193 réponses à ce sujet

[CajNatalie]

Mesina2 wrote...

CajNatalie wrote...
Splitting power cooldowns in a way that would benefit every class equally (for example, at the very least, there's the often suggested 'signature power on its own cooldown' idea) is a far more sound idea, if any changes are going to be made.

Hey guess what, you are either hypocrite or just not bright enough to see flaw in that suggestion.


When we have signature only cooldown with Tech Armor can you spot a problem here?

YOU CAN USE YOUR BIOTIC POWERS!
Like with my idea, but that is bad since you can use EVERY power but Tech armor.

So yeah, this idea you find good is terrible and overpowers Sentinel.
You fail.

The Adept can use their Biotics.
The Engineer can use their Techs.
There are no disadvantages to picking a power that suits your class, and a Sentinel with Fortification/Inferno Grenade can't have 3 powers set on triple spam.
Everyone can use any of their powers... rather than just the Sentinel using biotics and no advantages for anyone else.

The point is that it's balanced across all classes.
Learn 2 Logic.


Plus that isn't even what I'm necessarily suggesting. Hell, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Leave the cooldown system as it is.
Signature-seperate-cooldown is simply better than this pure crap you're promoting.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 24 juin 2011 - 11:36 .

[CroGamer002]

^Ain't broken don't fix it excuse is used with Halo and look what happen to that franchise. Every single game but Halo Wars is exactly the same.

And yes, Global Cooldown has problem.
It slows down game unnecessary some times and it makes no sense with lore.


Also how is my crap WORSE then signature only cooldown?
I already proved you it's not only same thing you're against my suggestion, it's even worse.

[Alphyn]

CajNatalie wrote...
Learn 2 Logic.

...

[Kronner]

Mesina2 wrote...

^Ain't broken don't fix it excuse is used with Halo and look what happen to that franchise. Every single game but Halo Wars is exactly the same.

And yes, Global Cooldown has problem.
It slows down game unnecessary some times and it makes no sense with lore.

Also how is my crap WORSE then signature only cooldown?
I already proved you it's not only same thing you're against my suggestion, it's even worse.

OK how about this:

I think your idea is really, really bad, because it does NOTHING for most classes.
If I want to play all-biotics Adept, I couldn't care less about tech powers cooldown..and I would be penalized for that by your brilliant idea (compared to Adept + Energy Drain bonus power - I could use biotics AND replenish my shields).
The same goes for Engineer + Reave etc.

This is friggin stupid idea that punishes pure combat, biotics, techs and does nothing significant for the hybrids (excluding all bonus powers), no thank you very much. Basically, only Sentinel would really benefit from this ****.

Modifié par Kronner, 24 juin 2011 - 12:00 .

[CroGamer002]

^Oh really?
This idea for encouraging people to use other bonus powers is BAD?



Also this suggestion tides with the lore of this game and makes combat faster with separating Ammo Powers from other powers and makes Omni-gel more usable.

[Lumikki]

In my opinion Group cool downs doesn't make any sense unless "characters" ability is somehow connected to same source of attribute.

Is it fair from gameplay perspective not to make all classes follow same rules?
No, but is it realistic, because not all classes are same kind.

Example if you run fast and get tired, this affects you ability do pysical actions. So all physical action are grouped to attribute what use physical attribute. How ever, if items get "tired", that mean only that item gets tired unless they share same power source.

Generally only difference is that grouping is more average, while single powers allows more burst actions.

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 juin 2011 - 12:19 .

[CroGamer002]

Lumikki wrote...

In my opinion Group cool downs doesn't make any sense unless "characters" ability is somehow connected to same source of attribute.

Is it fair from gameplay perspective not to make all classes follow same rules?
No, but is it realistic, because not all classes are same kind.

Example if you run fast and get tired, this affects you ability do pysical actions. So all physical action are grouped to attribute what use physical attribute. How ever, if items get "tired", that mean only that item gets tired unless they share same power source.

Now that's now creating war simulator.

And how does my suggestion not make sense without that?

[Kronner]

Mesina2 wrote...

^Oh really?
This idea for encouraging people to use other bonus powers is BAD?

Also this suggestion tides with the lore of this game and makes combat faster with separating Ammo Powers from other powers and makes Omni-gel more usable.

Yes, it is bad when you're an Engineer throughout ME1 and 2 and in ME3 you suddenly have biotic power.

And the "Global Cooldown is against the lore" is a load of horsecrap. There are plenty of gameplay decisions that do not follow "the lore" rules..and nobody cares. This is a videogame FFS.

Switching ammo power takes 1.5s.
Medi-gel on separate cooldown would result in invincible combo with certain powers e.g. Charge.

Seriously. This idea SUCKS. That is what I think and I told you why..it does nothing but forces the player to play in certain way and introduces a number of balancing issues.

Have I mentioned this idea sucks?

[Lumikki]

Mesina2 wrote...


And how does my suggestion not make sense without that?

You suggestion groups by types of actions, even when it does not sense at all. Meaning you try to make every type follow same grouping rules, based different type of "power" areas. When not all  "power" type area's behave same ways. Meaning some type's don't have shared power or attribute at all, they are induvidual by they nature.

1. Group by  type.
2. Group everyting
3. Group only what make sense as been grouped
4. Don't group anything.

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 juin 2011 - 12:35 .

[CroGamer002]

Kronner wrote...

Yes, it is bad when you're an Engineer throughout ME1 and 2 and in ME3 you suddenly have biotic power.

Last time I check I can be Engineer and have Biotic powers in both games.

And the "Global Cooldown is against the lore" is a load of horsecrap. There are plenty of gameplay decisions that do not follow "the lore" rules..and nobody cares. This is a videogame FFS.

And that's an excuse not to have gameplay go with the lore?
Even there is system for that?

Switching ammo power takes 1.5s.

Switch ammo after using some power will longer cooldown.
Oh right, you can't.
You have to wait.

Medi-gel on separate cooldown would result in invincible combo with certain powers e.g. Charge.

Cooldown of that thing should then be long.
45-60 seconds.

No longer can be used frequently unless you like to sit for long time.

Seriously. This idea SUCKS. That is what I think and I told you why..it does nothing but forces the player to play in certain way and introduces a number of balancing issues.

Have I mentioned this idea sucks?

And I already proved you it does not.

Only few tweaks are required and we have system that doesn't go against lore, still fast paced, hell even faster and it doesn't OP any class.

You just refuse to see that.

[CroGamer002]

Lumikki wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...


And how does my suggestion not make sense without that?

You suggestion groups by types of actions, even when it does not sense at all. Meaning you try to make every type follow same grouping rules, based different type of "power" areas. When not all  "power" type area's behave same ways. Meanign some type's don't have shared power or attribute at all.

1. Group by  type.
2. Group everyting
3. Group only what make sense as been grouped
4. Don't group anything.

OK, how does this grouping no sense?
Do I need to write description why it does even though answer is obvious?

[Lumikki]

Mesina2 wrote...

OK, how does this grouping no sense?
Do I need to write description why it does even though answer is obvious?

Example technology toys has induvidual power inside them, so there is no reason why player can use different technology toys even same time.

[CroGamer002]

Lumikki wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

OK, how does this grouping no sense?
Do I need to write description why it does even though answer is obvious?

Example technology toys has induvidual power inside them, so there is no reason why player can use different technology toys even same time.

Omni-tool can malfunction by doing that.
Biotics will get too tired for spamming their powers without pausing and become useless in combat.

[Kronner]

Mesina2 wrote...

Last time I check I can be Engineer and have Biotic powers in both games.

So what? I said if I were an Engineer in ME1 and ME2, I could use tech powers only and there was no penalty for that. In your system, it introduces the penalty and I am basically forced to use biotic or combat powers.

Mesina2 wrote...
And that's an excuse not to have gameplay go with the lore?
Even there is system for that?

No idea what you mean. Point is, "it's against the lore" does not support anything, because gameplay >>> lore.

Mesina2 wrote...
Switch ammo after using some power will longer cooldown.
Oh right, you can't.
You have to wait.

Yes. And then I'll switch the ammo and wait 1.5s. LOL
Ammo powers are rarely switched back and forth anyway.

Cooldown of that thing should then be long.
45-60 seconds.

No longer can be used frequently unless you like to sit for long time.

Brilliant. Now when my squadmate dies and I use medigel and then the other one dies too, I'll have to wait 45-60s before I can revive that one too. And they do die from time to time, their AI sucks.

Brilliant.

And I already proved you it does not.

Only few tweaks are required and we have system that doesn't go against lore, still fast paced, hell even faster and it doesn't OP any class.

You just refuse to see that.

You proved nothing, it still sucks.
I am done with this thread..it's not worth it and this PoS system won't be in ME3 anyway.

Modifié par Kronner, 24 juin 2011 - 12:48 .

[Alienmorph]

Group cooldown doesn't sound a so bad idea. Only maybe I'd apply different times of cooldown to different classes for balance, so for example biotic powers have a quickier cooldown for biotic classes, engineers have quicker cooldown for tech powers, and the soldier has 0 cooldown bonuses (so global cooldown at least for them) because it's a class focused on the use of weapons among powers.

Also, accusing of trolling a person who sees and "a or b?" dibate and adds a "c" option looking for a compromise seems a really lame thing imoh.

[Lumikki]

Mesina2 wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Example technology toys has induvidual power inside them, so there is no reason why player can use different technology toys even same time.

Omni-tool can malfunction by doing that.
Biotics will get too tired for spamming their powers without pausing and become useless in combat.

I'm not conside is it fun or fair. I'm just saying it doens't make any sense in some cases.
Also there is a lot more techno toys than just omni-tool.

Let me use infiltrator as example.

You say infiltrator can't use stealth same time than using AI-hacking?
(Both are techno toys)

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 juin 2011 - 12:47 .

[CroGamer002]

Kronner wrote...

So what? I said if I were an Engineer in ME1 and ME2, I could use tech powers only and there was no penalty for that. In your system, it introduces the penalty and I am basically forced to use biotic or combat powers.

Here's a solution.
You may have longer cooldown BUT you have much big bonus using Tech bonus power on Engineer.
So you'll go for quantity of using Barrier or go for quality Geth Shield Boost that gives you more and longer protection and maybe bonus is damage.

No idea what you mean. Point is, "it's against the lore" does not support anything, because gameplay >>> lore.

Lore should serve gameplay, but that doesn't mean they should go against each other.
And this solution is easy fix.

1.5s

LOL

So my Cloak has 1.5 second cooldown?

Brilliant. Now when my squadmate dies and I use medigel and then the other one dies too, I'll have to wait 45-60s before I can revive that one too. And they do die from time to time, their AI sucks.

Brilliant.

Improve A.I. then?

Oh, you're right.
We should have sh*tty A.I. just for the sake of using Omni-gel.

You proved nothing, it still sucks.
I am done with this thread..it's not worth it and this PoS system won't be in ME3 anyway.

In that case every other thread on this forum shouldn't exist.
Because fans can't suggest some new idea or find something( Ashley outfit) not good.


Brilliant.

[CroGamer002]

Lumikki wrote...

I'm not conside is it fun or fair. I'm just saying it doens't make any sense in some cases.
Also there is a lot more techno toys than just omni-tool.

Let me use infiltrator as example.

You say infiltrator can't use stealth same time than using AI-hacking?
(Both are techno toys)

Maybe because Omni-tool is concentrated on Cloaking you and it can't go and A.I. hack until Cloaking is done and it has to not be push to the limits so it doesn't get broken.

[CroGamer002]

Alienmorph wrote...

Group cooldown doesn't sound a so bad idea. Only maybe I'd apply different times of cooldown to different classes for balance, so for example biotic powers have a quickier cooldown for biotic classes, engineers have quicker cooldown for tech powers, and the soldier has 0 cooldown bonuses (so global cooldown at least for them) because it's a class focused on the use of weapons among powers.

This.

Also Tech powers on Engineer have big bonus too.
Same for Adept with Biotic powers.

Hybrid classes don't get much of the bonus and cooldown is normal.

For classes without either Biotic, Tech or Combat skill get no bonus and cooldown is much more longer for that bonus power.

Also, accusing of trolling a person who sees and "a or b?" dibate and adds a "c" option looking for a compromise seems a really lame thing imoh.

Wouldn't say opinion, but common sense, but I agree.

[Lumikki]

Mesina2 wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

You say infiltrator can't use stealth same time than using AI-hacking?
(Both are techno toys)

Maybe because Omni-tool is concentrated on Cloaking you and it can't go and A.I. hack until Cloaking is done and it has to not be push to the limits so it doesn't get broken.

Yeah, but that's the problem. You are trying to force grouping even when it doens't really make much sense. You can allways find some explanation why, but is it okey to force everyting in to same rules, when they don't really fit well in it. So, what's you reason why it should be done so?

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 juin 2011 - 12:59 .

[CroGamer002]

Lumikki wrote...

Yeah, but that's the problem. You are trying to force grouping even when it doens't really make much sense. You can allways find some explanation why, but is it okey to force everyting in to same rules, when they don't really fit well in it.

Ha?

How am I forcing groups?

A.I. Hacking and Cloak are Tech powers and used with Omni-tool.
Check Mass Effect Wiki if you don't believe.

Or better yet, go and play Infiltrator and tell me how Shepard activates both of this powers.

[Lumikki]

Mesina2 wrote...

Ha?

How am I forcing groups?

A.I. Hacking and Cloak are Tech powers and used with Omni-tool.
Check Mass Effect Wiki if you don't believe.

Or better yet, go and play Infiltrator and tell me how Shepard activates both of this powers.

Omni tool is central control tool of allmost every tecnology power (like remote control). How ever, they aren't the one creates every effects of the technology power.

Example can you answer these questions.

How does omni-tool create stealth?
Where is this omni-tool as physically?
How is stealth created?
Where is stealth technology in physically?

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 juin 2011 - 01:12 .

[CroGamer002]

m14567 wrote...

I don't see any value in this idea either especially when you can use your squadmates' powers, and you know work as a team, scary concept. It only benefits hybrid classes like others have stated or pure classes that take an out of class power (i.e. adepts with a tech bonus power).

And like I, AdmiralCheez, Alienmorph stated, we should give big bonuses for pure classes while hybrids get normal, while class that doesn't have Tech/Biotic/Combat skill get's penalized withl onger cooldwon and no bonus.

Bioware should make a new difficult level called 'Lore' and not even care if it is even remotely balanced with the following properties:

1) Unlimited ammo guns.

Thermal clips make sense in lore.

2) Biotics that work on everything, always.

Wrong, Biotics has huge drawback.
They get tired very fast.
Check Codex.
ME1 was very against BIotic lore.
ME2 was almost perfect with lore( Warp ammo actualy doesn't make sense).

3) All powers on individual cooldown.

ME1 was very against lore with individual cooldown.

Have fun playing on god-mode!

You are right, this what you said would suck.
But that's not what I'm suggesting and 2 out of 3 things you said are even against lore.

[CroGamer002]

Lumikki wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Ha?

How am I forcing groups?

A.I. Hacking and Cloak are Tech powers and used with Omni-tool.
Check Mass Effect Wiki if you don't believe.

Or better yet, go and play Infiltrator and tell me how Shepard activates both of this powers.

Omni tool is central control tool of allmost every tecnology power (like remote control). How ever, they aren't the one creates every effects of the technology power.

Example can you answer these questions.

How does omni-tool create stealth?
Where is this omni-tool as physically?
How is stealth created?
Where is stealth technology in physically?

Ask Phaedon.

He has explanation for that.
I really won't bother look for it since it's buried in many threads, but I'm sure he has it ready for copy/paste for every time someone complains about Omni-tool.