193 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

lazuli wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

^I'm sorry but how are Throw, Warp and Shockwave helpful against shielded enemies?

They stagger.  And who said I'd be using them on shielded enemies?  I'd be constantly advancing, spamming Throw Field for staggers and Tech Armor for survivability and more staggers, all while blasting away with my Scimitar.  The Sentinel would be even more unstoppable than it already is.

I don't think that will be possible with ME3 gameplay.

If that's the case cooldown of Tech armor should be then longer.
And I really don't see why people say Sentinel is overpowered.
Spamming Tech armor over and over again get's boring. I want use other powers too damn it.

[CajNatalie]

*summary of thread*

Mesina2: These are my opinions, this is how I play, so this is why I'm right
People who didn't RTFT: Global Cooldowns > Everything
Some People: Your suggestion has no real effect to anything but the Sentinel, but you claim they don't get any advantage from it so then it has no effect overall, right?
Other People: Why the hell would this be a good idea to encourage picking mis-matched powers such as GSB/Barrier for Soldiers instead of Fortification or Dominate for Infiltrators instead of Neural Shock?
Smart People who know how to play ME2: Sentinel still having their biotics and the Tech Armor hidden bonus makes them even more overpowered than they already are. Biotics remain useful... hell, even after you've used Overloard, that's one group of mook's shield's down (assuming Area Overload - the only viable evolution choice), so that's an instant opportunity to either Throw Field them all off a ledge or Pull Field+Warp Bomb for gr8 explosive justice since your biotics are available right away.
Mesina2: Nuh-uh I proofd you wrong already biotics are useless & Sentinel's aren't overpowered *fingers in ears*

Modifié par CajNatalie, 23 juin 2011 - 03:27 .

[MELTOR13]

Mesina2 wrote...

And how about you clarify that this is worse then global cooldown?
Nobody here proven me how is worse then global cooldown.

There are plenty of ways to exploit the system that you are recommending, PLUS, you forget that Shep always has teammates. So what if he can't use Overload immediately after Tech Armor, his teammates can. So now you've got a Sentinel Shep that has circumvented the semi-long cooldown on a really powerful ability like Tech Armor by simply only using biotics and allowing teammates to take care of other Tech powers, like Overload, etc. 

Consequently, classes like the Adept and Engineer aren't helped at all, in comparison, because all of their powers are the same type (all biotics or all tech, respectively). It doesn't even help the combat classes, Infiltrators and Vanguards, because their only differing power groups are combat powers (ammo powers) and biotics/tech, which doesn't help them at all. 

Your theory only helps Sentinels, making an already powerful class overpowered, while providing the other classes with no real benefits. 

[CroGamer002]

CajNatalie wrote...

*summary of thread*

Mesina2: These are my opinions, this is how I play, so this is why I'm right
People who didn't RTFT: Global Cooldowns > Everything

RTFT?

Some People: Your suggestion has no real effect to anything but the Sentinel, but you claim they don't get any advantage from it so then it has no effect overall, right?

No, it doesn't give too big advantage.
Just makes combat faster without unecesary wait for global cooldown do to 1 power.

Other People: Why the hell would this be a good idea to encourage picking mis-matched powers such as GSB/Barrier for Soldiers instead of Fortification or Dominate for Infiltrators instead of Neural Shock?

Why not? What's bad about diversity?
If it bother you then don't use it.

Smart People who know how to play ME2: Sentinel still having their biotics and the Tech Armor hidden bonus makes them even more overpowered than they already are. Biotics remain useful... hell, even after you've used Overloard, that's one group of mook's shield's down (assuming Area Overload - the only viable evolution choice), so that's an instant opportunity to either Throw Field them all off a ledge or Pull Field+Warp Bomb for gr8 explosive justice since your biotics are available right away.

First of all, NOBODY said that.
Second, there's no pull with Sentinel and no Warp bomb to be made. Also don't you need Singularity for that, which is only Adept's power?
Third, Throw can only stun enemy for 1-2 seconds if they have shields or barrier. I don't see that tactic successful with more then 2 enemies.

Mesina2: Nuh-uh I proofd you wrong already biotics are useless *fingers in ears*

OK, when are Biotics very useful that Sentinel has with shielded enemies?

[Kronner]

Mesina2 wrote...

OK, when are Biotics very useful that Sentinel has with shielded enemies?

You DO realize that you have 2 man squad with you..and that they can remove the shields, right?

Geez.

Point is, Global Cooldown allows for powerful abilities (especially the signature powers), if you start mixing it up, you'll end up with more, but less powerful options..and then, later in the game it will become a chore with no challenge whatsoever..see Mass Effect 1.

[CroGamer002]

MELTOR13 wrote...

There are plenty of ways to exploit the system that you are recommending, PLUS, you forget that Shep always has teammates. So what if he can't use Overload immediately after Tech Armor, his teammates can. So now you've got a Sentinel Shep that has circumvented the semi-long cooldown on a really powerful ability like Tech Armor by simply only using biotics and allowing teammates to take care of other Tech powers, like Overload, etc.

Simple solution is make Tech armor cooldown longer.

And really now, I can do more damage and faster with Engineer with Garrus and Miranda, then with Sentinel with same people since I don't need to wait for my bloody Tech armor cooldown with Engineer.

Is Engineer overpowered then or I just know how to use it?

Consequently, classes like the Adept and Engineer aren't helped at all, in comparison, because all of their powers are the same type (all biotics or all tech, respectively).

Cooldown of their powers is very short so I don't see a problem.

It doesn't even help the combat classes, Infiltrators and Vanguards, because their only differing power groups are combat powers (ammo powers) and biotics/tech, which doesn't help them at all.

Well for starters they can change their Ammo Power whenever they want instead of go to cover and wait for cooldown and why f*ck up something they can use Unity to heal themself while still in cooldown of their biotic/tech power.

Your theory only helps Sentinels, making an already powerful class overpowered, while providing the other classes with no real benefits.

Soldier + any tech/biotic bonus power
Adept + any combat/tech bonus power
Engineer + any combat/biotic bonus power

And I'm bringing Unity more use then it has in ME2.


And no I still don't see how the hell this only helps Sentinel and makes it overpowered.

[CroGamer002]

Kronner wrote...

You DO realize that you have 2 man squad with you..and that they can remove the shields, right?

When they can take out those defences my Tech armor can be on again in ME2.

Geez.

Point is, Global Cooldown allows for powerful abilities (especially the signature powers), if you start mixing it up, you'll end up with more, but less powerful options..and then, later in the game it will become a chore with no challenge whatsoever..see Mass Effect 1.

When the hell did I said we should mix signature powers?

Modifié par Mesina2, 23 juin 2011 - 03:52 .

[lazuli]

See, all we're discussing here is the Sentinel. This is because grouped cooldowns don't mean much for any other classes.

If you want to discuss splitting up cooldowns without returning to ME1's system of ~60 second periods of downtime, perhaps signature abilities could be on a separate cooldown from the class's other powers.

[CroGamer002]

lazuli wrote...

See, all we're discussing here is the Sentinel. This is because grouped cooldowns don't mean much for any other classes.

If you want to discuss splitting up cooldowns without returning to ME1's system of ~60 second periods of downtime, perhaps signature abilities could be on a separate cooldown from the class's other powers.

Reason why we discus Sentinel is because for some reason this suggestion makes it overpowered.

Also some people claim that Sentinel is already overpowered. Then in that case Tech armor should be nerfed.


And I already said that there are gains for other classes.
Just people love to ignore those gains do to Sentinel getting overpowered somehow.

Also every signature power but Tech armor and Cloak have short cooldown.
Very pointless.
And that would make Sentinel overpowered since it now can use Overload or Energy Drain.

[goofyomnivore]

I personally like the cooldown system as it is. However I hope classes such as the Vanguard and Soldier get less monotonous. Right now, most encounters the best option is to use the class power 90% of the time. I don't think changing the cooldown system would help that in a positive way. It is more of an encounter/lack of options issue.

Mass Effect was like WoW -- it had a global cooldown(cast animation) and seperate cooldowns for it's abilities. I don't know why someone suggested that. Most agree that system didn't work. The Devs certainly did by changing it.

[lazuli]

Mesina2 wrote...

And that would make Sentinel overpowered since it now can use Overload or Energy Drain.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why you keep coming back to Overload like it's the only skill worth using for Sentinels.

[CroGamer002]

lazuli wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

And that would make Sentinel overpowered since it now can use Overload or Energy Drain.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why you keep coming back to Overload like it's the only skill worth using for Sentinels.

I didn't say it's only worthy power.

But it is a fact that most enemies in ME2 and most certainly in ME3 will have shields.
Warp is not even nearly as useful as Overload against those.

And same thing for Barriers and Armor, Overload is not nearly as useful as Warp.


Warp can do damage, but not that much to overpower this class with this system.

Modifié par Mesina2, 23 juin 2011 - 04:16 .

[goofyomnivore]

Sentinel's Tech Armor needs to be trashed IMO. It is a balancing nightmare, and with two bonus powers that fill that niche it seems like a lazy class power. Barrier and GSB are not as godly, but they're useful and balanced,

I think Sentinel's could of been given an improved version of Damping. Basically a strong Tech CC that works through defenses on a short cooldown. I think that would boost their survivability like Tech Armor, and allow for more fluid and tactical gameplay.


I don't think group cooldowns are the answer, they do very little at best for pure classes. Just imagine being a Vanguard cycling between Charge and GSB.

Modifié par strive, 23 juin 2011 - 04:18 .

[MELTOR13]

@ Mesina

Did you even read my post? Making the cooldown on Tech Armor longer doesn't do anything. According to your system, SentinelShep could activate Tech Armor (a tech power) and then use any biotic power immediately afterward, since they are on separate cooldowns. It doesn't matter that the Sentinel can't use any other tech power for a while, he doesn't need them, that's what teammates are for.

I have no idea what the whole 'Engineer with Garrus and Miranda' spiel is even for, you're not making sense. If you are complaining that you think Sentinels are underpowered, please learn how to play the game, as they are probably the most versatile and powerful class in ME2.

Again, you are giving Sentinels a huge advantage over pure classes. So while yes, your little system doesn't technically HURT Adepts or Engineers, it doesn't help them either. Are you just trying to turn this into a 'buff the Sentinel' thread?

This system doesn't provide any benefits for the other classes. "Well they could change their ammo powers instead of waiting 4 seconds" is not a valid point, that's worthless.

Forcing players to take powers/abilities that contradict their current class is a horrible idea, in my mind. I don't want to be forced to take a tech power on my Adept just to circumvent that cooldown process.

At this point you're just rambling....I don't think you have a good grasp on the mechanics of ME2.

[lazuli]

Mesina2 wrote...
Warp can do damage, but not that much to overpower this class with this system.

You're forgetting Warp explosions.  Assault Sentinels are already overpowered.  With your proposal, there's nothing stopping an Assault Sentinel from keeping its Tech Armor up constantly while simultaneously spamming Warp bombs (with Jack, Jacob, Samara, or another squadmate for constant Pulls).  And shields?  Shoot 'em off.  Simple.  

It's clear you're passionate about your idea.  But that doesn't make it a good idea.  Explain how this would have any noteworthy effect on a class besides the Sentinel.

[Reever]

Ah, just leave it as it is >.<"

[MELTOR13]

Mesina2 wrote...

Also every signature power but Tech armor and Cloak have short cooldown.

Very false. 

Charge - base cooldown 6 seconds
Adrenaline Rush - base cooldown 3 seconds
Cloak - base cooldown 6 seconds
Combat Drone - base cooldown 3 seconds
Singularity - base cooldown 4.5 seconds
Tech Armor - base cooldown 12 seconds (doesn't lose power until destroyed, resets teammate cooldowns, etc. etc.)

Tech Armor has a long cooldown for a reason...it's an extremely useful and powerful ability. 
Charge and Cloak are on the same base cooldown at 6 seconds
Singularity is slightly faster at 4.5 seconds base cooldown.
Combat Drone and Adrenaline rush are the fastest at base cooldown of 3 seconds. 

[CroGamer002]

MELTOR13 wrote...

@ Mesina

Did you even read my post? Making the cooldown on Tech Armor longer doesn't do anything. According to your system, SentinelShep could activate Tech Armor (a tech power) and then use any biotic power immediately afterward, since they are on separate cooldowns. It doesn't matter that the Sentinel can't use any other tech power for a while, he doesn't need them, that's what teammates are for.

Try that with a lot of enemies that are both doding your attacks and trying to flank you.

I have no idea what the whole 'Engineer with Garrus and Miranda' spiel is even for, you're not making sense. If you are complaining that you think Sentinels are underpowered, please learn how to play the game, as they are probably the most versatile and powerful class in ME2.

No, Sentinel is not underpowered.
It's slower compared to Engineer and Adept.

All I do is to activate Tech armor, wait for cooldown, shoot, lose shields, wait for cooldown in cover, do same thing all over again, get bored, start using other powers that are far interesting and I make my progress far more faster.

So I'm basically playing Engineer with instead of Incarcerate I get Warp and no Combat Drone, just so I don't get bored of spamming my Tech armor.

Again, you are giving Sentinels a huge advantage over pure classes. So while yes, your little system doesn't technically HURT Adepts or Engineers, it doesn't help them either. Are you just trying to turn this into a 'buff the Sentinel' thread?

Then nerf the f*cking Tech armor since it's overpowered for some reason.

I'm sorry to try to make system that also goes with lore of this game.

This system doesn't provide any benefits for the other classes. "Well they could change their ammo powers instead of waiting 4 seconds" is not a valid point, that's worthless.

I'm sorry for trying to make this game with this system more fast paced and more with the lore.

Forcing players to take powers/abilities that contradict their current class is a horrible idea, in my mind. I don't want to be forced to take a tech power on my Adept just to circumvent that cooldown process.

You're not forced to use those powers.
And how is giving more choice to player bad?

At this point you're just rambling....I don't think you have a good grasp on the mechanics of ME2.

I do have good grasp on ME2 mechanics.
It is good, way better then ME1.

Even though it's much faster and more with the lore, it's still has moments for unnecessary slowing down pace of game and some stuff make no sense with lore.

[CroGamer002]

lazuli wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...
Warp can do damage, but not that much to overpower this class with this system.

You're forgetting Warp explosions.

Sentinel has no Singularity for that.

[lazuli]

Mesina2 wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...
Warp can do damage, but not that much to overpower this class with this system.

You're forgetting Warp explosions.

Sentinel has no Singularity for that.

Are you serious?  I explained in my post that you selectively quoted that the squadmates would be used for Pull.

And their cooldowns would constantly recharge due to the Sentinel spamming Tech Armor.

[CroGamer002]

MELTOR13 wrote...

Very false. 

Charge - base cooldown 6 seconds
Adrenaline Rush - base cooldown 3 seconds
Cloak - base cooldown 6 seconds
Combat Drone - base cooldown 3 seconds
Singularity - base cooldown 4.5 seconds
Tech Armor - base cooldown 12 seconds (doesn't lose power until destroyed, resets teammate cooldowns, etc. etc.)

Tech Armor has a long cooldown for a reason...it's an extremely useful and powerful ability. 
Charge and Cloak are on the same base cooldown at 6 seconds
Singularity is slightly faster at 4.5 seconds base cooldown.
Combat Drone and Adrenaline rush are the fastest at base cooldown of 3 seconds. 

OK, I was wrong about Cloak.
It seemed long to me when I played.

But still, it doesn't overpowers Sentinel in any way.
And we also have system that makes actual sense in game lore.

[CroGamer002]

lazuli wrote...

Are you serious?  I explained in my post that you selectively quoted that the squadmates would be used for Pull.

And their cooldowns would constantly recharge due to the Sentinel spamming Tech Armor.

Who the hell uses Jacob?

[MELTOR13]

^Samara and Jack have Pull too. Have you even played ME2??

[MELTOR13]

Mesina2 wrote...

No, Sentinel is not underpowered.
It's slower compared to Engineer and Adept.

All I do is to activate Tech armor, wait for cooldown, shoot, lose shields, wait for cooldown in cover, do same thing all over again, get bored, start using other powers that are far interesting and I make my progress far more faster.

So I'm basically playing Engineer with instead of Incarcerate I get Warp and no Combat Drone, just so I don't get bored of spamming my Tech armor.

All this tells me is that you don't know how to play a Sentinel. They can be played very fast and aggresively, just as every other class can.

The more you post, the more I get the feeling that you don't have a very good grasp on this game and it's mechanics. If you did, you would know that Sentinels can play extremely fast, their have the largest passive cooldown bonus for ANY class, AND their Tech Armor resets teammates' cooldowns. If you are playing a Sentinel and complaining about spamming Tech Armor then maybe you should learn how to play the class and not get your Tech Armor busted off repeatedly.

...Unless you are playing as an Assault Sentinel, in which case, you WANT your Tech Armor to deactivate repeatedly. Doubtful you are attempting to do that, considering the complaints you've made. 

[CroGamer002]

MELTOR13 wrote...

^Samara and Jack have Pull too. Have you even played ME2??

Yes I know.

But last time I checked Jack is also used rarely.

Also Samara is more known with Reave then with Pull.