106 réponses à ce sujet

[olymind1]

hwf wrote...


What I meant to imply with Cerberus working to stop Shepard from brokering peace or alliances between two alien races is that the Illusive Man doesn't want a united galaxy after the dust settles.
See it as Divide and Conquer. And for once Cerberus has a golden opportunity in making this happen.
An overpowering outside force, not politically tied to Earth at all, is tearing everyone up - if you could exploit this to your advantage Humanity'll be significantly more powerful afterwards.

You should see this stance of Cerberus in the same light as Shepard making the call to not have the Arcturus fleet save the Destiny Ascension. Just pretend you didn't hear the pleads for help.
Throw the most powerful species in front of the bus. Or, as Chief Williams put it - "sic your dog on it and run".

@hwf: exactly, i agree

when we chose to:
-let the council die, and humans take over
-kill the rachni queen
-destroy the geth heretics
-destroy the genophage cure
-present the evidece to the quarians at Tali's trial
-reconnect David with the machine to controll the geth

are in a certain sense all to:
-destabilize them
-reduce the their strength and/or inteligence
-keeping them from overpopulate, or repopulate
-simply controll them

witch are all to give us (to humans) power over alien races. so in a way renegade Shepards are very Cerberus to the core, w/ or w/o realizing it, not just did the job done with any means neccessary.


@anyone
though i don't know what's up with Cerberus and the Reapers, but i find hard to belive that TIM is so naive (after saw what Saren and Ben become) to join / made a pact / deal etc with the Reapers. Well, we all know well what happens to those who "alliance" themselves with the Reapers... (certain extinction, mindless slaves or tools) In the Reapers "eyes" we are nothing more than "food", an accident, a genetic mutation, tools to be used. every cycle they erase successfully all civilization and (most of the) evidence of them for several million years... Like they are letting the us to exist further... right...

i like that theory better where TIM wants to stop us from uniting the galaxy's aliens'.
also IMO the "TIM is indoctrinated" theory is far better than "he willingly joins the Reapers" theory. but i'd like to see he is NOT.

[Lumikki]

olymind1 wrote...

i like that theory better where TIM wants to stop us from uniting the galaxy's aliens'.

I agree this would be TIM, but there is one problem with it.
What TIM would wants to happen and what will happen is different.

Meaning if Galaxy is not united agaist reapers as what Shepard will try to do in ME3, then there is high probability that all DIE, including TIM by reapers attacks. So, while TIM would want that we aren't united, it's the ONLY way we can survive, including TIM him self. So, stoping us before we unite and stop reapers doesn't make sense. Because why to do something what kills you self too.

Example more intelligent version would be let Shepard unite races and fight agaist reapers and then look how many did survive from WAR. Basicly wait untill dust settles, because in that fight most will die anyway. Even Shepard can't just kill reapers without any massive casualties in all races.

If TIM how ever kills Shepard, then it's very likely that reaperes will WIN the war and no-one is left to be alive. So, how is TIM gonna stay alive agaist reapers after the war? Does reapers just ignore TIM and his group, I don't think so. So, only way this would make any sense is that TIM has weapon what kills reapers 100% guarantee.

Smart move would be just look and wait to see how Shepard does in this war and how close it comes Shepard to win or lose. Because that is the weakest point for everyone, united galaxy and reapers. Point been don't go middle of batteling forced when you try to survive, stay out of it.

How ever, that is not what TIM does, why? Why kill Shepard, what's the benefit for TIM? That is what doesn't make any sense. Mostly because killing Shepard doesn't seem to have any benefit for TIM, before reapers are killed. After that, the situation is totally different.

Point been killing Shepard before reaper war is less benefit, than killing who's left alive from war after the war. Because before war TIM would needs the "force" to kill reapers, what may not be so easy, while after TIM only needs forced to kill leftovers.

Modifié par Lumikki, 26 juin 2011 - 03:44 .

[olymind1]

Lumikki wrote...

olymind1 wrote...

i like that theory better where TIM wants to stop us from uniting the galaxy's aliens'.

I agree this would be TIM, but there is one problem with it.
What TIM would wants to happen and what will happen is different.

Meaning if Galaxy is not united agaist reapers as what Shepard will try to do in ME3, then there is high probability that all DIE, including TIM by reapers attacks. So, while TIM would want that we aren't united, it's the ONLY way we can survive, including TIM him self. So, stoping us before we unite and stop reapers doesn't make sense. Because why to do something what kills you self too.

Example more intelligent version would be let Shepard unite races and fight agaist reapers and then look how many did survive from WAR. Basicly wait untill dust settles, because in that fight most will die anyway. Even Shepard can't just kill reapers without any massive casualties in all races.

If TIM how ever kills Shepard, then it's very likely that reaperes will WIN the war and no-one is left to be alive. So, how is TIM gonna stay alive agaist reapers after the war? Does reapers just ignore TIM and his group, I don't think so. So, only way this would make any sense is that TIM has weapon what kills reapers 100% guarantee.

Smart move would be just look and wait to see how Shepard does in this war and how close it comes Shepard to win or lose. Because that is the weakest point for everyone, united galaxy and reapers. Point been don't go middle of batteling forced when you try to survive, stay out of it.

How ever, that is not what TIM does, why? Why kill Shepard, what's the benefit for TIM? That is what doesn't make any sense. Mostly because killing Shepard doesn't seem to have any benefit for TIM, before reapers are killed. After that, the situation is totally different.

Point been killing Shepard before reaper war is less benefit, than killing who's left alive from war after the war. Because before war TIM would needs the "force" to kill reapers, what may not be so easy, while after TIM only needs forced to kill leftovers.

i understand, but if he has some kind of plan witch is based on that the aliens must be sperated then theory is correct, but the fact remains: this is only a theory, and sadly with it, all is pure speculation.

but i'd like to see if we keep the collector base or we destroy it, depending on the outcome TIM's motive would change and not only in the surface even if he is still against us.

[Lumikki]

olymind1 wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

 *snip*

i understand, but if he has some kind of plan witch is based on that the aliens must be sperated then theory is correct, but the fact remains: this is only a theory, and sadly with it, all is pure speculation.

Yeah, but my speculation was based what is the smart move, that's not what happens in ME3, so..

So, as conclusion. (Based what TIM and Shepard does in ME3)

TIM has to have weapon what kills reapers 100% guarantee or way to get one. Other ways TIM's actions doesn't make any sense at all. Because you don't kill your enemy's enemy, unless you can also kill your enemy. This also means TIM doesn't try to stop reapers, because TIM wants everyone else in galaxy to die and Shepard is the obstacle what needs to be removed to this happen. Then after Reapers has killed other races, TIM kills reapers and guarantee TIM's people the dominate of galaxy. So, hole story is basicly Shepards trying to unite galaxy, while TIM trying to stop Shepards and in end Shepards kills TIM and take or create the 100% guarantee weapon and kills the reapers.

Does this make sense?

but i'd like to see if we keep the collector base or we destroy it, depending on the outcome TIM's motive would change and not only in the surface even if he is still against us.

Bioware doesn't make dual stories, just linear ones what may have different start and end, but main story is allways one linear.

Modifié par Lumikki, 26 juin 2011 - 05:30 .

[olymind1]

Lumikki wrote...

Does this make sense?

i think it does.

Lumikki wrote...

Bioware doesn't
make dual stories, just linear ones what may have different start and
end, but main story is allways one linear.

i know that, but based on the major choices from 1-2 presumably will have different outcomes (plus the choices you make) in ME3, could influence TIM in a way, even if he is against us. so that would be fixed: he is against us, so no different story telling required, but based on the collector base choice he would be after us for different reason(s).

[Burdokva]

Personally, while there are some nice options presented here in the thread (and Cerberus seeing the Reapers as the final stage of human evolution as a plausible, even if very far fetched), I think it's more-or-less "we need a villain" with a human face. Because the Mass Effect series generally presents the concept of diversity is nice, people of different races can work together etc. they've decided to make the enemy a human one so as to be more familiar and personal to the player (yes, it doesn't make much sense if you think about it, but it's one of those nonsensical popular modern concepts).

What I'm hoping for is that Cerberus split up and there's on-going in-fighting. So some Cerberus groups will actually help you along the way (esp. if you worked with them voluntarily in ME2) and not the lame excuse that suddenly everyone besides Jacob and Miranda turned EEEEEVIIIIIIILLLL...

[Repearized Miranda]

Burdokva wrote...

Personally, while there are some nice options presented here in the thread (and Cerberus seeing the Reapers as the final stage of human evolution as a plausible, even if very far fetched), I think it's more-or-less "we need a villain" with a human face. Because the Mass Effect series generally presents the concept of diversity is nice, people of different races can work together etc. they've decided to make the enemy a human one so as to be more familiar and personal to the player (yes, it doesn't make much sense if you think about it, but it's one of those nonsensical popular modern concepts).

What I'm hoping for is that Cerberus split up and there's on-going in-fighting. So some Cerberus groups will actually help you along the way (esp. if you worked with them voluntarily in ME2) and not the lame excuse that suddenly everyone besides Jacob and Miranda turned EEEEEVIIIIIIILLLL...

It seems like it may be going in that direction though. Here's why:

It'll be as if you (Shepard) are still working with them - those they have always been villians (that includes Miranda, Jacob despite befriending you). They've been seen as the "human threat" since ME1 *though unseen then) and still are given how the VSs practically "disowned" you (screw the apologies). Again, I wouldn't mind picking up some more Cerberus squaddies, but the disdain will undoubtedly grow/ (They were pissed because I made two friends. Imagine if I was part of a Cerberian army)

However, I wouldn't exactly call Cerberus my friends nor have I; consequently in terms of threat, they are the lesser of two evils and if they have my back while simultaeously attack that and my front ... I don't have any objection to that as I can easily tell those that do to buzz off!