376 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

laecraft wrote...

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

Nah... In ME1, Admiral Kohoku says "They've gone completely rogue, Shepard!"

You know, that "they've gone rogue" excuse is really getting old. TIM overused it, and I can imagine he learned from the Alliance to explain everything on it. Now the Alliance claims Cerberus has gone rogue...but even after playing through those Cerberus-related missions in ME1 I cannot tell whether or not Cerberus was still a branch of the Alliance when they murdered the squad on Akuze.

I can easily picture Admiral Hackett standing up at the trial, pointing at Shepard, and saying, "He didn't blow up the system on Alliance orders. All I asked of him was to save my old friend from the Batarian prison. Shepard's gone completely rogue!"

I think they've retconned Cerberus' Alliance origin as there's no indicator it was EVER part of it in ME2. The ME2 codex entry and Evolution comic make it seem like it was just something TIM conjured up by himself in his spare time.

[The Unfallen]

IamSithari wrote...

Damn it would somebody respond to my comments.

ya me 2

[lovgreno]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

Skorpion_hrv wrote...

Cerberus all the way. I am amazed at how many people don't get it. You are either the predator or the prey. There can never be peace, there is always conflict, even if there is no immediate war. You fight for your kind or we all lose!

Secondly, I hate when writers present me with the obvious ''bad'' and ''good'' guys. I think that everyone can agree that Cerberus is the ''bad guy'' here and that their methods are evil. They sure are, but we being able to spot it so easily proves it to be a childish simplification in favor of a widespread delusion that doing ''good'', being nice, helping others will necessarily yield good results (for us, of course). Therefore, I support Cerberus because I don't support that kind of storytelling.

Lastly, ''Peace through Power.''

 You are either the Predator or the Prey? Lovely stuff, never mind all the social evolution and cultural advancement that has happened. Instead of seeing the other ME races as peoples capable of that same social co-operation (and in many instances.. willing), lets just launch ourselves into uninstigated conflict

Winners have many allies, are big, rarely needs to resort to political violence and needs few secrets. Examples in ME: The council. They are as selfish as everyone else but they are at least sucessfull about it.

Losers are small, isolated and their incompetence forces them to use the usualy failtastic methods of terrorism, secrets and assasinations. Examples in ME: Failberus. Their operations usualy ends in self defeats, even more enemies and even less allies.

Since the Alliance managed to create and lose controll of Cerberus they are more in the loser cathegory than in the winner one.

Yes you are often either the predator or the prey and the galaxy is often a dog eat dog world but Failberus has put themselves in the prey cathegory by their own means. So what is it they lack? Cooperation, not confrontation, is what realy gets you power. Cooperation is obviously something that doesn't work for Cerberus, not against outsider (everyones enemy) and not inside the organisation (everyone going "rogue" and ignoring orders).

[thesnake777]

Personally ill work with every group to beat the reapers ...but....
in the 4th quarter I would back a cerberus power play
Cerberus for the win...

[xentar]

I don't support politicians or militaries.

[sevach]

thesnake777 wrote...

Personally ill work with every group to beat the reapers ...but....
in the 4th quarter I would back a cerberus power play
Cerberus for the win...

Smart move, i like it!!!

I won't let fear (of the Bioware paragonist writers) compromise who i am!!!

Cerberus FTW

True renegade

Modifié par sevach, 03 juillet 2011 - 06:14 .

[VegasVance]

sevach wrote...

thesnake777 wrote...

Personally ill work with every group to beat the reapers ...but....
in the 4th quarter I would back a cerberus power play
Cerberus for the win...

Smart move, i like it!!!

True renegade

In overtime, I'd force the council, cerberus, and alliance to exterminate the last reapers via sacking 3/4 of their armies.  Truest renegade 
                              
         :devil:           :devil:
     :devil::devil::devil:
 :devil::devil::devil::devil:
    :devil::devil::devil:
           :devil::devil:
                     :devil:
                       

[Sheppard-Commander]

I usually play renegade, so Cerberus actually made for a good fit...I liked the pushing-the-envelope style and willingness to cross over the line when necessary. I'm pretty disappointed that the organization has gone from being at the forefront of combating the Reaper invasion to being mindless slaves.

[Seboist]

laecraft wrote...

Seboist wrote...

I think they've retconned Cerberus' Alliance origin as there's no indicator it was EVER part of it in ME2. The ME2 codex entry and Evolution comic make it seem like it was just something TIM conjured up by himself in his spare time.

That's exactly my feeling. Something doesn't add up. Based purely on ME2 and the books, Cerberus is TIM's inspired creation. He deserves a lot of respect for making something like that from scratch - unlike, for example, the Shadow Broker - the previous one...and the current one.

All those people who want to kill TIM and take over Cerberus...I constantly want to tell them, "make your own Cerberus!" Use your own dirt. Easy to steal, not so easy to create, especially create the inspiring idea.

Then I played ME1, and it left me very confused. Cerberus was a branch of Alliance? Gone rogue? And when? Why? How? That Akuze-related mission, we get to shoot stuff, but never get any explanation. Was Cerberus still working for the Alliance back then? When did they decide to separate? and why? Was it worth it? Did they get any results? No answers, and Hackett says, "hopefully it brings you some peace" - what peace! it brought me nothing but turmoil.

I'd rather pretend that that Alliance link in ME1 never happened. Mostly because of the unpleasant implications that Cerberus might still be working for the Alliance...has been working for the Alliance all along...I don't like this at all. It makes the Alliance look schizophrenic, and it makes literally everyone in the Alliance top command and in Cerberus into a complete liars, with Shepard led blindly in the dark.

No, no. These are two separate organizations. Always have been. Maybe it's a completely different branch, not related to "our" Cerberus. Just going to forget the ME1 matter.

It doesn't appear that Bioware ever really knew what to do with Cerberus and in particular TIM. There's some reference to a "General" at the end of the Rachni side-quest but nothing comes of it either in ME1 or 2. Then in the Ascension book TIM is some CEO for Cord-Hislop who operates out of their corporate headquarters' penthouse.......on Earth.

Apparently Cerberus and TIM function as "Plot Clay" that can be molded into whatever's convenient at the time.

Modifié par Seboist, 03 juillet 2011 - 08:55 .

[Arppis]

Alliance, because it's basicaly dedicated to protection of humanity, but they don't do it in expense of other species.

Cerberus just does it wrong. Full of backstabbers and sociopaths, seems to be funded by many private corporations, does crazy and horrible experiments THAT ALSO FAIL MOST OF THE TIME and they dislike aliens... I'm sure there is the "good" side of that group, but the bad's just outweight the good in my eyes. I get it that they do everything thinking of the "big picture", but it's just an excuse for crazy people to act crazy and claim they are doing it for "greater good"...

Council? Yeah, I get what they want to do. It's just too bad that they want to be a stick in the mud about everything. But I get it why they want to do that too, they want to be sure before they act...

[Drone223]

Alliance/Council, we are clearly told about the history of Cerberus my sheps knew about them since they started working for them and imo 99% of the time something bad happens in their projects

[Seboist]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Seboist wrote...

It doesn't appear that Bioware ever really knew what to do with Cerberus and in particular TIM. There's some reference to a "General" at the end of the Rachni side-quest but nothing comes of it either in ME1 or 2. Then in the Ascension book TIM is some CEO for Cord-Hislop who operates out of their corporate headquarters' penthouse.......on Earth.

Apparently Cerberus and TIM function as "Plot Clay" that can be molded into whatever's convenient at the time.

That's a good way of putting it.

Let us also not forget the decision whether or not to give the Cerberus data to the Shadow Broker had no consequence what-so-ever.

Yeah but thankfully my foolish decision to give the data to the SB in my first playthrough had no impact. In all subsequent playthroughs my Shep refused to do it with the in-game rationale of not wanting to give classified Alliance intel to an alien information hustler. :happy:

[Seboist]

laecraft wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Seboist wrote...

It doesn't appear that Bioware ever really knew what to do with Cerberus and in particular TIM. There's some reference to a "General" at the end of the Rachni side-quest but nothing comes of it either in ME1 or 2. Then in the Ascension book TIM is some CEO for Cord-Hislop who operates out of their corporate headquarters' penthouse.......on Earth.

Apparently Cerberus and TIM function as "Plot Clay" that can be molded into whatever's convenient at the time.

That's a good way of putting it.

Let us also not forget the decision whether or not to give the Cerberus data to the Shadow Broker had no consequence what-so-ever.

Yeah but thankfully my foolish decision to give the data to the SB in my first playthrough had no impact. In all subsequent playthroughs my Shep refused to do it with the in-game rationale of not wanting to give classified Alliance intel to an alien information hustler. :happy:

Maybe it will have consequences yet in ME3. I'm a hopeless optimist. It would make so much more sense to account for this than for Matriarch's Writings. Better than cameos of people I've met only briefly and can no longer remember their names. At least that Shadow Broker agent didn't give his name...but oddly enough, I can still remember the intonations of his voice. "Be reasonable, Commander. You owe them no loyalty."

I'm afraid not, there isn't any flag for it in the gibbed save editor.

[Kainovieno]

My Shepard is Alliance's girl. Having played ME1 and read the books I can't stand behind Cerberus' actions. I hated how Shepard was forced to co-operate with them.

[Vilma]

My Shepard has pretty much lost her faith on all institutions, but Alliance is needed for the humanity, and the Council is needed for the interstellar co-operation. Cerberus, regardless of intentions, conducts horrible human experiments without remorse and hates aliens. So, choosing the smaller evils.

[Skorpion_hrv]

lovgreno wrote...

TobyHasEyes wrote...

Skorpion_hrv wrote...

Cerberus all the way. I am amazed at how many people don't get it. You are either the predator or the prey. There can never be peace, there is always conflict, even if there is no immediate war. You fight for your kind or we all lose!

Secondly, I hate when writers present me with the obvious ''bad'' and ''good'' guys. I think that everyone can agree that Cerberus is the ''bad guy'' here and that their methods are evil. They sure are, but we being able to spot it so easily proves it to be a childish simplification in favor of a widespread delusion that doing ''good'', being nice, helping others will necessarily yield good results (for us, of course). Therefore, I support Cerberus because I don't support that kind of storytelling.

Lastly, ''Peace through Power.''

 You are either the Predator or the Prey? Lovely stuff, never mind all the social evolution and cultural advancement that has happened. Instead of seeing the other ME races as peoples capable of that same social co-operation (and in many instances.. willing), lets just launch ourselves into uninstigated conflict

Winners have many allies, are big, rarely needs to resort to political violence and needs few secrets. Examples in ME: The council. They are as selfish as everyone else but they are at least sucessfull about it.

Losers are small, isolated and their incompetence forces them to use the usualy failtastic methods of terrorism, secrets and assasinations. Examples in ME: Failberus. Their operations usualy ends in self defeats, even more enemies and even less allies.

Since the Alliance managed to create and lose controll of Cerberus they are more in the loser cathegory than in the winner one.

Yes you are often either the predator or the prey and the galaxy is often a dog eat dog world but Failberus has put themselves in the prey cathegory by their own means. So what is it they lack? Cooperation, not confrontation, is what realy gets you power. Cooperation is obviously something that doesn't work for Cerberus, not against outsider (everyones enemy) and not inside the organisation (everyone going "rogue" and ignoring orders).

How did the winners become winners? And who are these ''allies''? Someone always dominates in these co-operations and I would like that to be me

Also, Cerberuses operations always end in failure because Bioware wants them to, not because they would also fail in real life. But then again, ME is not real life so comparing them is probably pointless. Fighting for Cerberus is fighting against the mainstream and that's cool. Great game by the way, no matter how it ends.

[TobyHasEyes]

Fighting against the mainstream is cool? Depends on the cause.. when the cause is the domination of the majority of the galaxy, including the peaceful and diplomatic races, then it doesn't rate as cool to me

[Han Shot First]

xentar wrote...

I don't support politicians or militaries.

Looks like you don't support humanity escpaing extinction then either.

Galactic civilization doesn't survive without a means to defend itself. I.E, those militaries you aren't too fond of

There were a lot of anti-military types on Horizon as I recall. How'd that work out for them?

Modifié par Han Shot First, 03 juillet 2011 - 04:34 .

[Yanks27th]

First the council. The reapers take over first by eliminating the leaders, thus sending the galaxy into disaray and chaos. While losing the Aliance would be devistating, loosing the counicl, and thus likely the citadel, and thus likely the union that holds all the races together would mean that the Reapers had already won. If the Alliance fell apart, the Galaxy's chances would be dampered, but would still exist.
Cerberus isn't that important. They were critical in the accomplishment of a specific task, eliminating the collectors, but I don't think there really that important in the survival of the galaxy. With their shady record they would only stand in the way of diplomacy, and as someone who supports the good of the galaxy over the power and spread of the Human race, I don't think they have any purpose post-reapers. If somehow they must be sacrificed to save the galaxy, I would do so in a heartbeat

Modifié par Yanks27th, 03 juillet 2011 - 05:10 .

[xentar]

Han Shot First wrote...

xentar wrote...

I don't support politicians or militaries.

Looks like you don't support humanity escpaing extinction then either.

Galactic civilization doesn't survive without a means to defend itself. I.E, those militaries you aren't too fond of

There were a lot of anti-military types on Horizon as I recall. How'd that work out for them?

Then we should wait for a civilization to emerge that does. Who knows, maybe that's what reapers are waiting for as well.