116 réponses à ce sujet

[sagevallant]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Then why do the Collectors use Dark Energy? Wouldn't that be against the Reapers plans?

Also, I'm not sure why you think they need an "ultimate motivation". We don't. Humans, I mean. We raise animals then slaughter them for food, furs, etc. This thread is like a chicken asking "what do you think is the human's ultimate motivation?" There is none, besides having something tasty to put in our curry.

The ultimate motivation for Humans is to continue existing. Preferably under improved conditions than we currently are existing under.

It's hard to write off a MACHINE behaving like a human, unless they need people for spare parts. Like in this TERRIBLE horror movie with Jamie Lee Curtis... Virus, I think it was called. Organic parts superior to machine parts? lol.

[McAwesum]

George-Kinsill wrote...

McAwesum wrote...

No offense, OP; but you need to re-read and revise your posts before you submit them. It was almost painful trying to read your post. Every other word you wrote was missing a letter, it was like a puzzle or something. Your topic was already complex enough; no need to try and encrypt it. Lol. Just pulling your leg. But seriously though: Sorry, not trying to be a dick or anything. Just pointing something out that caught my attention in a light-hearted manner.

Sorry about that. My good computer is being fixed, and currently I am working on a laptop with a keyboard that works horribly (some buttons just don't work, others must be pressed 1000 times).

Oh Ok, I getcha. It makes sense now. Lol. I was thinking: "Hm, he doesn't seem illiterate nor does it seem like English is not his first language. Everyone makes a typo every once in a while... but Jesus that's a lot of missed letters."

[shepskisaac]

Urhm survival?

[George-Kinsill]

kaiki01 wrote...

George-Kinsill wrote...

kaiki01 wrote...

My theory for the Reapers' "Ultimate Motivation" is survival. They need resources to keep functioning, so they allow biological races to evolve and create the infrastructure. The Reapers come back, create new Reapers to replace the ones that die and harvest the biological races to refuel. I don't think there is any deeper motivation then that.

If this were true though, the Reapers would be well within human comprehension, and should ave answered yes to when Shep asked if they cme her for slaves or resources. Survival is the most widely understood idea in the universe (all species strive towards it, otherwise they would not exist). While your theory very well could be true, it would make the Reapers little better then zombies, and would make soveriegn a liar, and Vigil even more wrong who said the Reapers don't reap for resources.

I would allow Reapers the ability to lie when asked questions. And, I thought Vigil didn't know what the Reapers wanted. As to it being a disappointing motivation. I like the idea that no matter how alien a species, how advanced, or how old all life is bound by the fundamental desire to survive. That beneath everything life seeks to continue. That would follow the Mass Effect theme that life is more similar then it is different. At a basic level Humans, Geth, Reapers, or Krogan are all driven by that universal motivation.

Your right, the Reapers could lie, and the way you put it, there would be a good message behind it. I think Vigil said though it was not for resources, and most likely for some reason beyond our comprehension. I guess though personally, I would be dissappointed if it were for survival alone out of my respect and love of Soveriegn, and if he lied, well I can't respect him anymore. Regardless, your spin on survival is a good one, and if BW chooses to go with survival, I hope they put your reasoning behind it.

[sagevallant]

IsaacShep wrote...

Urhm survival?

Harbinger: What efforts have been made to defend our people from the human?

Reaper Council Member (grown from Turians): Ah yes, this "Shepard". We have dismissed these claims.

Harbinger: What do you mean? He'll be the end of us all!

Reaper Council Member: You have been spending too much time around the organics.

Harbinger: Sovereign... my brother... I WILL AVENGE YOU!

[George-Kinsill]

sagevallant wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Urhm survival?

Harbinger: What efforts have been made to defend our people from the human?

Reaper Council Member (grown from Turians): Ah yes, this "Shepard". We have dismissed these claims.

Harbinger: What do you mean? He'll be the end of us all!

Reaper Council Member: You have been spending too much time around the organics.

Harbinger: Sovereign... my brother... I WILL AVENGE YOU!

THIS needs to happen, lol 

[kaiki01]

George-Kinsill wrote...

sagevallant wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Urhm survival?

Harbinger: What efforts have been made to defend our people from the human?

Reaper Council Member (grown from Turians): Ah yes, this "Shepard". We have dismissed these claims.

Harbinger: What do you mean? He'll be the end of us all!

Reaper Council Member: You have been spending too much time around the organics.

Harbinger: Sovereign... my brother... I WILL AVENGE YOU!

THIS needs to happen, lol 

Can the Reaper Council Member & the Turian Counciler make out? It would be as incomprehensable as any motivation BW could come up with

[BordersOfInsanity]

I love a lot of these different motivations for the reapers actions/plans and I agree with a great deal of them. The way I see the reapers motivations is something along the line of the "galactic janitor" theory, where as their basically trying to cleanse the galaxy of organic life so the galaxy is more or less preserved (I don't think the reapers have enough numbers to do this with the entire universe or perhaps they never stop, they just move on to the next galaxy "on the list"). maybe there's some kind of benefit for organics being around, up to a certain point like now when their are to many civilizations in the milky way for our galaxy to sustain itself (this is where the dark energy destroying suns comes in to play) cause if an entire solar system is destroyed by a super nova think how many resources go to a complete waste.

another point in how I see it is that the Protheans basically disrupted this process by changing or disabling the signal in which the keepers respond to. which in turn means the reapers plan aren't necessarily falling apart but hitting a snag that needs to be investigated, hence sovereign begins to examine the problem and determine the best possible solution. Why would sovereign need to lie to Shepard about their motivations maybe sovereign really did believe that organics couldn't understand their rational for their actions, whether our ability to comprehend their said motivations is true or not, sovereign did not seem to hold organics in high regards (f**king with their keepers probably got him a little miffed).

fast forward a couple of months sovereign has been defeated and the reapers decide to kill off Shepard in a surprise attack through the collectors, and attempt to "collect" his remains for study of some kind as to the reapers they may see him as the pinnacle of human evolution as his genes seem "superior". the reason for the harvesting of humans was because of a human killing one of their own hence their attempt at to create a human reaper and "ascend" us (“I am the Harbinger of your ascendance.” "that which you know as reapers are your salvation through destruction"). which I believe that they believe they are the pinnacle of evolution and existence and they may feel obligated to "take care" of the galaxy (or universe) and the "lesser" civilizations within it, so "ascending" us to their state of existence sounds like the perfect way to "take care" of us and the galaxy (or universe).

As for their origins I think they were once an organic race and maybe something happened to where their civilization could no longer sustain itself and then they created (and became) the first reaper and have been repeating this process so other civilizations would not go through what they went through (just to put my opinion simply, as i can go into this point in more detail if asked to).

My last point is the reason that they don't just wait for Shepard to die off in about a hundred years. honestly the reapers aren't necessarily being rushed to destroy all life in the galaxy, yes it would make more sense to wait it out but this is a game. It was stated as a trilogy from the beginning, if the reapers did this there would be no need for a mass effect 3. The reapers main reason for attacking now is mainly because of a storyline mechanic (I think that's the right word to use there). at least that's my opinion on the matter, feel free to take apart my view/opinion on the topic and ask me to elaborate on any of it if I need to.

[sagevallant]

The trick is that the Reapers arrived just a little too late to eliminating the Protheans, which is why the Conduit exists. The Protheans managed to figure out how to MAKE mass effect relays. Which, it is implied in the first game, is when the Reapers like to wipe out the civilizations. That's the level of technology they're aiming at, right before that. In other words, when the civilization most likely starts to become a threat. Why they don't do this long before is unknown.

One imagines it would be difficult to FIND sentient life at all in an entire universe, or just a galaxy. So the Citadel would be a good way to find out when a race has reached the necessary level of technology. Just getting there would require a pretty impressive level of technology.

[ZehnWaters]

Okay, the Reapers *ARE* their creators, isn't that obvious from ME2? They melted *themselves* down and into a Reaper. When they did this, their consciousness 'transcended' normal organics, hence they they are beyond a single organics comprehension. They're job is to 'save' us from our weak, individual state. They talk about this in the most recent ME book.

[ArcticMan94]

They want our peanut butter.

[Reapinger]

ZehnWaters wrote...

Okay, the Reapers *ARE* their creators, isn't that obvious from ME2? They melted *themselves* down and into a Reaper. When they did this, their consciousness 'transcended' normal organics, hence they they are beyond a single organics comprehension. They're job is to 'save' us from our weak, individual state. They talk about this in the most recent ME book.

It's not 100% confirmed in my mind that they are their own creators in my head. I'd like to think that the first reaper was done so voluntarily, but for all we know it could have been the ultimate punishment back in the day to have your civilization reduced to one vessel. LOL. 

[Destr1er]

The Reapers are probably just like us. They fear what they don't understand, and being inorganic technological lifeforms, they do not understand biological life. and that which they don't understand, they fear. And what they fear, they destroy.

As for the collectors using dark energy, was this confirmed?
I always thought that the destabilizing of the sun in Haestrom was Cerberus and their usual unethical research.
I came to this conclusion based on the sun changing color behind the Illusive Man at the end of ME2. I could be mistaken though.

[GreenDragon37]

Maybe they do it for the lolz?

[Sheppard-Commander]

Saaziel wrote...

They're trying to save us.

Once i found a Moth , laying wings first in a pool of chemicals. As i kneeled down to get a closer look , I saw it desperately* struggling to survive; Legs moving rapidly every which way trying to grasp at something , erratic body twitching , spasms. I let it grab my finger , then let it wander on the floor only to realize that it was as good as dead if i didn't get the chemicals off. I poured some water on it , believing it would remove it from its wings. It drowned.

(Yes , yes, slow clap.)

And i can't put into words what i realized just then; The closes thing i can make of it is just how small and insignificant we are, and how truly indifferent the universe really is. **

Just like man is god to the Moth , Reapers are gods to man.

*I'm not sure if Moths are capable of being desperate . Needless to say i was anthropomorphizing what happen to help in communicating the event.

** Its not like i get all Emo with this. Its just this kind of peculiar thing that i can remember Vividly.

(Edit: Also, i'm not doing a Drell wannabe thing. Re reading this it sounded like that.)
(Edit: Ambiance music.)

You, sir, have inspired me to go out and torture multitutedes of insects tommorow just so I can feel like a god. Oh the fun the neighbors will have when they see me shouting commandments at an ant-hill and threatening them with a windex flood if they do not obey, or maybe sending my dog after them.

Assuming direct control, Max!

Modifié par Sheppard-Commander, 28 juin 2011 - 04:34 .

[Sheppard-Commander]

edit: double post, trying to find delete button.

Modifié par Sheppard-Commander, 28 juin 2011 - 04:31 .

[GnusmasTHX]

Arrogance and stupidity.

[Kileyan]

I have no idea what the Reapers are up to.

I would think they are long live beings with a lot of patience, or more likely things where the passage of time means little to them.

So they sort of cull civilizations every once in a while. I can see doing that if you want to sit back and watch some civilizations create things, let them do the work, let the bazillions of different races over time explore ideas and create things the Reapers(or the reapers creators)never thought of.

What doesn't make sense is just at the time the galaxies races start to use relays, they are wiped out shortly after(relatively). I don't know how to put it, it is like carefully cultivating a galaxy full of scientists and such, opening them up to meet and share knowledge, then wiping them out right before they might create anything usefull to such an advanced race.

So I throw up my hands, I have no idea what they are up to. Are they just some sadistic overly advanced kids who are torturing the animal they have in thier labs cage?

[Parion]

Imo, if they have a goal we're capable of understanding it's an ideological one.
I think they're trying to cultivate a specific type of species, with physical and/or mental capabilities they believe are ideal, but they're perpetually disappointed. They seed a galaxy with life, wait till it establishes space-faring races, and when they inevitably find fault they cut them down before they get a chance to develop down unknown paths.
Ultimately they see themselves as the purpose of creation, free to shape the universe to thier whims.

Another idea I had is based Sovereign's phrase "We have no beginning. We have no end. We are infinite."
If the ME universe allows for it then the reapers may be result of a causal loop. They reap until the end of the universe and use the resources and tech they've gathered over the millenia to travel back in time till the universe's beginning, or at least a mechanism to create the first reaper.
All thier work may be to alter the basic gravitational layout of the universe so as to make this possible, or leading into the previous idea they may be trying to bring about the rise of thier own creator species, although a causal loop means they don't actually need a creator species.


I don't think the reapers feel rushed beyond the slight worry that if they wait to long then we might develop to the point where we can mount an effective defence, something infinitely more likely with the reaper tech already aquired.
Rather, I think they're attacking now because there's no real point in waiting. They don't see shepard as an actual threat, he's a pest, a fly buzzing around the ear of a titan.

[Omega Torsk]

I have my theories, but the whole "every 50,000 years" thing always causes me to hit a brick wall with them. Since Mass Relays exist in nearly every star system, why don't the Reapers simply wipe out all life permanently? What is the point of this cycle of extinction? Are they even trying to cull life? Or are they just a hyper-advanced version of the internet troll? Their motives are so bizarre that you can't arrive at any other conclusion other than they're doing it because they're a bunch of arrogant jerks!

Your theory is interesting, but if the Reapers are trying to prevent dark energy buildup, why did they even create the mass relays in the first place? Also, just a small bit of constructive criticism, you have a LOT of missing letters in your topic (I can point out at least two in your subject heading, alone). Not a big issue, just nitpicking here...

As to the Reapers' ultimate motivation, I really haven't the slightest idea... but I know Bioware does! And, personally, I can't wait to see the reason they come up with!

[Purge the heathens]

Parion wrote...

Another idea I had is based Sovereign's phrase "We have no beginning. We have no end. We are infinite."
If the ME universe allows for it then the reapers may be result of a causal loop. They reap until the end of the universe and use the resources and tech they've gathered over the millenia to travel back in time till the universe's beginning, or at least a mechanism to create the first reaper.

I wouldn't take this too literally. It could mean that, given enough time, every sentient species will upgrade itself to Reaper status and restart the cycle. So if ME3 spells the end of the current incarnation of the Reapers, they will eventually reappear in another form.

I'm interested in their take on "salvation." It's a keyword for them, I think. Harbinger calls the Reapers our "salvation through destruction" and in Retribution, they claim that they're seeking salvation - not just ours, but their own, too.

Maybe they aren't satisfied with their state of being and believe that there's still a higher form of existence reachable through their experiments. Waiting in dark space, pondering the mysteries of the universe until, once again, the time comes to return and see whether evolution has brought about the answer to that final question and the opportunity to create the one, objectively perfect form of life.

Modifié par Purge the heathens, 28 juin 2011 - 12:53 .

[George-Kinsill]

Omega Torsk wrote...

I have my theories, but the whole "every 50,000 years" thing always causes me to hit a brick wall with them. Since Mass Relays exist in nearly every star system, why don't the Reapers simply wipe out all life permanently? What is the point of this cycle of extinction? Are they even trying to cull life? Or are they just a hyper-advanced version of the internet troll? Their motives are so bizarre that you can't arrive at any other conclusion other than they're doing it because they're a bunch of arrogant jerks!

Your theory is interesting, but if the Reapers are trying to prevent dark energy buildup, why did they even create the mass relays in the first place? Also, just a small bit of constructive criticism, you have a LOT of missing letters in your topic (I can point out at least two in your subject heading, alone). Not a big issue, just nitpicking here...

As to the Reapers' ultimate motivation, I really haven't the slightest idea... but I know Bioware does! And, personally, I can't wait to see the reason they come up with!

Sorry about the missing letters, but for a week I was working on a laptop with a broken keyboard, hence the missing letters. As for the Mass Realys, they are there so civilizations advance along paths the Reapers can predict. If it were not for the Alliace discovering the Realy near pluto, they would have finished their Mass Relay Jump Zero, which really would have made things unpredictable when trying to destroy everything.
As for just destroying all life entirely, they wouldn't do this as then there would be no more new Reapers, and they probably see it as overly cruel, as they are perfectly fine with organics (and in fact need them) they just have to preserve the galaxy, which they seem to do perfectly fine by hust destroying all organics every 50,000 years, thus it is the best of both worlds.
As for the Mass Relay construction, they are most likely the most efficitient type of mass relay there is, conserving dark energy compared to newer, organic built mass relays. A good example of this is a national electrical grid, which transports energy. In many third world countries or countries that tried to build an electrical grid for the first time, 90%+ energy is lost in the transportation, and even the U.S. looses 50%. By building the Mass Relays, THe Reapers made a transportation grid that most likely is as efficient as possible, and looses next to no energy in inefficienies, making it abuse dark energy at a minnimum, which is preferable to organics making their own, becoming unpredictable, and abusing dark energy at a maximum with their primative Relays.
Again, all of this is pure speculation, but I believe speculation into the Reapers motivation is beneficial to strengthening a creative mind, and who knows, one of us may be right (and have bragging rights) or one of our ideas may be incorporated. 

[Omega Torsk]

George-Kinsill wrote...

Sorry about the missing letters, but for a week I was working on a laptop with a broken keyboard, hence the missing letters.

Apologies. I kind of guessed that was the problem. Sorry if I sounded rude or something.

Your theory is actually very interesting and one of the better ones out there, but I have a hard time buying that the Reapers' goals are ultimately noble ones. If Reapers absolutely need organics, why is Sovereign so spiteful towards them? Calling them accidents and whatnot. Okay, Sovereign, so vicariously you're an accident (or at least the product of one)! His motives come across as very anti-organic (ie: suggesting the Geth replace the Keepers on the Citadel, etc). One of my theories is that the Reapers are simply shackled to their prime directive; a relic from an ancient battle waged millions of years ago. Their creators are long-extinct, but the Reapers remain, carrying out their directive every 50,000 years (for some reason).

[Omega Torsk]

Arrgh! Double post! 

Modifié par Omega Torsk, 28 juin 2011 - 05:11 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Honestly, probably for shiz & giggles. A lot of epic story villians do things for pretty inane reasons. Not saying it definitely is, but just gird yourself in case it is.