161 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Rawke wrote...
QFT. I'm so glad I don't speak with an accent. You're lucky if you find someone who can actually pronounce "th" in Germany. Or ask someone to say "Massachusetts." Tongue-twister for many Germans. Sometimes it's hard to believe English and German are closely related.

Drat that vowel shift.  And the Normans.

At Forvo.com, you can hear people pronouncing words in various accents, or add your own if your dialect is missing, and rate other people's prononciations as an accuracy check.  It's a useful tool because it's generally native speakers pronouncing their own way.

[Rawke]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

Garbage Master wrote...

Rawke wrote...
Sometimes it's hard to believe English and German are closely related.

Sometimes it's hard to believe Pashto and Persian are closely related.

Actually English and German's simliarities suprise me sometimes. There are more than with French and English I feel, which also suprises due to the Frankish occupation in 1066. French of course has it's influences. The evolution of modern languages is a fascinating thing. Unfortunately I have no real talent for learning them, despite my clumsy attempts.

English and German (as well as Dutch) are as closely related as two independent languages can be, yet very few words have been actually borrowed from German (maybe because our words are way too long; "touch screen" for example would translate to "Berührungsbildschirm" - which sounds stupid even if you are German). Spanish and French have spawned many English words you wouldn't recognise as "foreign". Some have even more exotic origins (like shampoo, which doesn't necessarily sound English, but would you be able to guess that it's actually Hindi?). I have a theory. Instead of combining words to create a new sense or to describe new things (as it often is/was the case in German), the English just assimilate foreign words.

Drat that vowel shift.  And the Normans.

Also, Shakespeare and his colleagues had the annoying habit of inventing words when they ran out of synonyms.

Modifié par Rawke, 24 juin 2011 - 04:26 .

[AllThatJazz]

@Rawke - that's very interesting stuff, thanks

[Rawke]

AllThatJazz wrote...

@Rawke - that's very interesting stuff, thanks

Glad someone's actually interested. I wrote a (very small) dissertation on the role of the English language today for school. I focused on historical reasons for its spread and significance, but you still have to know about its origins. Henry B. Piper (who is an American SciFi author I never even heard of before) said: "English is the result of Norman men-at-arms attempting to pick up Saxon barmaids and is no more legitimate than any of the other results". Dunno about his writing, but he speaks the truth. I can also highly recommend any of Bill Bryson's books. I used "Mother Tongue" for my research, it's very nice to read.

[RAF1940]

Slidell505 wrote...

So, Woo sings. Interesting.

lol

[AllThatJazz]

Rawke wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...

@Rawke - that's very interesting stuff, thanks

Glad someone's actually interested. I wrote a (very small) dissertation on the role of the English language today for school. I focused on historical reasons for its spread and significance, but you still have to know about its origins. Henry B. Piper (who is an American SciFi author I never even heard of before) said: "English is the result of Norman men-at-arms attempting to pick up Saxon barmaids and is no more legitimate than any of the other results". Dunno about his writing, but he speaks the truth. I can also highly recommend any of Bill Bryson's books. I used "Mother Tongue" for my research, it's very nice to read.

Hm, haven't read that one, but I did enjoy 'Notes from a Small Island'.  Heh, I like that quote. The origins of modern languages are quite ignoble, aren't they? 

[Fiery Phoenix]

Stanley Woo wrote...

(...)

Here's actress Amy Walker demonstrating various accents.

This is completely impressive.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

@Rawke. You're right as I'm right. Both examples are almost similar.

[Godak]

I find that I sound like people from San Francisco.

...Which is really weird, as I have never lived in California (let alone San Fran), and both of my parents were born in the North East (Mass and Jersey). I'm from AZ. Go figure.

[catabuca]

i love hearing all sorts of different accents. i hope we don't continue to homogonise, at least not in my lifetime. i love the variety.

my accent is a typical nottingham/derby midlander english accent, btw.

(and no, there is no such thing as a british accent. you either have an english, welsh, scottish or northern irish accent, and then regional variations within those.)

[Addai]

NICKjnp wrote...

Yeah...even California has an accent. Most people assume it is what is on TV/Film but that is actually a specific accent you find in Hollywood.

There is definitely a California accent.  It's kind of funny to hear people talk in the same accent as a Valley Girl- people you wouldn't expect, that is.  Like my MIL. 

[Siansonea]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I have found that American accents are becoming more homogeneous, probably as a result of television. I'm from Texas, but you would never know it to hear me talk. No one here in Colorado can tell I'm a native Texan unless I "put on" a Texas accent. I put on all sorts of other accents too, like the Midwestern "Fargo" accent, California Valley Girl, Deep South, and New York accents. Accents are fun!

Hmm another reason its becoming homogeneous as you say is as the Schools try and beat the accents out of the kids, plus regional dialects. Well least here they do. I used to be repreminded all the time for using the dialect I grew up around and used. And at first they attempted to drown out my accent by making fun of me or by use of public speaking. Funny enough that last bit backfired on them, as I knew how to carry my tone and thus was a very engaging speaker.
 
From spending time with various people and what not, more so my wife, I can actully hide or drown out my accent. But I do have one, Its kinda like Andy Griffin, just more Southern Gentelman too it. Whats hillarious is when I use it around people not from my region they love it. Here though people laugh at it. I can do some other Accents, very damn good Russian one, I actully fooled a Russian once with it, mainly other foreign ones though. But very few US accents. And when I was in pratice speaking German and Japanese, I could speak them with something of a native dialect, or so I've been told...but thats fallen so far out of use I remember so little of it. I can make the proper sounds and such for Mandrin and Cantonese but short of basic prhases and what my wife tries to teach me I don't really "know it". But I love accents, they tell you where a person is from, even Canadians differ. Meet someone from Quebec, Vancouver, and Albert, rarely will they sound the same. And by telling where a person is from or currently lives and a bit of geographic knowladge you can know a great deal about that person and what to expect to an extent culturally. People around here never understood my facination with such things, more so that I botherd befriending the exchange students.

You can learn a wealth of information if your not worried to ask, and listen. Funny enough I prefer solitude...or maybe its just the locals that make me that way.

It's funny, my ear for accents also made me able to pick up pronunciation of Spanish (Mexican dialect) and French when I studied those languages. I took Spanish in middle school and high school, and I studied French at Alliance Française here in Denver as an adult. I would LOVE to go back to Alliance Française and continue my studies, I was doing really well. If my teacher hadn't left, and if I hadn't gotten stuck with a very poor teacher, I probably would have completed the entire curriculum. But my pronunciation has always surpassed my grasp of a language, so when I was in France and spoke French, people assumed I was much more fluent than I actually was. Then I'd have to ask them to repeat everything slowly. Maybe they just thought I was simple. 

[lobi]

Accents are accents, though I am more prepared to judge the heck out of someone with an American accent as opposed to say Swedish, or Russian, or Chinese, or Afrikann, the rest of the world actually. Except the British, those Sons of.........

[Rawke]

Garbage Master wrote...

@Rawke. You're right as I'm right. Both examples are almost similar.

Can't judge. Unfortunately, I speak neither of those languages.  Which is sad, I 'd like to learn a language you don't hear that often. Here in Germany you learn English, then Latin, French and/or Spanish (there are exceptions of course, depends on what kind of school you go to). The only language I speak fluently besides my mother tongue is English. I never really liked Spanish (maybe because I HATED Latin), so I'd like to learn something else. Russian could be fun, but I've been told it's extremely difficult to learn. Or some language from the Middle East. Ah, so many choices and so little lifetime to learn...

[darth_lopez]

Rawke wrote...



I actually wrote a dissertation about that. And I doubt it'll stay as it is. English has always been a language that borrows from other languages. Not necessarily from related Germanic languages (how many words do you know that have a German or Dutch origin?). There are words you'd think are English but in fact are borrowed or derived from a totally foreign language.

There are several thousand words with out a germanic/dutch(i thought dutch was part of the germanic family?) origin, and most people i doubt would recognize the relation between hound-hund book-buch and the horde of other immensely similar words that  could easily be from other germanic languages. However considering English is a Germanic language i doubt you could say it adopted most of it's vocabulary from other german languages (like my examples have probably always been in the language since the change from proto-germanic though pronounced differently before the Great Vowel Shift) It's just evolved since proto-germanic in a much different way than the other major germanic languages. Most of our words for science and medicine are greek and latin. I'm not even sure where to begin on actual adopted words there are alot. To a native speaker most of our Foreign adopted words do actually stand out.

by chance are you linguist(Sprachewissenshaftler)? i'm starting down that road at the moment myself.

Modifié par darth_lopez, 24 juin 2011 - 07:46 .

[Stanley Woo]

Celrath wrote...
What about the Hyundai accent

You are so fired.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Rawke wrote...

Garbage Master wrote...

@Rawke. You're right as I'm right. Both examples are almost similar.

Can't judge. Unfortunately, I speak neither of those languages.  Which is sad, I 'd like to learn a language you don't hear that often. Here in Germany you learn English, then Latin, French and/or Spanish (there are exceptions of course, depends on what kind of school you go to). The only language I speak fluently besides my mother tongue is English. I never really liked Spanish (maybe because I HATED Latin), so I'd like to learn something else. Russian could be fun, but I've been told it's extremely difficult to learn. Or some language from the Middle East. Ah, so many choices and so little lifetime to learn...

As someone with Persian language as his primary language, I can't understand a sentence in Pashto! at least I understand Kurdish a little. All three of them are from Iranian languages division, but the difference between them is like Danish, English and German.
And for a example of weirdness I can tell the difference between Italian and French. The first is Ok but The second one is almost like a hell compared to mother Latin language! pronouncing 'r' in french like 'ch' in machen (in German) is one of them.

[Verly]

I'm from southern ohio. Ohio is pretty split in two when it comes to accents. my voice has more of a west Virginia sound to it, but not really really thick. Just a slight drawl when I say curtain words.

I know it's a kids party a the library, but in this youtube vid if you can make out the accents it would give you a pretty good idea of what mine sounds like

[Addai]

Rawke wrote...
Russian could be fun, but I've been told it's extremely difficult to learn. Or some language from the Middle East. Ah, so many choices and so little lifetime to learn...

I found Russian difficult because of the grammar.  You'd get a paragraph or two explaining a grammatical rule, but pages and pages of exceptions.

Honestly I think English is a very difficult language to learn, mostly because our spelling is not even close to phonetic.  I feel for all the non-native speakers who have to cope for job or academic reasons. 

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Is there any dialect in USA? I mean saying a line with few different words in each, said by the people of certain state. like using an old and extinct word which is being used in few places and can't be understood by majority?
I hope you understand what I've written!

Modifié par Garbage Master, 24 juin 2011 - 09:00 .

[AllThatJazz]

Addai67 wrote...

Rawke wrote...
Russian could be fun, but I've been told it's extremely difficult to learn. Or some language from the Middle East. Ah, so many choices and so little lifetime to learn...

I found Russian difficult because of the grammar.  You'd get a paragraph or two explaining a grammatical rule, but pages and pages of exceptions.

Honestly I think English is a very difficult language to learn, mostly because our spelling is not even close to phonetic.  I feel for all the non-native speakers who have to cope for job or academic reasons. 

Indeed. Bough, cough, rough, dough - none with the same pronunciation! I'd hate to have to learn English as a second or third language, and I have complete and utter respect for those who manage it   

[mousestalker]

Garbage Master wrote...

Is there any dialect in USA? I mean saying a line with few different words in each, said by the people of certain state. like using an old and extinct word which is being used in few places and can't be understood by majority?
I hope you understand what I've written!

Yes. If I thicken my accent, I can pretty much guarantee I will not be understood by the majority of English speakers. There are well documented instances of regional word choices as well (pop/soda/coke/dope).

[Addai]

Garbage Master wrote...

Is there any dialect in USA? I mean saying a line with few different words in each, said by the people of certain state. like using an old and extinct word which is being used in few places and can't be understood by majority?
I hope you understand what I've written!

There are regional differences, but these are usually subtle because of our history as a relatively young, immigrant nation.  I notice a slight difference between California, where I live now, and my home region on the East Coast.  Southern states have a pretty noticeable accent.

For the linguists among us, is it true that the southern US accents are closer to British?  It doesn't sound that way to me at all, but I've heard that somewhere.