71 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumikki]

I am the Harbinger of your perfection wrote...

also you mentioned that why dont they send someone to check it
that is because they presume that it is working.

This doesn't make sense to me. If it's working they can use it, but they don't?
If they can't use it, then it's not working. They just ignore it?

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 juin 2011 - 02:47 .

[Paul Sedgmore]

Lumikki wrote...

I am the Harbinger of your perfection wrote...

also you mentioned that why dont they send someone to check it
that is because they presume that it is working.

This doesn't make sense to me. If it's working they can use it, but they don't?
If they can't use it, then it's not working. They just ignore it?

Soveriegn metions that they want the races of the galaxy to evolve along the paths that they desire (using the relays and other tech the Reapers have left behind as the base of the technology) which makes it seem they are only interested in races that have mastered Mass Effect tech rather than just space flight.

Vigil also mentions that the Reapers use the Citadel to obtain the information required to know where all the current speices which use the relays are. I'm assuming that they use the records of any and all Mass Relays which have been activated since the last cycle.

Modifié par Paul Sedgmore, 24 juin 2011 - 02:58 .

[Lumikki]

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

I am the Harbinger of your perfection wrote...

also you mentioned that why dont they send someone to check it
that is because they presume that it is working.

This doesn't make sense to me. If it's working they can use it, but they don't?
If they can't use it, then it's not working. They just ignore it?

Soveriegn metions that they want the races of the galaxy to evolve along the paths that they desire (using the relays and other tech the Reapers have left behind as the base of the technology) which makes it seem they are only interested in races that have mastered Mass Effect tech rather than just space flight.

Vigil also mentions that the Reapers use the Citadel to obtain the information required to know where all the current speices which use the relays are. I'm assuming that they use the records of any and all Mass Relays which have been activated since the last cycle.

So, what you say is that if some high advance civilation in somewhere in galaxy deside not to use Mass Relay as it's so damm primitive and stay isolated, Reapers gonna ignore them, because they are only interested dummer advanced races who use they Mass relay?

Point been this would mean Reapers hole operation is based that ALL races behave sertain way and no other possibility exist. So, they are too lazy to check the other posibilities and what can lead civilization what can wipe reapers from existence?

Wasn't Reapers suppose to be smart?

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 juin 2011 - 03:18 .

[Paul Sedgmore]

Lumikki wrote...

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

I am the Harbinger of your perfection wrote...

also you mentioned that why dont they send someone to check it
that is because they presume that it is working.

This doesn't make sense to me. If it's working they can use it, but they don't?
If they can't use it, then it's not working. They just ignore it?

Soveriegn metions that they want the races of the galaxy to evolve along the paths that they desire (using the relays and other tech the Reapers have left behind as the base of the technology) which makes it seem they are only interested in races that have mastered Mass Effect tech rather than just space flight.

Vigil also mentions that the Reapers use the Citadel to obtain the information required to know where all the current speices which use the relays are. I'm assuming that they use the records of any and all Mass Relays which have been activated since the last cycle.

So, what you say is that if some high advance civilation in somewhere in galaxy deside not to use Mass Relay as it's so damm primitive, Reapers gonna ignore them, because they are only interested dummer advanced races who use they Mass relay?

It seems to be, whatever the Reapers require from the species that they target seems to require something that is a byproduct of using Mass Effect tech for example Biotic potential is directly linked to Eezo exposure which is increadably unlikely without Mass Effect tech.

Plus leaving species that haven't advanced down these paths yet makes sense as it takes a species more than 50,000 years to get to that point.

[Lumikki]

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

Plus leaving species that haven't advanced down these paths yet makes sense as it takes a species more than 50,000 years to get to that point.

Yeah, but if they miss race because this, then that race had 100,000 or even more years to advance. Meaning Reapers are making asumption how ALL races behave and not checking possible issues.

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 juin 2011 - 03:34 .

[Whatever42]

The problem with this discussion is that we're still guessing at the Reaper's motivations.

Why do they insist that a race achieve a particular technological advancement? What exactly are they harvesting from these races?

Personally, I believe its how Reapers advance and evolve. Being machines and networked, they lack the drive, randomness, and creativity to advance and evolve on their own. So they advance races down their chosen own technological path and let the races continue to advance to a point with that technology. Then the Reapers swoop in and harvest all the technological and biological features that they want to add to their own society.

Humanity without relay travel would have nothing that interests the Reapers. Oh, biologically they might be worth adding but they were worth adding 50k years ago too. I believe that the Reapers want an ascended race to also be advanced down their particular technology tree to make that species compatible.

If that's true then the most the Reapers would do is kick humanity to the curb to set it back a little and then leave it alone to evolve and advance further. Reapers are immortal. They can wait 50k years.

This is all conjecture, of course. But without understand what really motivates the giant killer robots, its hard to guess what they would do.

[Paul Sedgmore]

Lumikki wrote...

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

Plus leaving species that haven't advanced down these paths yet makes sense as it takes a species more than 50,000 years to get to that point.

Yeah, but if they miss race because this, then that race had 100,000 or even more years to advance. Meaning Reapers are making asumption how ALL races behave and not checking possible issues.

The only way for any race to be a threat to the Reapers is to have a reliable FTL system, the easiest way to do that is to adapt the Mass Relays which is exactly what the Reapers want. I can't see very many races turning down a shortcut to FTL travel when it is readily available by adapting a relic from a previous race.

[VegasVance]

Saphra Deden wrote...

The Reapers would have found us anyway.

Yup, if it takes thousands of years for their extinction to be complete, guess which race is getting a full on reaper invasion the moment they take the Charon Relay online?

[Fogg]

I stick to what I've heared in the game, like Paul Sedgmore says, that they only take on the races that used the relays.

I mean, would they also destroy humanity when they would've arrived in 1643? Yes, no? Or in 245? Or 241 before Christ? Only 2.000 years from space travel, leaving 48.000 years to use the Citadel and all.

Modifié par Schrijver, 24 juin 2011 - 04:04 .

[Lumikki]

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

The only way for any race to be a threat to the Reapers is to have a reliable FTL system, the easiest way to do that is to adapt the Mass Relays which is exactly what the Reapers want.

Just because someone could not think something totally different, doesn't mean it's impossible to exist. Reapers try to manipulate everyone using they technology so that it leads sertain development path, but if they are too lazy to check that everyone actually does it, this can lead mistakes and something unexpected happens. Never assume, because it can lead mistakes.

Example you comment make two assumptions:

1. You assume that only way to threat Reapers is FTL?
 - Assumtion that FTL is only fast travel option.
2. You assume that easyest way to have FTL is Mass relay?
 - Assumtion that some race hasn't allready found it by it self or something else.

We have no idea what kind of races can exist and how they advance. Assuming is mistake. More like Reapers hope that races adapt and take they technology as they own. But there is no guarantees that this happens, it's just assumption based what usally happens. What happens when this asumption fails and some race advance without reapers technology.

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 juin 2011 - 04:20 .

[I am the Harbinger of your perfection]

Lumikki wrote...

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

The only way for any race to be a threat to the Reapers is to have a reliable FTL system, the easiest way to do that is to adapt the Mass Relays which is exactly what the Reapers want.

Someone could not think something totally different, doesn't mean it's impossible to exist. Reapers try to manipulate everyone using they technology so that it leads sertain development path, but if they are too lazy to check that everyone actually does it, this can lead mistakes and something unexpected happens. Never assume, because it can lead mistakes.

so your telling me if have just discovered how to get into space then you find a mass relay you would just simply ignore it and find out a different way how to travel across the galaxy intelligent species would always take the easy option even non-intelligent speices take the easiest option its in our nature

[Paul Sedgmore]

FTL travel is the only way to mount an effective attack against a threat that can travel at FTL speeds (and I'm including any form of travel that would take you from one point in the galaxy to another near instantaniously, wheather that be reducing the mass of the ship, using worm holes, folding space or any other form of travel that would allow this as FTL)

If you give a group of people a target (in this case FTL travel) and provide an existing technology that would reduce the amount of time it would take to produce that target (in this casethe Mass Relays) 99.9% of those people would adapt that existing tech.

[Art3m]

You know, if humanity didn't find the technology before the cycle, and then does, we would destroy ourselves without any cycle in an enormous human interspace war...

[LPPrince]

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

FTL travel is the only way to mount an effective attack against a threat that can travel at FTL speeds (and I'm including any form of travel that would take you from one point in the galaxy to another near instantaniously, wheather that be reducing the mass of the ship, using worm holes, folding space or any other form of travel that would allow this as FTL)

If you give a group of people a target (in this case FTL travel) and provide an existing technology that would reduce the amount of time it would take to produce that target (in this casethe Mass Relays) 99.9% of those people would adapt that existing tech.

I'd say 100% would use the tech. Anyone who doesn't is ridiculously senseless. They'd waste resources and time trying to find their own way when the tech is right there and can't harm anyone.

The Reapers offered the geth ascension but they decided not to utilize it so they could find their own way. Some could say this is senseless because they'd waste resources and time trying to find their own way but the difference is that the geth knew that the Reapers were dangerous. The geth believe that all life has the right to exist, organic or synthetic.

Its really an argument of danger or no danger. The Mass Relays aren't dangerous(to anyone who initially finds them) so there's nothing stopping them from utilizing it.

The Reapers, on the other hand...

[Lumikki]

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

FTL travel is the only way to mount an effective attack against a threat that can travel at FTL speeds (and I'm including any form of travel that would take you from one point in the galaxy to another near instantaniously, wheather that be reducing the mass of the ship, using worm holes, folding space or any other form of travel that would allow this as FTL)

Did you include travel forms what are superior compared to reapers FTL travel?

Example travel instanly in anywhere without moving at all? Meaning no ships or Mass relay required or anything like Reapers does.

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 juin 2011 - 04:25 .

[LPPrince]

Mesina2 wrote...

Raloi have even worse timing.

And I wish more people commented on this. Ha.

The raloi are being introduced into Galactic Society WAAAAY too close to the Reaper invasion. I feel bad for them.

I guess you can blame the asari for finding them, but its not like it was intentional.

Still, I hope they can help out any way they can.

[LPPrince]

Lumikki wrote...

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

FTL travel is the only way to mount an effective attack against a threat that can travel at FTL speeds (and I'm including any form of travel that would take you from one point in the galaxy to another near instantaniously, wheather that be reducing the mass of the ship, using worm holes, folding space or any other form of travel that would allow this as FTL)

Did you include travel forms what are superior compared to FTL travel?

Example travel instanly in anywhere without moving at all? Meaning no ships or Mass relay required or anything like Reapers does.

Seeing as there's no hint that instantaneous travel is possible in the ME universe, your point is moot.

You're insinuating that a race discovering the relays would choose to ignore them and find a way to instantly travel anywhere at even faster speeds.

You would think that maybe they'd look at Mass Effect Technology and use that to research instantaneous travel.

Either way, they'd still use it.

[Paul Sedgmore]

@LPPrince - There is always that 0.1% of people who would do the opposite of what you expect even when it seems obvious that using the easier way seems to be best at the time.

[Lumikki]

LPPrince wrote...

Seeing as there's no hint that instantaneous travel is possible in the ME universe, your point is moot.

You're insinuating that a race discovering the relays would choose to ignore them and find a way to instantly travel anywhere at even faster speeds.

You would think that maybe they'd look at Mass Effect Technology and use that to research instantaneous travel.

Either way, they'd still use it.

You assume that it can't happen, same assumption what dumm Reapers makes, that's they mistake. Never assume that something can't happen, because you self have no knowledge about it. There could be even born race what has no physical body. This about what kind of psi- or energy based they technology could be. Affecting materials around as by just directing energy with mind power.

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 juin 2011 - 04:45 .

[Paul Sedgmore]

Lumikki wrote...

Did you include travel forms what are superior compared to reapers FTL travel?

I did say I'm including any form of travel that would take you from one point in the galaxy to another near instantaniously

Example travel instanly in anywhere without moving at all? Meaning no ships or Mass relay required or anything like Reapers does.

See folding space

[I am the Harbinger of your perfection]

your arguement is only valid really in this scenario but even then it has its flaws
maybe if there is a cluster with no relay then perhaps they would indepedently advance with out mass relays and the other reaper based technology but im pretty sure that the reapers monitor it and even then it would take a very long time for intelligent life to form

[Lumikki]

I am the Harbinger of your perfection wrote...

your arguement is only valid really in this scenario but even then it has its flaws
maybe if there is a cluster with no relay then perhaps they would indepedently advance with out mass relays and the other reaper based technology but im pretty sure that the reapers monitor it and even then it would take a very long time for intelligent life to form

Exactly, so they would not dismiss any race what is inside they cluster, did human race find the Mass relay or not is irrelevant, it's advance level of human race what matters. Back to orginal point..

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 juin 2011 - 04:43 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

@LPPrince - There is always that 0.1% of people who would do the opposite of what you expect even when it seems obvious that using the easier way seems to be best at the time.

Unsurprisingly, the .1% of people who avoid dominant technologies are themselves not dominant.

[Destroy Raiden_]

I don't think us being able to space travel would've mattered. Say we never found that beacon on Mars, we progressed enough by that point to be counted or at least considered for part of the reaper menu it's only they would've gone all out on some other poor sod instead of us first.

[I am the Harbinger of your perfection]

Lumikki wrote...

Exactly, so they would not dismiss any race what is inside they cluster, did human race find the Mass relay or not is irrelevant, it's advance level of human race what matters. Back to orginal point..

yes but the formation of a new cluster would get the reapers attention and therefore study, it an already formed cluster such ours the reapers would only study it if there was a record of the relay being opened and used but up until is was defrozen it hadn't been used for ages so they would not check up as they would think no life has eveolved far enough to become space faring, and not worthy of harvesting yet because as i said before they wouldn't harvest us as we wouldn't have anythinng to offer them except flesh and that wouldn't really furhter their race, so they would just simply ignore it and us