193 réponses à ce sujet

[MELTOR13]

You're just trying too hard to fix a system that doesn't really need fixing. You're trying to re-invent the wheel, when we already have a wheel that works perfectly fine. We appreciate that you're attempting to 'fix' this cooldown system for everybody, but your solution would require a severe overhaul of combat mechanics, something that, simply put, would be stupid to implement at this point, considering that ME2 combat was extremely refined already.

[Lumikki]

Mesina2 wrote...

I really won't bother look for it since it's buried in many threads, but I'm sure he has it ready for copy/paste for every time someone complains about Omni-tool.

I don't complain about omni-tool, I'm complaining you to make so that all technology is same as omni-tool. Then group it around like it's one and same. You simplify things so that you can group then, why you do that?

Armor it self has technology too and it's not physically in omni-tool, but that doesn't mean it can't be fully controlled by omni-tool as it's ment to be central control unit.


It's little like you make todays remote control to be all technology that there is, even when actual technology is seperated in else where. Then you say these seperated tehnology stuff can't be used same time, because this remote control has universal cool time based what technology you use. I many not been able activate these diffrent technology same time, but hell I should be able to use them in same time. Meaning I can watch TV while I listen radio and use my computer.

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 juin 2011 - 01:34 .

[CroGamer002]

MELTOR13 wrote...

You're just trying too hard to fix a system that doesn't really need fixing. You're trying to re-invent the wheel, when we already have a wheel that works perfectly fine. We appreciate that you're attempting to 'fix' this cooldown system for everybody, but your solution would require a severe overhaul of combat mechanics, something that, simply put, would be stupid to implement at this point, considering that ME2 combat was extremely refined already.

Wrong.

It only requires few tweaks.

I mentioned that in previous page and updated OP with example.


Also there is problem with global cooldown.
Not only is against the lore( individual cooldown is also against), it also unnecessary slows down game.
Not something game braking by any means or something that would make people rage quit, but still can be minor annoyance.

Well with exception of lore, that is big problem. Many aren't bother with that, neither am I, but solution of that is simple.
Group cooldown.

Neither gameplay nor lore suffers.

[goofyomnivore]

You say lore doesn't suffer, but then advocate an Engineer to take a biotic bonus power for the cooldown, to get the most out of your "system".

Last time I checked the Engineer class didn't get implants, so them using biotics isn't "lore". It is a gameplay concept the player can choose to have or not. In your system they would be punished for not going outside the lore.

Modifié par strive, 24 juin 2011 - 01:38 .

[CroGamer002]

Lumikki wrote...

I don't complain about omni-tool, I'm complaining you to make so that all technology is same as omni-tool. Then group it around like it's one and same. You simplify things so that you can group then, why you do that?

All this techs are used by same tool.
I don't see the problem with simplifying them in 1 group that makes sense.

Armor it self has technology too and it's not physically in omni-tool, but that doesn't mean it can't be fully controlled by omni-tool as it's ment to be central control unit.

Correct, but Fortification is not used by Omni-tool.
It's purely some different tech used on armor that can be simplifed in either Other group or Combat power group.

Doesn't make too much sense with lore, but definitely better then individual and global cooldown for both lore and game.

It's little like you make todays remote control to be all technology that there is, even when actual technology is seperated in else where. Then you say these seperated tehnology stuff can't be used same time, because this remote control has universal cool time based what technology you use. I many not been able activate these diffrent technology same time, but hell I should be able to use them in same time. Meaning I can watch TV while I listen radio and use my computer.

Can you, you know, turn on TV with same remote as radio?
Can you do it at same time?

Also this are very powerful stuff you make with Omni-tool that also conserve a lot of energy.
Remote comparison is not very good.

Also with Omni-tool I'm sure you can analyze stuff and have flashlight.
Why? It's very small. It won't effect Omni-tool efficiency.

Kinda like when I use my Combat Drone and just 2-3 seconds later I can use any other power?
Why? Combat Drone is not too powerful to use with other stuff.

[goofyomnivore]

I don't really buy the "slow downs the game" either. Maybe if you're spamming Barrier, GSB, and Tech Armor all the time, but if you're having to use those abilities frequently, then that is a problem with your tactics.

An Adept and Sentinel can pretty much fluidly cast an array of abilities. Pull-Throw, Cryo-Throw, etc. All are on short cooldowns that are refreshed during the projectile time. Singularity and Warp are also nearly refreshed by the time of impact. An Engineer isn't as fluid because most of it's abilities are instant cast, but it doesn't operate any slower. It is actually probably an advantage since it can spend more time shooting.

Hybrids aren't as fluid, but they're not designed to be. They are "weak" casters that exploit one ability to improve their combat prowess(guns). You can still weave abilities with a Vanguard and Infiltrator though. Pull/Slam and Neural Shock come to my mind. The Soldier is limited because it only has one ability.

[CroGamer002]

strive wrote...

You say lore doesn't suffer, but then advocate an Engineer to take a biotic bonus power for the cooldown, to get the most out of your "system".

Last time I checked the Engineer class didn't get implants, so them using biotics isn't "lore". It is a gameplay concept the player can choose to have or not. In your system they would be punished for not going outside the lore.

Wiki says Shepard got implant when he/she was 17.
It doesn't say it is exclusive to Biotic classes.

Shepard could have got those implants but decided to go and not to master Biotic skills and instead become a combat or tech professional.


Not every Asari uses her Biotics even though every single one is born with it.

[Lumikki]

Mesina2 wrote...

Neither gameplay nor lore suffers.

I have to disagree with this.

You try to bush idea so that every same type of ability is used as serial and can't be used parallel. You don't care that even in same type of abilities there can be also different kind of abilities. Example in gameplay as unable to use defense and offensive same time, if they belong to same type, while you allow different types be used just fine.

[goofyomnivore]

Mesina2 wrote...
Wiki says Shepard got implant when he/she was 17.
It doesn't say it is exclusive to Biotic classes.

Shepard could have got those implants but decided to go and not to master Biotic skills and instead become a combat or tech professional.


Not every Asari uses her Biotics even though every single one is born with it.

Uh I would like to see that link. And also during the Lazarus load screen, the place where implants are supose to be, are replaced with "tech" goodies, and the fact that implants aren't even mentioned, seems to support they didn't add those to Shepard, unless he is a biotic.

Modifié par strive, 24 juin 2011 - 01:53 .

[CroGamer002]

m14567 wrote...


BFD, you can get Jesus Christ on your side and I still thing it is a bad idea.  How do you deal with

Adept with Barrier vs Adept with GSB?

GSB is on a separate cooldown but Adept still gets "big" bonus on biotic powers?

Easy.
Not only that cooldown of Barrier is shorter( 6-8 seconds) on Adept, Barrier gives either 150% shield bonus or it last 3 minutes instead of 2 minutes and also gives 5-10% extra damage for Biotic powers.

As for draw back with GSB?
Same as Soldier and it would be same with Vanguard.

People use the 'realism' or 'lore' to try and ram their personal preference through as gospel.

Feel the same when people say it's with lore that Biotics should spam their powers without reading the Codex about that.

[Lumikki]

Mesina2 wrote...

Can you, you know, turn on TV with same remote as radio?
Can you do it at same time?

YES, I can do that with my remote control.
My remote control has ability turn multible device ON same time with one push of button.
I know that's not what meaned, but it actually can do it.

Point isn't that can you turn them ON. Coold down isn't turning ON them, it's wait time before you can turn ON other device. In remote control there isn't much wait time, you can push the buttons as fast you can. You know this.

So, this isn't about can you turn on, this is about can you use different same type of abilities same time.

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 juin 2011 - 01:59 .

[CroGamer002]

strive wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...
Wiki says Shepard got implant when he/she was 17.
It doesn't say it is exclusive to Biotic classes.

Shepard could have got those implants but decided to go and not to master Biotic skills and instead become a combat or tech professional.


Not every Asari uses her Biotics even though every single one is born with it.

Uh I would like to see that link. And also during the Lazarus load screen, the place where implants are supose to be, are replaced with "tech" goodies, and the fact that implants aren't even mentioned, seems to support they didn't add those to Shepard, unless he is a biotic.

Check Mass Effect Timeline.

Also Cerberus could have give those implants.
How can game know that your Shepard can be Biotic that decided not to master Biotics and instead go with different carrier?

[CajNatalie]

Every time someone shoots down this crap, you have to resort to saying 'oh let's just change this this this and this', like you were saying to change Overload, then Warp, then Tech Armor, then bonus talents to have BIIIIG bonuses... your PoS idea is so fragile it requires a complete overhaul of the entire game's mechanics.

Give it up, dude. Give it the hell up.
BioWare would not do this... it's way too much work and they have a system that works well for gameplay as it is.

[CroGamer002]

strive wrote...

I don't really buy the "slow downs the game" either. Maybe if you're spamming Barrier, GSB, and Tech Armor all the time, but if you're having to use those abilities frequently, then that is a problem with your tactics.

I have Cryo Ammo on, went Cloak, YMIR Mechs shows up and I have great shot at it but instead of switching to Disruptor Ammo( and nothing but game mechanic is stopping me) I have to wait for my Cloak to end, wait for cooldown, then switch to Disruptor Ammo then go to cloak and shoot.
I can shoot with Cryo Ammo but I do less damage.
So it makes fight longer even though nothing should have stop me to switch to Disruptor Ammo.

[CroGamer002]

CajNatalie wrote...

Every time someone shoots down this crap, you have to resort to saying 'oh let's just change this this this and this', like you were saying to change Overload, then Warp, then Tech Armor, then bonus talents to have BIIIIG bonuses... your PoS idea is so fragile it requires a complete overhaul of the entire game's mechanics.

Give it up, dude. Give it the hell up.
BioWare would not do this... it's way too much work and they have a system that works well for gameplay as it is.

I didn't said this system is outright perfect.
It needs few tweaks.


And really now, I stop caring about your opinion about this after you called me troll for just not liking my idea.

Plus big hypocrisy with idea you think it's good.

[CajNatalie]

If a YMIR shows up, you switch to your Locust/Tempest pre-modded with Disruptor. Then switch back to your Phalanx/Carnifex once its shields are down.
Besides, switching ammo wastes enough time to negate some of the damage you could've done if you'd just shot the damn thing from the start.

Edit: And Mesina2, thanks for letting me know you stopped caring.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 24 juin 2011 - 02:06 .

[CroGamer002]

Lumikki wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Can you, you know, turn on TV with same remote as radio?
Can you do it at same time?

YES, I can do that with my remote control.
My remote control has ability turn multible device ON same time with one push of button.
I know that's not what meaned, but it actually can do it.

Point isn't that can you turn them ON. Coold down isn't turning ON them, it's wait time before you can turn ON other device. In remote control there isn't much wait time, you can push the buttons as fast you can. You know this.

So, this isn't about can you turn on, this is about can you use different same type of abilities same time.

You have a cool remote then.

But still, it is not the same to turn on TV or radio and to cast Incinerate or A.I. Hacking.

[CroGamer002]

CajNatalie wrote...

If a YMIR shows up, you switch to your Locust/Tempest pre-modded with Disruptor. Then switch back to your Phalanx/Carnifex once its shields are down.
Besides, switching ammo wastes enough time to negate some of the damage you could've done if you'd just shot the damn thing from the start.

And what if I use those Tempest/Locust with Cryo ammo?

What if I prefer to shoot normal enemies with that, while for mini-bosses use Disruptor then?

[CajNatalie]

There are few enough YMIRs in the game to be able to memorize exactly when you'll face each one of them. Prepare beforehand. A YMIR should never be a surprise beyond the first or second time you face them.

[Dexi]

Until a second ago, I did not understand what Mesina wants to achieve through this thread.

Now I did: he wanted to troll. And he brilliantly succeeded!

I applaud you, mister! Keep on trollin'!

[goofyomnivore]

Check Mass Effect Timeline.

Also Cerberus could have give those implants.
How can game know that your Shepard can be Biotic that decided not to master Biotics and instead go with different carrier?

All the timeline says is he was could of been exposed to eezo. It doesn't say anything about implants or amps. Unless you're using a bugged dialogue from Kaidan as a reference source, only Sentinel, Adept, and Vanguard can be biotics with amps/implants.

I have Cryo Ammo on, went Cloak, YMIR Mechs shows up and I have great shot at it but instead of switching to Disruptor Ammo( and nothing but game mechanic is stopping me) I have to wait for my Cloak to end, wait for cooldown, then switch to Disruptor Ammo then go to cloak and shoot.
I can shoot with Cryo Ammo but I do less damage.
So it makes fight longer even though nothing should have stop me to switch to Disruptor Ammo.

Actually it wouldn't make a difference, because if you don't switch Ammo powers you get extra shots. I think Boz proved that to be true in another thread about ammo powers.

[CroGamer002]

m14567 wrote...

So an Adept who uses Barrier is locked of out his other powers for 6-8 seconds while an Adept who uses GSB can keep spamming his other biotics powers but is locked out of GSB for what 12 seconds?

18-20 seconds, not 12.

Also Adept can have bonus in Biotic damage.
Also Barrier, GSB and Fortification are used for life saving situations.

You'll be more concerned in falling back to cover.

The problem with all this is that is just purely hypothetical, you have no way of testing, you just throw it out there as the 'better way'.  If Bioware switches to this nonsense, they'd basically be going back to base zero and have to consider how all the different group powers interact.  That is a waste of time to me because the current method works just fine and I'd rather seem them introduce new powers rather than worry about how all powers now interact due to a significant change that just isn't justified.

Well that's why it's called suggestion.

I'm suggesting this to Bioware to consider this and maybe test it out.

[CroGamer002]

strive wrote...

All the timeline says is he was could of been exposed to eezo. It doesn't say anything about implants or amps. Unless you're using a bugged dialogue from Kaidan as a reference source, only Sentinel, Adept, and Vanguard can be biotics with amps/implants.

Mass Effect Timeline...
2171 CE

In protest at the refusal of the Citadel Council to limit human expansion in the Skyllian Verge, the batarians close their embassy, withdraw into their home systems, and effectively become a rogue state.

Shepard is officially detected as a biotic and fitted with L3 implants.

Cerberus assassinates Pope Clement XVI on Earth via rosary beads coated with toxic substances; his death is attributed to age and heart failure. His successor, Pope Leo XIV, espouses beliefs more in-line with Cerberus' ideals.

Doesn't say anything more then that.

Actually it wouldn't make a difference, because if you don't switch Ammo powers you get extra shots. I think Boz proved that to be true in another thread about ammo powers.

wut?

Modifié par Mesina2, 24 juin 2011 - 02:18 .