193 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumikki]

Mesina2 wrote...

But still, it is not the same to turn on TV or radio and to cast Incinerate or A.I. Hacking.

I know, but..

I don't think it's good idea gather ALL same type abilities to one global cool down timer. If the abilities it self are also same type with same kind of actions then it can make sense, but you have to also consider that not all abilities in same type are allways same kind. If you do that it can hurt players gameplay option when all action are serial and not allowing parallel actions at all, even when nature of action can be totally different.

So, while agree that global cool time can sometimes make sense, it doesn't mean it fits well to everyting.

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 juin 2011 - 02:26 .

[goofyomnivore]

@Mesina2

Click on the source of the timeline, regarding Shepard being a biotic. Read it, notice "Shepard is a L3 because Kaidan says something like "I spike higher than L3s except for you, Commander." Read furthur down regarding it to be a bug in dialogue, or just deduce that it is a bug from Kaidan saying a Soldier is spiking higher than him. And then read some more, how they left it on the timeline for Adepts, Sentinels, and Vanguards.

If you're going to use a wiki at least look at it's source.

Not to mention, the fact you can have implants and have zero biotics. TSA made it mandatory for children in Singapore to have implants from that accident. Even if they don't have any biotics.

I mean you can say, "I got implants, but never showed any potential until I did New Game+!!!!!". Whatever helps your "lore". lol

As for swapping ammo powers. You can shoot in the 1.5-2.5s or however long it takes to activate an ammo power. The small damage bonus you gain from swapping barely breaks even at the end.

Modifié par strive, 24 juin 2011 - 02:37 .

[lovgreno]

Hmmm... It seems like the ammo powers are kind of the heart of the problem here (unless I missunderstood everyone completely again). Well in my opinion the use of ammo clips should independent from the use the use of the omni tool or biotic implants from a story point of wiev. It may not be practical from a gameplay point of wiev though.

How about just giving the ammo a cooldown of their own and have every squadmate share the same type of ammo? You could choose three types of ammo to use before leaving the Normandy to make it more important to choose right. Perhaps the soldier can have five or so types of ammo as they are more dependant on the shooty stuff. Shepard could shout cool things like: "Freeze them to the ground!", "Send them to the lake of fire!", "Fry their circuits", etc... I admit I may have to work on my skills in writing cool battleshouts.

This was not intended as an attempt to derail things. Sorry Mesina2, but inspiration struck me.

Modifié par lovgreno, 24 juin 2011 - 02:44 .

[CroGamer002]

strive wrote...

@Mesina2

Click on the source of the timeline, regarding Shepard being a biotic. Read it, notice "Shepard is a L3 because Kaidan says something like "I spike higher than L3s except for you, Commander." Read furthur down regarding it to be a bug in dialogue, or just deduce that it is a bug from Kaidan saying a Soldier is spiking higher than him. And then read some more, how they left it on the timeline for Adepts, Sentinels, and Vanguards.

If you're going to use a wiki at least look at it's source.

Care to tell me where's that source?

Not to mention, the fact you can have implants and have zero biotics. TSA made it mandatory for children in Singapore to have implants from that accident. Even if they don't have any biotics.

And?

As for swapping ammo powers. You can shoot in the 1.5-2.5s or however long it takes to activate an ammo power. The small damage bonus you gain from swapping barely breaks even at the end.

Riiight...

[goofyomnivore]

http://masseffect.wi...d=12684|article

Look @ the changes and the edits of that page. Only Vanguard, Sentinel, and Adept are biotics.

For more information scroll to the bottom look @ this and read it.

KNOWN HUMAN BIOTICS
COMMANDER SHEPARD (POSSIBLY) SEE TALK.


Just take what we know in game, the only way a non biotic class can become a biotic is through NG+. Isn't that enough proof? "I unlocked my biotic potential through NG+!"

I promise you. Shoot a YMIR's shield with a Mattock no ammo power and time it. Shoot again start the timer when you begin to swap to disrupter ammo, notice how they strip the shield in the exact same time. The dps you gain from juggling ammo powers is a myth. Not to mention swapping ammo powers kills your cooldowns like you mentioned for a trivial gain.

If you count the whole YMIR fight, you're maybe saving 1 emptied clip  or 6s~ of time. By swapping to Disrupter ammo. That could arguably be offset by Cryo freezing the mech in health.

Ammo powers are garbage for damage on higher difficulties. The two best ones are Inferno and Cryo for the CC. Not the damage.

Modifié par strive, 24 juin 2011 - 02:49 .

[MELTOR13]

Mesina2 wrote...

Wrong.

It only requires few tweaks.

I mentioned that in previous page and updated OP with example.


Also there is problem with global cooldown.
Not only is against the lore( individual cooldown is also against), it also unnecessary slows down game.
Not something game braking by any means or something that would make people rage quit, but still can be minor annoyance.

I'm sorry dude, but you're not a video game designer, I doubt you know what requires 'a few tweaks' and what requires a complete overhaul. This would require more than 'a few tweaks'. Again, you're trying to reinvent the wheel. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the current system, it plays very well. I think the popularity of ME2 is a testament to that. Besides, this is pointless, considering BioWare has already stated that global cooldowns are coming back and theres a 99% chance that don't change the system at all, other than some minor tweaks to powers, etc. 

[CroGamer002]

strive wrote...

http://masseffect.wi...d=12684|article

Look @ the changes and the edits of that page. Only Vanguard, Sentinel, and Adept are biotics.

For more information scroll to the bottom look @ this and read it.

KNOWN HUMAN BIOTICS
COMMANDER SHEPARD (POSSIBLY) SEE TALK.

You point me at nowhere.

Just take what we know in game, the only way a non biotic class can become a biotic is through NG+. Isn't that enough proof? "I unlocked my biotic potential through NG+!"

New Shepard if you did achievement in ME1.
Anytime after you do squadmate loyalty missions in ME2.

Not NG+.

I promise you. Shoot a YMIR's shield with a Mattock no ammo power and time it. Shoot again start the timer when you begin to swap to disrupter ammo, notice how they strip the shield in the exact same time. The dps you gain from juggling ammo powers is a myth. Not to mention swapping ammo powers kills your cooldowns like you mentioned for a trivial gain.

If you count the whole YMIR fight, you're maybe saving 1 emptied clip  or 6s~ of time. By swapping to Disrupter ammo. That could arguably be offset by Cryo freezing the mech in health.

Ammo powers are garbage for damage on higher difficulties. The two best ones are Inferno and Cryo for the CC. Not the damage.

Mattock is overpowered.
I don't like to use that rifle.

[Nashiktal]

MELTOR13 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Wrong.

It only requires few tweaks.

I mentioned that in previous page and updated OP with example.


Also there is problem with global cooldown.
Not only is against the lore( individual cooldown is also against), it also unnecessary slows down game.
Not something game braking by any means or something that would make people rage quit, but still can be minor annoyance.

I'm sorry dude, but you're not a video game designer, I doubt you know what requires 'a few tweaks' and what requires a complete overhaul. This would require more than 'a few tweaks'. Again, you're trying to reinvent the wheel. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the current system, it plays very well. I think the popularity of ME2 is a testament to that. Besides, this is pointless, considering BioWare has already stated that global cooldowns are coming back and theres a 99% chance that don't change the system at all, other than some minor tweaks to powers, etc. 

While you have a point that this simple change would require balancing throughout the game, I have to contest one of your facts.

Global cooldown would have little to do with how popular ME2 is, at least by itself. Even games that have terrible, and I mean TERRIBLE minor systems can sell millions if the rest of the product is up to par.

[goofyomnivore]

Sigh if you don't read, I can't help you. I even caps'd where to go.

The vanilla game does not have Engineers with biotics. That is the point. Any other way to get biotics on an Engineer is through optional gameplay and choices. It is not CANON AKA LORE. If your Shepard is a biotic Engineer more power to you, but don't say it is "lore or canonical".

It works with any weapon, was using the Mattock as an example.

Modifié par strive, 24 juin 2011 - 03:08 .

[CroGamer002]

MELTOR13 wrote...

I'm sorry dude, but you're not a video game designer, I doubt you know what requires 'a few tweaks' and what requires a complete overhaul. This would require more than 'a few tweaks'. Again, you're trying to reinvent the wheel. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the current system, it plays very well. I think the popularity of ME2 is a testament to that. Besides, this is pointless, considering BioWare has already stated that global cooldowns are coming back and theres a 99% chance that don't change the system at all, other than some minor tweaks to powers, etc. 

I may not be game designer but I'm pretty sure I know difference between tweaks and overhaul.

And like I said, there is wrong with this system.
But I won't mind if they keep it. It is good.


But I'm suggesting this since I believe this would make it even better they current one and it doesn't change any core mechanics.

If Bioware see's this and at least consider this to test it out, I'll be grateful.
If they don't, no biggy. I won't be sad or angry.
If they do test it out and it doesn't work? OK, I was wrong then.


I mean, that's the point of this forum. So that developers can listen their fans.
It depends on them if this and any other suggestion worth's their time, money and resources or not.

[Aradace]

Actually, I "kinda" like the global cooldowns in ME2. But at the same time, I wish it were more like ME1 in that respect. Because as much as you'd like to think otherwise, individual cooldowns making the game "easier" is solely an opinion and not a fact. Just like my opinion is that I liked the ME1 cooldowns better than ME2 but still enjoy them both based on their own merits.

As someone else already said, your proposed system would essentially give Soldiers one cooldown while it gave other classes multiple cooldowns which would throw the balance waaaaaaaaay off. Essentially, there are only two options that BW can explore here and both they've already done. Individual and Global cooldowns. If they went back to individual cooldowns for ME3, that'd be great and I wouldnt mind it. But if they stay with global, I'll be fine with it too. Both have their merits and flaws honestly.

[goofyomnivore]

As for the topic;

Group cooldowns would break the balance of this current system, and it would need more than "tweaks" to fix. If BioWare wants to take thing such as "grenade and ammo powers" off the global cooldown that would be fine, but group cooldowns wouldn't work without a redesign.

I think  "main powers" "secondary powers" and "utility powers", would be a better system than "group" it benefits every class in a similar way, instead of punishing/pigeonholing pure clases. Although it would still be broken overpowered.
main=class, secondary=basic, utlity=ammo powers, and in need of a redesign in combat.

Modifié par strive, 24 juin 2011 - 03:30 .

[CroGamer002]

Look, I took ME2 system and done Group Cooldown and it needs just few tweaks for it, not overhaul.


I don't know how will ME3 work.
I can't know until more info is out.

And with ME2 Global Cooldown in ME3, I really don't see it work as properly as it did in ME2.
They'll change some stuff in ME3 from ME2.


I believe this is better solution for both game and lore.

[CajNatalie]

Trollin'.

Won't even open a link to a source when given and then say was directed nowhere.
I looked at the link. It went somewhere relevant.

Trollin' hard.

[P3G4SU5]

Captain Crash wrote...

With the adept you combo powers quite frequently and global cooldowns would really hinder their performance as others have mentioned.

I think classes need to be looked at individually in some regards as others have suggested. What works for the Adept doesnt so much for other classes

^This. Why not just replace adepts' powers with a stick and point them in the direction of enemies. This is essentially how much your proposed changes would handicap the adept class, which one could argue is already one of the less powerful classes.

I'd rather see biotics cause increased damage/have a slight reduction in their cooldown/cause damage to health through shields and armor, but have the amount of health damage dealt reduced depending on the remaining strength of an enemy's kinetic barriers/armor.

Modifié par P3G4SU5, 24 juin 2011 - 11:31 .

[lazuli]

I'm curious to see how grenades will work with the global cooldown. In ME2, grenades were skills and therefore they were tied to the global cooldown. In ME3, it looks like grenades are still skills, but they don't seem to be bound by the global cooldown.

[goofyomnivore]

I think they will just function like weapons now, they're "customizable" through the ability tree to the specific character, and like heavy weapon ammo replenished through "Power Cells".

Basically ME1's grenades, but not "press to detonate" (would be cool if infiltrator/engineer got that), but customizable through skill points rather than "mods".

Modifié par strive, 24 juin 2011 - 11:56 .

[P3G4SU5]

lazuli wrote...

I'm curious to see how grenades will work with the global cooldown. In ME2, grenades were skills and therefore they were tied to the global cooldown. In ME3, it looks like grenades are still skills, but they don't seem to be bound by the global cooldown.

I'm not sure grenades still do function like powers, at least not from what we same in the E3 gameplay. There was a part where I saw a player throw 2 grenades in rapid succession (about a second apart) so unless grenades have an extremely fast cooldown, it seems more likely that they've returned to the inventory grenade count system of ME.

This is good IMO because they look quite powerful. Having a limited reserve balances this nicely as well as making you think carefully where you use them, not to mention grenades as a power makes little sense.

Modifié par P3G4SU5, 25 juin 2011 - 06:12 .

[Sladarius]

As an adept the most efficient way to kill In mass effect 2 was Warp + shooting. As an Adept that is not fun. its a horrible way to play. Mass effect 1 had it right, if you want to make it harder, then reduce the biotics base health and make him have a reliance on barrier. Global cooldowns are ridiculous. I haven't played the other classes, perhaps they work well with the global cooldown, but As a biotic, they just ruin the gameplay. In the first game I could run through enemies without too much of a break in combat, as long as I was fast and alert and did my rotation of cooldowns right. If you werent alert and careful and ready to act you got nailed, you were squishy.

All mass effect 2 was, was warp, shoot, duck, shoot, warp, duck shoot, singularity, warp, duck, shoot, rinse repeat. The fact shields prevented mass effect attacks from doing anything rendered any other attack combo useless. I think I only ever needed to use push or lift on husks.