13 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave666]

I'll freely admit that this is a bit of a nit-pick.

One of the small things that I found odd about ME:2, was that Vangards and Adepts used a Biotic Barrier by default rather than actually using a Shield which would already be installed into every suit of armour that they might put on.

What I loved about ME:1 was that everyone used Shields and Tech users could boost the Shields directly, while Biotic users could use Biotics to create a Barrier as a boost or emergency backup in case of Shield faliure.  It just seems odd in ME:2. Which Biotic user in their right mind would forgo Shields in favour of having to permanently concentrate on keeping a Barrier up?  It seems to make much more sense to let a Shield unit do the work so that they can use all of that concentration on offensive abilities and controling the battlefield.

I can kinda see the argument for Jack to use a Barrier rather than a Shield, because of her background of having to rely on nothing but herself, but Jacob?  He's an ex Alliance soldier.  He'd be used to using Shields as a matter of course.  Even Miranda is supposedly very intelligent, yet we're meant to believe that she'd rather drain her mental resources than use a Shield?  Same for Samara.  She's what?  700 years old ish?  She would know better.

This to me seems a bit silly, especially for Shepard who is a Commander in the Military and Shields would be standard practice.

Maybe its just me, but I prefer a bit of realism within the game universe.

Thoughts?

[Praetor Knight]

I just realized, Jack is using a Barrier and does not need armor in ME2 to have that sort of protection.


Edit: Sorry I read half way through, when I had that eureka moment

I see now that you had that in your OP.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 23 juin 2011 - 11:59 .

[commandoclone87]

Actually, shields and barriers are essentially the same thing (repulsive mass effect fields). Lorewise, a biotic character enhances their armour's built in barriers with their own biotic abilities, thus reducing the effectiveness of tech attacks (and explains why their ME2 lists their shield as a barrier).

[nitrog100]

I never really understood why they wouldn't use shields like everybody else. The codex entry says that biotic amps automatically create barriers for the user now, but wouldn't that biotic energy be better used in combat? Why would you have something that siphons off your energy instead of using shields that only use energy from your armor?

[Dave666]

commandoclone87 wrote...

Actually, shields and barriers are essentially the same thing (repulsive mass effect fields). Lorewise, a biotic character enhances their armour's built in barriers with their own biotic abilities, thus reducing the effectiveness of tech attacks (and explains why their ME2 lists their shield as a barrier).

Kinetic Barriers ("Shields") (Taken from wiki, which is in turn taken from the in-game codex).

Kinetic barriers, commonly called shields, provide protection against most mass accelerator weapons. Whether on starships or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.

Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.
The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.

Barrier (Taken from wiki, which is in turn taken from the in-game codex).

Barrier is a biotic talent available to Adepts, Sentinels, the Asari Scientist, and the Krogan Battlemaster; Barrier is unlockable for Vanguards. Barrier surrounds the user with a high-gravity mass effect field essentially strengthening the player's shields for a certain period of time (or until the extra points are taken off by damage, whichever comes first). Barriers do not protect against physical damage like melee attacks, debris or environmental hazards.

In Mass Effect: Ascension, Hendel Mitra uses a Barrier to protect himself during an incident in the Jon Grissom Academy's cafeteria. The way Hendel uses Barrier is more akin to the in-game stationary geth barriers than in-game Barriers used by biotics.

You sure about that?  It seems to make more sense that they use Barriers in conjunction with Shields or that they use Biotic abilities on the Kinetic Barrier itself.  But if thats the case, why are Barriers weaker against bullets than Shields?

Either way though.  Why would a Biotic deliberately concentrate on creating a Barrier, rather than let a Shield take the strain and create a Barrier if they failed?

Modifié par Dave666, 24 juin 2011 - 12:40 .

[Raxxman]

nitrog100 wrote...

I never really understood why they wouldn't use shields like everybody else. The codex entry says that biotic amps automatically create barriers for the user now, but wouldn't that biotic energy be better used in combat? Why would you have something that siphons off your energy instead of using shields that only use energy from your armor?

Having a shield is a combat use.

Maybe it siphons off biotic energy that would otherwise be lost to the surrounding environment.

Personally I liked that Biotics had slightly different shields to tech users. But it's largely a flavour thing.

[CajNatalie]

When you try to make sense of anything to do with armor in Mass Effect 2... you should not expect success.

Mass Effect 2 is a massive failure with regards to armor. It's all about "aesthetics" first with functionality slapped on later, and sense completely ignored.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 24 juin 2011 - 01:55 .

[Admoniter]

It's a nitpick yes but it is one I share for most of the reasons listed above. Including strain on a biotic user when they already have something built into their suits that will do the same job.

[LPPrince]

It would've been cool if Adepts, Vanguards, and Sentinels could use barriers on top of their shields and armor, but alas, it wasn't so.

I guess because it'd be overpowered. Eh.

[commandoclone87]

Dave666 wrote...

commandoclone87 wrote...

Actually, shields and barriers are essentially the same thing (repulsive mass effect fields). Lorewise, a biotic character enhances their armour's built in barriers with their own biotic abilities, thus reducing the effectiveness of tech attacks (and explains why their ME2 lists their shield as a barrier).

Kinetic Barriers ("Shields") (Taken from wiki, which is in turn taken from the in-game codex).

Kinetic barriers, commonly called shields, provide protection against most mass accelerator weapons. Whether on starships or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.

Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.
The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.

Barrier (Taken from wiki, which is in turn taken from the in-game codex).

Barrier is a biotic talent available to Adepts, Sentinels, the Asari Scientist, and the Krogan Battlemaster; Barrier is unlockable for Vanguards. Barrier surrounds the user with a high-gravity mass effect field essentially strengthening the player's shields for a certain period of time (or until the extra points are taken off by damage, whichever comes first). Barriers do not protect against physical damage like melee attacks, debris or environmental hazards.

In Mass Effect: Ascension, Hendel Mitra uses a Barrier to protect himself during an incident in the Jon Grissom Academy's cafeteria. The way Hendel uses Barrier is more akin to the in-game stationary geth barriers than in-game Barriers used by biotics.

You sure about that?  It seems to make more sense that they use Barriers in conjunction with Shields or that they use Biotic abilities on the Kinetic Barrier itself.  But if thats the case, why are Barriers weaker against bullets than Shields?

Either way though.  Why would a Biotic deliberately concentrate on creating a Barrier, rather than let a Shield take the strain and create a Barrier if they failed?

As highlighted above, the Barrier ability, enhances or strengthen a user's existing shields. The reason that biotic enemies would have barrier listed for their defence rather than shields is to show players their weaknesses and to show that the character is using said ability.

But as with ME1, once the barrier is depleted by damage or time runs out, the user's normal suit shields should take over (accounting for damage taken while Barrier was up)

[Dave666]

commandoclone87 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

commandoclone87 wrote...

Actually, shields and barriers are essentially the same thing (repulsive mass effect fields). Lorewise, a biotic character enhances their armour's built in barriers with their own biotic abilities, thus reducing the effectiveness of tech attacks (and explains why their ME2 lists their shield as a barrier).

Kinetic Barriers ("Shields") (Taken from wiki, which is in turn taken from the in-game codex).

Kinetic barriers, commonly called shields, provide protection against most mass accelerator weapons. Whether on starships or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.

Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.
The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.

Barrier (Taken from wiki, which is in turn taken from the in-game codex).

Barrier is a biotic talent available to Adepts, Sentinels, the Asari Scientist, and the Krogan Battlemaster; Barrier is unlockable for Vanguards. Barrier surrounds the user with a high-gravity mass effect field essentially strengthening the player's shields for a certain period of time (or until the extra points are taken off by damage, whichever comes first). Barriers do not protect against physical damage like melee attacks, debris or environmental hazards.

In Mass Effect: Ascension, Hendel Mitra uses a Barrier to protect himself during an incident in the Jon Grissom Academy's cafeteria. The way Hendel uses Barrier is more akin to the in-game stationary geth barriers than in-game Barriers used by biotics.

You sure about that?  It seems to make more sense that they use Barriers in conjunction with Shields or that they use Biotic abilities on the Kinetic Barrier itself.  But if thats the case, why are Barriers weaker against bullets than Shields?

Either way though.  Why would a Biotic deliberately concentrate on creating a Barrier, rather than let a Shield take the strain and create a Barrier if they failed?

As highlighted above, the Barrier ability, enhances or strengthen a user's existing shields. The reason that biotic enemies would have barrier listed for their defence rather than shields is to show players their weaknesses and to show that the character is using said ability.

But as with ME1, once the barrier is depleted by damage or time runs out, the user's normal suit shields should take over (accounting for damage taken while Barrier was up)

Yeah, I was tired and worded that rather badly.

What I was trying to get at was that the way I look at Shields and Barriers that makes sense to me is to imagine the Shield itself (not the technology) as a field and a Tech user boosts Shields by increasing the eficiency of the Shields emitters, while the Biotic user skips the technology completely and manipulates the field itself.

The thing is though that with regards to the ability Barrier it makes sense.  Its a temporary boost that the Biotic uses for a brief period of time.  A Biotic could create a Barier from scratch, but its easier to manipulate a field thats already there.  

But imagine that you were Commander Shepard and you were born with Biotic Abilities.  You went to somewhere like BAaT (Biotic Aclimation and Training) where you were taught how to use these abilities that you were born with.  You then went on to join the Systems Alliance and recieved extensive training where Shields were standard practice.  Given how tiring using Biotics are (represented in-game by cooldows and by the codex as Biotics needing twice the calorie intake as normal soldiers) would you willingly waste energy (which is already heavilly taxed by using abilities) on keeping a permanent passive barrier when you could let a Shield do the work for you?

I know I wouldn't.  Nor could I imagine a professional soldier doing that either.  Its wasteful and could get you killed.  The energy wasted on that could have been used on another ability that might have saved your life.

[TexasToast712]

 Was the one thing I actually liked about ME1. My armor has built in shields. USE EM! Save my strength for other biotic uses.

[Dave666]

LPPrince wrote...

It would've been cool if Adepts, Vanguards, and Sentinels could use barriers on top of their shields and armor, but alas, it wasn't so.

I guess because it'd be overpowered. Eh.

I've always held the opinion that Barrier should have been a basic ability for an Adept.

The Adept and Engineer are lacking any sort of buff like ability.

Soldiers have Adrenaline Rush which gives increased damage output, decreased damage intake and time slow down, meaning that you take less damage because you can move faster and what shots do actually hit you do less damage (to Health, granted, but its still a buff).

Infiltrators have Cloak which completely negates damage.

Vangards have Charge which instantly recharges Barriers.

Sentinel has Tech Armour, need I say more?

Adept has....Nothing.

Engineer has...Nothing.

Raxxman wrote...

Having a shield is a combat use.

Maybe it siphons off biotic energy that would otherwise be lost to the surrounding environment.

Personally I liked that Biotics had slightly different shields to tech users. But it's largely a flavour thing.

Erm...There is no 'Biotic Energy' to lose.  Biotics are created by the user firing Neurons (electrical impulses in the brain) and directing them into Element Zero Nodules which have grown inside of them due to Element Zero exposure in the womb. To fire these Neurons in the patern needed they have to train what is called Memetic Memory.  In essence they train themselves to make a throwing gesture for example which fires off the correct neurons to create the Biotic effect Throw.

Modifié par Dave666, 24 juin 2011 - 05:35 .

[LPPrince]

Well, to be fair to everyone else, Adepts have a lot of CC abilities that can prevent attacks from happening and the Engineer has the Drone which can draw enemies away from them.

So for those two, there's roundabout ways to AVOID getting hit, but no protection if they ARE getting hit.