376 réponses à ce sujet

[KotorEffect3]

Nyoka wrote...

I support the Council, but I would like it if it were formed by more than 3 people.

I am all for making major changes to council government post reaper war (and no I don't mean evil human galactic empire changes either),  I think some of the "lesser species" in citadel space has been screwed over by the council and they deserve to have more of a voice.

[George-Kinsill]

Kekkis wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

Kekkis wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

C9316 wrote...

 I guess I'm loyal to what the council stands for, galactic peace.

Awww... that's cute. No really, it's very sweet. Tragic though...

It´s so much better if you build your army to the point that you can ruin your economy, or go to war. So cute. Or WW2. But there is always civil war if you can´t find someone else to fight with.

actually, peace through superior firepower is the only kind of peace that lasts. or peace though mutual profit.

Actually fear of complete destruction of both sides is absolute peacemaker In every war starter had somekind of  realistic or unrealistic hope to win it.

Having read, studied, and majored the topic of arms races thoroughly, I can honestly say THEY DON'T PREVENT WARS, THEY CAUSE THEM!
Ever since great powers have started arms build ups in the 1500's. starting with the 30 Years war, there has been a great powers war (aka World war) every 50 years since then, with the exception luckily 50 years after WW2, as the UN was there to help reach consensus, and believe me, I HATE THE UN, but credit must be given where it is due. WW2 and prior, these wars were caused by arms races (like between Britain & Germany) and then triggered when a new un-recognized great power wanted to show the world t was a great power, or an older failing one (like Russia in the Crimean War) attempting to re-exert their power.
In the ME universe, the great powers wars are fortunately prevented by a body far more effective then the UN, the Council. Case and point, the Humans and Turians first contact war was single handidly stopped by tthe council, and galactic law and security negated the need of a ostly bankruting arms buid up, and an ugly war (and by the way, I HEAVILY DISLIKE THE COUNCIL!). For anyone who wants to read further on the topic of great powers wars and arms races should read the books, "War: The Lethal Custom" by Gwynne Dyer, and "The Military Revolution: Military innovation and the rise of the west 1500-1800" by Geoffrey Parker.

Modifié par George-Kinsill, 24 juin 2011 - 01:02 .

[Skirata129]

Spartanburger wrote...

But that doesn't really matter. What does matter is that nobody here seems to know how NOT to pyramid quote. Seriously, stop it. My mousewheel won't last long like this.

Honestly, I just wanted to see how big the pyramid would get. anyone else want to expand on it?

[tobynator89]

Saphra Deden wrote...

BlueDemonX wrote...

I´m all for progress, because stagnation is death, but there´s always a better way.

Those unwilling to hold back will inevitably triumph over those who are.

That holds true when the factions are totalitarian or feudal, where there is a constant powerstruggle. But NEVER in the history of man has two democracies gone to war with each other directly. Only war ever to feature two democracies declaring war against each other was england declaring war on finland for attacking the soviet union. And not a shot was ever fired.

[Skirata129]

tobynator89 wrote...

[That holds true when the factions are totalitarian or feudal, where there is a constant powerstruggle. But NEVER in the history of man has two democracies gone to war with each other directly. Only war ever to feature two democracies declaring war against each other was england declaring war on finland for attacking the soviet union. And not a shot was ever fired.

Pakistan and India.

edit: ninja'd
nice find.

Modifié par Skirata129, 24 juin 2011 - 01:12 .

[SandTrout]

Democracy as a wide-spread practice is also relatively new, when you're dealing with a historical scale of time. The first stable modern democracy was only formed in 1788 (I'm using the signing date of the US constitution), and it was an anomaly until the 1848 European revolutions, which frequently resulted in short-lived democracies. Stable democracies were few and far between until the most recent major shift in western culture in the wake of WW2.

[gunswordfist]

How can anyone support Cerebus or the Council? And don't say Miranda. She probably leaves Cerebus with you.

[KotorEffect3]

Saphra Deden wrote...

tobynator89 wrote...

That holds true when the factions are totalitarian or feudal, where there is a constant powerstruggle. But NEVER in the history of man has two democracies gone to war with each other directly.

That history is short. With the right incentive they'd go to war. We're also talking about different species in Mass Effect.

Humanity needs to be willing and able to stand alone if necessary.

Incidentally, democracies do go to war.

The reapers have been wiping out galactic civilization for who knows how many millions of years.  If one species is arrogant enough to think only they can defeat the reapers without working with the other species than they deserve to be wiped out.   Every species has something that they can bring to the table int the war against the reapers it would be dumb not to work with them because of some overzealous sense of human pride.

Modifié par KotorEffect3, 24 juin 2011 - 01:24 .

[Davie McG]

SandTrout wrote...

Democracy as a wide-spread practice is also relatively new, when you're dealing with a historical scale of time. The first stable modern democracy was only formed in 1788 (I'm using the signing date of the US constitution), and it was an anomaly until the 1848 European revolutions, which frequently resulted in short-lived democracies. Stable democracies were few and far between until the most recent major shift in western culture in the wake of WW2.

We (the uk) has had our parliament since 1707, and before then had seperate english and scottish parliaments before that. Dunno about the welsh though. Anyway point being the British Empire led the way for western democracy. Infact the United States democratic system was designed by a Scot who intended its use for Scotland because he anticipated its indepandance from the union (which didn't happen). 

Just thought I's say.

Edit : I should say based on rather than designed by a Scot because I can't really remember the specifics.

Modifié par Davie McG, 24 juin 2011 - 01:29 .

[mopotter]

My main Shepard is a Spectre first, but is supportive to the alliance and wouldn't trust cerberus as far as she could throw them. Tim is far too good at the "I didn't authorize it" idea. And the people who work for him all seem to agree that if they get results, he won't really care how they got them. It's an idea I disapprove of, so the majority of my Shepard feel the same.

I don't have any who are downright supporters of cerberus, but I do have some who support the Alliance and the Council in different degrees.

[SandTrout]

The reapers have been wiping out galactic civilization for who knows how many millions of years. If one species is arrogant enough to think only they can defeat the reapers without working with the other species than they deserve to be wiped out. Every species has something that they can bring to the table int the war against the reapers it would be dumb not to work with them because of some overzealous sense of human pride.

In that case, you are serving the interests of whoever it is you actually hope to preserve/protect by aligning with other species/political organizations.

Helping others in order to help yourself is not counter to looking out for your own well being.

[KotorEffect3]

Saphra Deden wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

The reapers have been wiping out galactic civilization for who knows how many millions of years.

Which is precisely why we can't afford to hold back.

It is precisely why we need backup and we aint going to get that backup if we don't work with the other races.  You don't just charge at the reapers with no plan.

[SandTrout]

We (the uk) has had our parliament since 1707, and before then had seperate english and scottish parliaments before that. Dunno about the welsh though. Anyway point being the British Empire led the way for western democracy. Infact the United States democratic system was designed by a Scot who intended its use for Scotland because he anticipated its indepandance from the union (which didn't happen).

Just thought I's say.

Edit : I should say based on rather than designed by a Scot because I can't really remember the specifics.

My mistake. You are correct, I had forgotten about that. It just slipped my mind.

Modern democracy is still a new thing, and was not wide-spread for a long time. Also, as Saphra pointed out, several democracies have gone to war with each other in any case.

[KotorEffect3]

SandTrout wrote...

The reapers have been wiping out galactic civilization for who knows how many millions of years. If one species is arrogant enough to think only they can defeat the reapers without working with the other species than they deserve to be wiped out. Every species has something that they can bring to the table int the war against the reapers it would be dumb not to work with them because of some overzealous sense of human pride.

In that case, you are serving the interests of whoever it is you actually hope to preserve/protect by aligning with other species/political organizations.

Helping others in order to help yourself is not counter to looking out for your own well being.

Never claimed otherwise.  I think the best thing for humanity is to work with the other races because as paragon Shepard puts it no matter how strong you are allies can make you stronger.  Beating back the reapers is going to take a galactic effort,  no individual species is going to beat them back by themselves.

Modifié par KotorEffect3, 24 juin 2011 - 01:40 .

[KotorEffect3]

Saphra Deden wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

It is precisely why we need backup and we aint going to get that backup if we don't work with the other races.

I have never once said we shouldn't accept alliances with the other races.

 

It is going to be harder to get those alliances if we've been pro human to the point of xenophobia.

[SandTrout]

Then we are in agreement.

[tobynator89]

Saphra Deden wrote...

tobynator89 wrote...

That holds true when the factions are totalitarian or feudal, where there is a constant powerstruggle. But NEVER in the history of man has two democracies gone to war with each other directly.

That history is short. With the right incentive they'd go to war. We're also talking about different species in Mass Effect.

Humanity needs to be willing and able to stand alone if necessary.

Incidentally, democracies do go to war.

Well If you'd actually read that list a bit more closely you'd find that they were either civil wars (which is what happens when a democracy fails) Or one of the sides were not close to what we today call a true democracy.

As for the india-pakistani wars specifically: 1st one was a civil war, 2nd and third was under military dictatorship and the fourth was a continuation of the two previous ones.

[Skirata129]

so now some wars and democracies "don't count". lol

also, T.I.M never struck me as xenophobic. just very, very ambitious.

*also, pakistan and India are still fighting over their border and Pakistan has had plenty of elections. the populace just seems to lke the guy they've got.

Modifié par Skirata129, 24 juin 2011 - 01:41 .

[Bluko]

I support the Alliance. I'll accept help wherever I can get it be it Council or Cerberus, but for me Alliance comes first.

Also as far I can tell the Alliance has always been on my side...

-Trained Shepard
-Helped me become a Spectre
-Gave me a warship
-GARDIAN Turrets save you on Horizon
-Anderson keeps the politicians at bay
-Hackett tips you off to prevent Reaper invasion

What I'd like to know is why people hate on the Alliance. You were dead. D-E-A-D. Dead people can't do anything except rot. What was the Alliance suppose to go to any length to retrieve Shepard's body?

Or maybe people feel it would have been better if the Alliance had started a war with the Terminus Systems? Yeah that's real helpful.

The Alliance has always supported Shepard and no matter what you say Shepard will always be an Alliance Marine. Cerberus tried to kill my Shepard in the past and only brought Shepard back to help themselves out in dealing with the Collectors. I saw working with them against the Reapers/Collectors as little more then a temporary truce. And the Council... well the Council is just inept no matter form it takes.