65 réponses à ce sujet

[Pellegrin]

I'm working on a balance mod, but haven't had the time to make multiple playthroughs to test all the different class combinations. So I'm asking those interested to provide input on specific talents/spells they feel are too weak or too powerful. Please consider the strength of the talent line as a whole. If Talent 1 is marginal but Talent 2-4 are great then Talent 1 may not be a big deal. Also compare talent levels to other talent levels...a tier 1 spell should not be as good as tier 4...

[Spyndel]

Force Field.

Shimmering Shield (AW) seems broken....theres no way it was meant to be permanent...it's too powerful. If it behaved like every other ability with a mana drain it would shut off when you bottomed out mana. Fixing this would go a long way towards making the Arcane Warrior class more reasonable.

Modifié par Spyndel, 20 novembre 2009 - 06:12 .

[Sean0883]

Cone of cold needs a longer cooldown.

Fire cone needs to do more damage. As it is it does about as much as cone of cold without the wicked CC.

[abominare]

2 mages with cone of cold means you now can trivialize any fight in the game. Revenants? no problem they wont even get an attack off GG you win.

[Spyndel]

Fire cone needs to do more damage. As it is it does about as much as cone of cold without the wicked CC.

Yes, but the one is a tier 1 spell, while the other is tier 3.

[Sean0883]

Spyndel wrote...

Fire cone needs to do more damage. As it is it does about as much as cone of cold without the wicked CC.

Yes, but the one is a tier 1 spell, while the other is tier 3.

True, i guess I did forget that little tid bit of information lol

[Scyles]

Where to begin?

-Stealth item use and trap placement trivializes combat by allowing rogues to continually deal damage without any threat. Throwing a bomb or successfully placing a trap should reveal the rogue.

-Cone of Cold's duration outlasts its cooldown as caster's magic score increases. At 75 magic, I can keep yellows frozen indefinitely on Nightmare with Cone of Cold alone.

-Blizzard can be cast through walls, very often beginning and ending battles by itself. It initially knocks down enemies, and then forces multiple resistance checks against freezing. Usually, if an opponent fails to resist a single time, they're stuck for the entire duration, even on Nightmare. The resistance checks should at least be far less rapid, or perhaps one initial check against freezing and, if passed, only a slow effect for the rest of the duration.

-Mana Clash is absurd. Draining casters of all mana is punishment enough. If damage must also be inflicted, it should be a fixed percentage of the caster's health. As it is, Mana Clash is basically a death sentence to casters, and dissuades player mages from investing in the Willpower stat.

I'm not up to writing all of this, there's so much left to say about overpowered talents/spells alone. Someone else's turn.

[Spyndel]

Scyles wrote...

Where to begin?
-Stealth item use and trap placement trivializes combat by allowing rogues to continually deal damage without any threat. Throwing a bomb or successfully placing a trap should reveal the rogue.

I agree that situationally this can be very potent, but I think it is mitigated somewhat by the high use of expensive and finite consumables.  Grenades and Traps require a broad list of ingreidients that are not unlimited like Lyrium dust. Is there a potent "infinte" traps of grenade recipie in the game? It is not quite comparable to a mage with his unlimited mana/Lyrium pots.    If there is some infinite grenade recipie, I think *this* should be looked at.

After all, consumables *should*  be potent and useful, no?  Do you really only think rogues should be able to set a single trap before a battle?  That would seem to take much of the appeal away from the ability.  I do tend to agree though, that a grenade should break stealth.

[Scyles]

Spyndel wrote...
I agree that situationally this can be very potent, but I think it is mitigated somewhat by the high use of expensive and finite consumables.

The bombs are quite inexpensive to make, but I am uncertain whether or not the consumables are finite.  Do stores ever refresh their inventories?  As for traps, the issue as I see it is not pre-combat trap-laying, but rather dropping out of combat via stealth, placing a trap under the enemy's toes, and repeating.

EDIT: you can buy unlimited toxin extracts at the Dalish merchant, I believe.

Modifié par Scyles, 21 novembre 2009 - 02:09 .

[mr fodder]

As warrior I was terribly disapointed with Deathblow, you can hardly see your stamina increasing.

[Pellegrin]

Spyndel wrote...

Force Field.

Shimmering Shield (AW) seems broken....theres no way it was meant to be permanent...it's too powerful. If it behaved like every other ability with a mana drain it would shut off when you bottomed out mana. Fixing this would go a long way towards making the Arcane Warrior class more reasonable.

Do any of the spells actually lose you enough mana that it shuts off? I can run multiple mana degeneration spells simultaneously and still recover mana, albeit at a lower rate.

[Spyndel]

Pellegrin wrote...

Spyndel wrote...

Force Field.

Shimmering Shield (AW) seems broken....theres no way it was meant to be permanent...it's too powerful. If it behaved like every other ability with a mana drain it would shut off when you bottomed out mana. Fixing this would go a long way towards making the Arcane Warrior class more reasonable.

Do any of the spells actually lose you enough mana that it shuts off? I can run multiple mana degeneration spells simultaneously and still recover mana, albeit at a lower rate.

Shimmering shield will bottom out your mana.  Quite quickly too, if as most Arcane Warriors are, you are running a bunch of Sustainables that reduce your mana pool.  The example of how I think this was *supposed* to work is like the Spirit Healer  Aura toggle that drains mana.  You can't run that indefinitely, it will eventually shut off.  Shimmering Shield Stays on though, even with no Mana.

The alternative is to believe the Devs really intended for Arcane Warriors to be walking around with functionaly permanent   60+ armor and 80+ Defense and Minimum 75% ( and higher) resistance to *everything*.  I don't believe this...every other sustainable that has an active mana drain shuts off when you bottom out.   Even without it, AWs can have higher Armor Ratings than any warrior...Perma Shimmmering Shield just seems way over the top.

Modifié par Spyndel, 20 novembre 2009 - 08:00 .

[Kolaris8472]

Yeah, Deathblow restores what, 5 Stamina? For a Tier 4 ability I would expect 15+. It doesn't help Tanks AT ALL.

[themaxzero]

Spyndel wrote...

Pellegrin wrote...

Spyndel wrote...

Force Field.

Shimmering Shield (AW) seems broken....theres no way it was meant to be permanent...it's too powerful. If it behaved like every other ability with a mana drain it would shut off when you bottomed out mana. Fixing this would go a long way towards making the Arcane Warrior class more reasonable.

Do any of the spells actually lose you enough mana that it shuts off? I can run multiple mana degeneration spells simultaneously and still recover mana, albeit at a lower rate.

Shimmering shield will bottom out your mana.  Quite quickly too, if as most Arcane Warriors are, you are running a bunch of Sustainables that reduce your mana pool.  The example of how I think this was *supposed* to work is like the Spirit Healer  Aura toggle that drains mana.  You can't run that indefinitely, it will eventually shut off.  Shimmering Shield Stays on though, even with no Mana.

The alternative is to believe the Devs really intended for Arcane Warriors to be walking around with functionaly permanent   60+ armor and 80+ Defense and Minimum 75% ( and higher) resistance to *everything*.  I don't believe this...every other sustainable that has an active mana drain shuts off when you bottom out.   Even without it, AWs can have higher Armor Ratings than any warrior...Perma Shimmmering Shield just seems way over the top.

Shimmering Shield is bugged on the PC. It supposed to shut off.

[Medet]

force field should reduce threat to 0

2h sweep should have a reduced cooldown or be passive at 50% splash with no knockdown. Give some reason to go 2h over dual with a bit more crowd control.

Critical Strike (t4) seems to do the same thing as Mighty Blow (t1) less the movement penalty. Maybe give it a bleed effect or increased damage?

[Korva]

I swear Death Blow (warrior) is bugged. Or rather, I hope it is bugged because when I tested it I did not notice ANY stamina gain. At all. For a fourth-tier talent it really is a joke.

Holy Smite (templar) leaves me unimpressed. I thought it'd lay some serious hurt on "white" mages at least but the few times I've had the chance to use it on casters so far it got them maybe to half health. Yes, the knockdown and the fact that it affects non-casters to a degree is nice, but since it too is a 4th-tier talent I was expecting more, especially for the stamina cost.

Cleanse Area (templar) leaves me even more unimpressed. It says "friendly fire possible" but it does squat to magical debuffs on my characters, and that is the primary reason why I wanted it since I've no other way to remove them. I hope this too is a bug.

Arrow of Slaying (Archery) seems to miss nine times out of ten, even against "white" enemies. Yes, once or twice Leliana has done ~230 damage with it which isn't bad, but usually it doesn't hit, much less "slay" anything. Is that normal?

Rejuvenation (mage) and Song of Valor (bard) have a barely noticeable effect and should be buffed up a bit IMO.

[Devilsway]

Shape Shifting.......no incentive to use it for any reason. It would be cool if more abilities were available in the animal forms. Give bear more of a tanking aspect as spider more of a stealth/damage aspect. I thought it was going to be tatical and cool, not so much....

[hexaligned]

Forcefield is the obvious one, how it made it through testing I can't even imagine.
Not a talent, but the infinite mana situation needs to change from a balance perspective, there needs to be SOME sort of limit of how many spells you can cast in a battle. Maybe increase their crafting mat reqs by a factor of 4 or something.

for Underpowered, the whole shapeshifter (and imo templar) lines need to be reworked, I know some people like Templar but with mana clash and arrow of slaying, enemy mages are one shottable jokes as it is, and there are far to few of them in the first place to take a specilization slot for it.

Modifié par relhart, 21 novembre 2009 - 01:50 .

[Loc'n'lol]

Critical strike (2 handed) needs to be made like arrow of slaying (and both could be given a knockdown on enemies who are immune to instadeath). It's inacceptable for a tier 4 talent to be flat out inferior to a tier 1 talent of the same tree.

[Spyndel]

Shapeshifting is something that they're looking at officially. At last word I believe I read they were looking at making the transformation more instantaneous to increase the flexibility. They did say though that the shapeshifter was never going to match the AW in terms of melee combat/tanking, so without that, I don't know how much appeal, outside of roleplaying, there could ever be for the spec.



Unless the special abilities they gain in each of the forms is so appealing it becomes worth giving up casting potential, I just dont see it. As it stands right now, those abilities are not, and probably wouldnt be with any simple stat boost. It would take a significant rework.

[5Warlocks]

If it's possible to implement, some sort of crowd control diminishing returns mechanic would be a decent way to balance a few party combinations. I am thinking specifically of stacking multiple Mages with Cone of Cold to keep a boss disabled for extended periods of time. Even with a boss' built in DR, and even with a longer CoC cooldown, bringing three Mages could probably do the trick. CC diminishing returns would also force reliance on a wider array of crowd control rather than just picking up CoC and Sleep and being fine on anything bar Nightmare.

[Dannonn]

Spyndel wrote...

Shimmering Shield (AW) seems broken....theres no way it was meant to be permanent...it's too powerful. If it behaved like every other ability with a mana drain it would shut off when you bottomed out mana. Fixing this would go a long way towards making the Arcane Warrior class more reasonable.

I've seen a lot of people give this argument for Shimmering Shield, but I still don't think that even if they fixed that it still wouldn't be overpowered. What is the big deal if it shuts off when out of mana? Just pop a mana pot when you get low? Use mana regen items and rejuvenation/mass rejuvenation from your healer...this really doesn't solve the problem with it.

What I think needs to be done is make the resistances scale with your magic score. For instances, 5 resist for every 10 points in magic over 10. That way if you want this to be great you have to max magic. So if you can get your magic score to 70, then it would improve resistances by 30. I think that is more reasonable than what it is at now which is max all magic resists and like +70 to mental/phys.

[Spyndel]

Dannonn wrote...

Spyndel wrote...

Shimmering Shield (AW) seems broken....theres no way it was meant to be permanent...it's too powerful. If it behaved like every other ability with a mana drain it would shut off when you bottomed out mana. Fixing this would go a long way towards making the Arcane Warrior class more reasonable.

I've seen a lot of people give this argument for Shimmering Shield, but I still don't think that even if they fixed that it still wouldn't be overpowered. What is the big deal if it shuts off when out of mana? Just pop a mana pot when you get low?

Talent cooldown. I don't remember what is is offhand, but it isnt insignificant.   It would effectively take it out of play until the next battle, for however long you can run it.

Still a very powerful defensive buff obviously, being able to only use it situationally for relatively short durations (as it drains mana on top of whatever toggles you are running that reduce your mana) is a far cry from it being Perma-bugged. 

  It also wouldnt let AW/BM so blatantly dump their Willpower stat.  If they wanted to use this ability at all, they'd *have* to devote more points into WIL, and not just shovel everything into CON.

[Zilod]

force field is ok, is the AI that is flawed... if you forcefield your tank the critters should ignore it (at least the non animal ones)



and i think too that if they fix shimmering shield "deactivation bug" it will be enought to not make it OP (expecially for BMs)



crossing fingers for shapeshifter, but if they dont plan to make forms more powerfull and with more skills i dont see how it can be usefull... if an AW will still be better in melee, and on top of that have still the ability to cast spells and use sustained buffs it will always be stronger and more versatile than a shifter... until they dont plan to put in a crapload of fancy and powerfull forms to switch into

[Bluesmith]

OP
--------
+ Shimmering Shield (discussed enough already)
+ Cone of Cone (high damage, easily chained CC)
+ AOEs castable through walls (self-explanatory)
+ Crushing Prison (essentially an instant kill; incredibly annoying when used against you)
+ Paralyze Explosion and its ilk (duration)
+ Momentum
+ Mana Clash, situationally
+ Force Field

UP
----------
+ Most 2H talents, particularly Critical Strike and Shattering Blows. Possible exceptions to this include Mighty Blow, Indomintable, and 2H Sweep (although 2H sweep needs its attack penalty removed). 2Hers in general are horrible.
+ Most DW talents for rogues. Possible exceptions to this include Whirlwind and DW Sweep. Autoattack backstabs tend to do better, at least for the stam cost (i.e., autoattacks are *free*).
+ Most activated shield attack abilities (Overpower, Assault, etc.). They just seem to miss all the time.
+ Deathblow
+ Shapeshifting in its entirety
+ Fourth line creation spells (spellwhisp+). 
+ Mage (arcane) tree. It's not horrible but it doesn't compete with other trees at all.

Modifié par Bluesmith, 21 novembre 2009 - 04:49 .