chakwas.

In the crew quarters that one man has his wife and child in the colony. In the mess they talk about another. On the bridge, one of the crew has a brother.

We heard a man on the bridge about going to see the Consort. Another responds that he thinks its very optimistic for him to think they're going to live. Not exactly speciest or the response of a terrorist. We also hear one talk about Shepard's great team and how anxious they are to get back the missing colonists.

Phaedon wrote...

Where did any of that happen in-game?
In the SR1, you have two soldiers who lost a lot in the FCW, and they don't even make a huge issue of it. They all say that they trust Shepard's judgement. You even have Adams being friendly with Tali.

The SR2? Even if TIM didn't tell his operatives not to ****** off Shepard, they don't show any sign of "liking Tali" or "getting along with Garrus". Unless you consider not having throwing a tantrum on an alien as a sign of getting along.

Garrus and Tali tell you that they're getting along with the Crew. Garrus thinks its because of his cred from killing Saren. Tali even plays poker with you and the engineers. You ask Mordin about crew condition and he tells you about the scale itch. It's clear that he's serving as a ship's doctor... which is odd now that I think of it. Why would he be doing that? Maybe its for research to come up with a seeker swarm counter.

On the SR-1 you Pressly and Williams. You had that admiral inspecting the Normandy also go off about alien crew. That's more negativity than I heard on the SR-2. The worst I heard was from Gardner, who talked about Asari head tentacles.

You jump to this while your post is about something completely different.

They all know very well that they are working with Cerberus, all of the crew that you talk to recognizes this as "working with Cerberus", the uniforms belong to a front company for terrorists, Miranda is the leader of a Cerberus cell, and she kept contact with TIM all the time, there is surveillance equipment from Cerberus, and EDI holds information concerning Cerberus.

All of that, is if none of the crew members get interrogated or testify.

Well, I was simply saying that the crew were not terrorists nor terribly loyal to Cerberus, except in that Cerberus is fighting the Reapers and Collectors. I regard this more as the Maquis in Deep Space 9. The Alliance wouldn't help, the Council does nothing but along comes an organization that claims that they want to recruit you to fight some cosmic villain. It will be rather hard to convict them of anything on that. 

Now, I'm not saying the Alliance wouldn't hold them for a period, if that's what this argument is about. However, good luck in convicting them of anything. Heck, good luck getting them into court. I'd like to see the testimony about the Collectors. I doubt the Alliance or an Earth government would dare risk putting them in front of a judge. And unless the Alliance has declared martial law (Can they even do that? It would be like NATO declaring martial law.), they can't hold the crew without charges.

But I think this is moot. The only way the got Shepard is if he surrendered to them. I can't imagine Shepard doing that without a deal that covered his crew. He probably voluntarily removed the SR-2 from Cerberus. 

[Cutlass Jack]

Skirata129 wrote...

I'm just going to say this. Cerberus is the only organization in the Mass Effect Universe that has had my back every step of the way, supported me and never thrown me under the bridge because of politics.

/debate

I know right? Like that time TIM set up that whole situation on Horizon putting an entire colony and a former teammate at risk so I could remove excess baggage from my life. Totally had my back on that one. Or all those other times he purposely withheld critical information that could have made a mission easier. Just to show he had confidence in me.

[Bad King]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

I'm just going to say this. Cerberus is the only organization in the Mass Effect Universe that has had my back every step of the way, supported me and never thrown me under the bridge because of politics.

/debate

I know right? Like that time TIM set up that whole situation on Horizon putting an entire colony and a former teammate at risk so I could remove excess baggage from my life. Totally had my back on that one. Or all those other times he purposely withheld critical information that could have made a mission easier. Just to show he had confidence in me.

He put an entire colony at risk so that we could predict where the Collectors would land and fight them off. Not sure about 'all those other times' he withheld information, so I'm guessing you meant the collector ship. Had he informed Shepard the Collcetors could have been tipped off in any number of ways-

Remember, the shadow broker was on their side!

Modifié par Bad King, 23 juin 2011 - 07:54 .

[Ieldra]

This was not intended to be a Cerberus vs. Alliance thread.

I wonder why so many people have no appreciation for their crew in the light of what they went through together. This isn't about politics. This is about the simple mutual loyalty between a commander and his crew. I feel the SR2 crew has earned my trust as their commander for all that, as I have earned theirs when I saved them from the Collectors.

It is petty to discard the connection made thusly for reasons of ideology.

[Skirata129]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

I'm just going to say this. Cerberus is the only organization in the Mass Effect Universe that has had my back every step of the way, supported me and never thrown me under the bridge because of politics.

/debate

I know right? Like that time TIM set up that whole situation on Horizon putting an entire colony and a former teammate at risk so I could remove excess baggage from my life. Totally had my back on that one. Or all those other times he purposely withheld critical information that could have made a mission easier. Just to show he had confidence in me.

Actually I agreed with all of that except sending me into an ambush on the Reaper vessel. I honestly don't know what Bioware was thinking when they wrote that as it makes absolutely no sense story wise. if the Collectors were capable of intercepting FTL communications we would already have been F'd from the start.

The Horizon thing made perfect sense though. the Illusive man manipulated the collectors into attacking a target he knew about versus a random one, so we would be able to respond before they left. think about it this way, if a house is going to catch fire and there's nothing you can do about it, better that it's a house you know the location of versus a random one somewhere in the city.

[Sebby]

Bad King wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

I'm just going to say this. Cerberus is the only organization in the Mass Effect Universe that has had my back every step of the way, supported me and never thrown me under the bridge because of politics.

/debate

I know right? Like that time TIM set up that whole situation on Horizon putting an entire colony and a former teammate at risk so I could remove excess baggage from my life. Totally had my back on that one. Or all those other times he purposely withheld critical information that could have made a mission easier. Just to show he had confidence in me.

He put an entire colony at risk so that we could predict where the Collectors would land and fight them off. Not sure about 'all those other times' he withheld information, so I'm guessing you meant the collector ship. Had he informed Shepard the Collcetors could have been tipped off in any number of ways-

Remember, the shadow broker was on their side!

True, TIM's masterful planning lead to ambushing the Collectors and gaining vital intelligence. Mordin fully endorsed what he did and who am I to disagree?

[Aedan_Cousland]

I'm pretty sure we'll be getting new crewmembers perhaps with some who survived the SR1 destruction, but weren't in ME2. (Engineer Adams for example)

Your SR2 crew could have been wiped out, so they'll probably get around having to write dialogue for two different crews by just giving every player a new Alliance one.

[Son of Illusive Man]

Edit

Modifié par Son of Illusive Man, 23 juin 2011 - 09:26 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

I'm pretty sure we'll be getting new crewmembers perhaps with some who survived the SR1 destruction, but weren't in ME2. (Engineer Adams for example)

Your SR2 crew could have been wiped out, so they'll probably get around having to write dialogue for two different crews by just giving every player a new Alliance one.

Yes just like they'll get round the fact that Tali and Garrus could be dead by completely having them not in the squad in ME3 and just replaced by some new squadmates instead....

Oh wait, we know that isn't happening

One thing everyone in this topic seems to be forgetting is how they've said lots of people we've met before will be returning in ME3, I imagine that to include the crew as well.

[Aedan_Cousland]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

I'm pretty sure we'll be getting new crewmembers perhaps with some who survived the SR1 destruction, but weren't in ME2. (Engineer Adams for example)

Your SR2 crew could have been wiped out, so they'll probably get around having to write dialogue for two different crews by just giving every player a new Alliance one.

Yes just like they'll get round the fact that Tali and Garrus could be dead by completely having them not in the squad in ME3 and just replaced by some new squadmates instead....

Oh wait, we know that isn't happening

One thing everyone in this topic seems to be forgetting is how they've said lots of people we've met before will be returning in ME3, I imagine that to include the crew as well.

Tali & Garrus are major characters.

Minor crewmembers aren't. I'd bet on them just being replaced. From a lore point of view it would also be odd if Shep kept his Cerberus crew, since we know in ME3 he's back to commanding an Alliance vessel. Your crew in ME2 was civilian.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 23 juin 2011 - 09:34 .

[Bad King]

Skirata129 wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

I'm just going to say this. Cerberus is the only organization in the Mass Effect Universe that has had my back every step of the way, supported me and never thrown me under the bridge because of politics.

/debate

I know right? Like that time TIM set up that whole situation on Horizon putting an entire colony and a former teammate at risk so I could remove excess baggage from my life. Totally had my back on that one. Or all those other times he purposely withheld critical information that could have made a mission easier. Just to show he had confidence in me.

Actually I agreed with all of that except sending me into an ambush on the Reaper vessel. I honestly don't know what Bioware was thinking when they wrote that as it makes absolutely no sense story wise. if the Collectors were capable of intercepting FTL communications we would already have been F'd from the start.

I agree, this was pretty badly explained by BioWare. I just assume that TIM feared that the Shadow Broker would somehow find out and tip off the Collectors, but that's just my own little hypothesis.

[Son of Illusive Man]

Also, we know Anderson had Shepard's back when the Council tried to brand him a terrorist, so maybe he'll do the same against the alliance?

Maybe you get to keep the crew only if Anderson is the Ambassador

I'd hope that if the Alliance tries to make me lose the crew, I can fight back.  I'm willing to use violence to keep my crew.

Phaedon wrote...

Well, yeah, sure, that's why is actually in a hearing in the first place?
ME3 is certainly the 'redeeming' point for several Shepards and possibly some of the crewmates as well. But chances are that the Alliance has locked all of the crew up.

...yeah, I know that Joker has not been arrested, I am trying to find a rational explanation for that, still.

His hearing is for the events of the Arrival DLC, not for joining Cerberus.

[Wulfram]

Shepard may well be loyal to the team, but I'll find it difficult to accept if the Alliance has simply let the (ex) Cerberus crew stay on board the Normandy. Working for Cerberus should have consequences, they shouldn't just be welcomed back with open arms.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Minor crewmembers aren't. I'd bet on them just being replaced. From a lore point of view it would also be odd if Shep kept his Cerberus crew, since we know in ME3 he's back to commanding an Alliance vessel. Your crew in ME2 was civilian.

Yeah you are right, Chakwas and Joker were civilians as well so they'll get replaced as well, oh no we know they won't...

"But they were in Mass Effect"

Do I have to repeat the last paragraph in my previous post again?

As has been pointed out MOST of the Cerberus crew are ex-Alliance just as Joker and Chakwas are, thus therefore it is just as easy to bring them back just as well.

[Lunatic LK47]

Phaedon wrote...
Well, there is Jacob as well, who is still technically loyal to TIM as well, but nobody really likes Jacob, so that doesn't matter.

Uh, Jacob outright hated the organization's reputation. Talk to him during your second conversation on the Normandy when you pick the "I want to get to know you." Even TIM mentioned outright before Freedom's Progress that Jacob doesn't trust him.

[nitrog100]

It's all up in the air regarding what happened to your Cerberus crew. A lot of them seemed to be Alliance that quit to work with Shepard. Maybe he'll get them reinstated and make them his crew. I wonder if he could retain his Spectre status after Arrival...

[MonkeyKaboom]

Returning to the wreck of SR1 was one of the more emotionally charged moments in the game having been a ME1 veteran. I hope to see my crew back. That said, given the fact that one mission (with absolutely no combat at all) can be so moving due to the loss of the ship and some crew, I wouldn't be surprised if something does happen to them. I mean, it'd suck but it also could heighten the overall epicness of the game. A good story is emotional and there isn't much more moving than tragedy.