241 réponses à ce sujet

[azerSheppard]

Reapers>everything
everything including the Reapers themselves 0.o
That's how powerfull they are.

[SalsaDMA]

Not gonna keep up chopping quotes, as it make for messed up replies. I can see formating on your last reply got caught out by them as well.

Anyways. Your claim about what they have seen of tactics is interesting. Cause as far as we know they HAVEN'T seen fleetscale tactics from any opposition before. As far as we have been led to believe, their plan of cutting off the head of galactic communication through the citadel was succesfull each and every time. They always thought with whatever fleets happened to be stranded in single systems, as opposed to the combined fleet of the entire galaxy.
That's quite a difference, especially as we are also talking about an enemy that KNOWS about them now, as opposed to them popping out of the dark with no warning on each and every system like they did when things went according to their 'master plan'.

Oh.. And FTL work through relays, yes. But the citadel controls the relays, it's not the reapers doing so innately. That's why the citadel was important for them to control when following their masterplan.

As for Jokers comment, you have no context to put that in. All that comment tells us is that Sovy is maneuverable. For all you know, Joker could be asuming a comparison with alliance ships of a comparable size, which wouldn't be an unheard of asumption. He doesn't specify a shipclass, but is making use of a vague term, so you cannot know if he is giving scientific data, or just making an outburst. To be honest, it sounds more like the latter to me than the former. So I'll refuse to take that comment as 'proof' of sovereign being more maneuverable than, say, the normandy.

And your imagination of how a battle would go automatically asumes a battleplan that is against doctrines and tactics that should be used. Good work chap. You totally ignored what people here are saying as far as tactics goes. Why bother chiming in on that area when you are going to ignore sound tactical propositions given in the thread anyway?

[SalsaDMA]

azerSheppard wrote...

Reapers>everything
everything including the Reapers themselves 0.o
That's how powerfull they are.

Feel free to be disapointed at the end of the game when the reapers are beaten then.

[azerSheppard]

SalsaDMA wrote...

azerSheppard wrote...

Reapers>everything
everything including the Reapers themselves 0.o
That's how powerfull they are.

Feel free to be disapointed at the end of the game when the reapers are beaten then.

If the milky way wins this war with head on combat with all the forces united, I will never ever ever buy a single bioware game again. It just doesn't make ANY sense at all, the Reapers never failed before, why now? Are we really going to the humans are special trope, really??
I don't care IF their beaten, i only care about HOW.

Example: Geth achieve superintelligence by combining all AI into one supercore. Due to their choice to take a different path in tech development, compared to the reapers, they achieve not a higher level of tech, but simply something the reapers have not seen before, or couldn't anticipate due to their narrow way of thinking (only me tech). Can be a software based weapon.

Example: Creating superweapons that can oneshot Reapers (hollywood style, boring as ****)

Example: Dark energy subplot. (likely)

Example: Finding remnats of weaponry used by ancient civilizations (unlikely)

[ZLurps]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Not gonna keep up chopping quotes, as it make for messed up replies. I can see formating on your last reply got caught out by them as well.

Anyways. Your claim about what they have seen of tactics is interesting. Cause as far as we know they HAVEN'T seen fleetscale tactics from any opposition before. As far as we have been led to believe, their plan of cutting off the head of galactic communication through the citadel was succesfull each and every time. They always thought with whatever fleets happened to be stranded in single systems, as opposed to the combined fleet of the entire galaxy.
That's quite a difference, especially as we are also talking about an enemy that KNOWS about them now, as opposed to them popping out of the dark with no warning on each and every system like they did when things went according to their 'master plan'.

Galaxy has been divided before and races trying to best others. So sections have had defensive fleets of various sizes in the past.

SalsaDMA wrote...
Oh.. And FTL work through relays, yes. But the citadel controls the relays, it's not the reapers doing so innately. That's why the citadel was important for them to control when following their masterplan.

I mean communications! Reapers have far more knowledge how mass relays work, they created them. They are likely to be able to eavesdrop every command that goes through mass relays. Fleets needs orders and if Reapers are aware of those orders how do you surprise them.
BTW: I made scenario on ME2 forums where fleet could make a surpise attack. The thing that made it work in my scenario was GEC.

SalsaDMA wrote...
As for Jokers comment, you have no context to put that in. All that comment tells us is that Sovy is maneuverable. For all you know, Joker could be asuming a comparison with alliance ships of a comparable size, which wouldn't be an unheard of asumption. He doesn't specify a shipclass, but is making use of a vague term, so you cannot know if he is giving scientific data, or just making an outburst. To be honest, it sounds more like the latter to me than the former. So I'll refuse to take that comment as 'proof' of sovereign being more maneuverable than, say, the normandy.

I agree to disagree. Joker is the best pilot in galaxy and context was clear, he saw what kind of manouers Sovereign did and commented that. Also, frigates are according to Codex most agilent ships in the navy. IMO, the context is clear. Go and play the sequence.

SalsaDMA wrote...
And your imagination of how a battle would go automatically asumes a battleplan that is against doctrines and tactics that should be used. Good work chap. You totally ignored what people here are saying as far as tactics goes. Why bother chiming in on that area when you are going to ignore sound tactical propositions given in the thread anyway?

This far I have been able to put numbers in this thread and these other tactics propositions seems to rely on huge "IF" factor. You seems to cherry pick things from to support your own theory and ignore evidence that contradicts it. Pot, meet kettle, except I'm actually trying to see both sides.

Say retrofitting Quarian flotilla with better weapons, shields, etc. Resources to do that come from where? In modern armies something as simple as getting new model of fire arm to every soldier can take a decade and that's how it goes in the best funded and maintained army in the world, US army. But never mind, let's just upgrade all remaining ships ships from galactic fleet and Quarian flotilla with Thanix cannon, better barriers and more effecient ME core in acouple of months...
There are just too many "it just works" magical aspects in these scenarios me and many other posters has tried to point out, to get really anywhere.

[SalsaDMA]

You are not making any more convincing arguments by repeating yourself and making baseless assumptions again.

At this point we're left by agreeing to disagree.

[PhantomSpectre]

I just want to see how Shep, and all the races he/she had managed to gather, are going to win the fight against Reapers. And now matter what, it should not be easy fight or even look easy for the galactic forces. Even if you win the war, there should still be heavy casualties or it would really not be realistic. And it wouldn't be really "war" like BW had said that the ME3 is going to be. There are always heavy casualties in war, even in winners side.

It would be actually ridiculous if Turian Armada and Migrant fleet alone would be enough to defeated Reapers.

[sympathy4saren]

The combined forces of all the races would be annihilated by the Reapers.

The Reapers cannot be destroyed with force. Because they are way, way more powerful.

[ZLurps]

SalsaDMA wrote...

You are not making any more convincing arguments by repeating yourself and making baseless assumptions again.

At this point we're left by agreeing to disagree.

Well, it would help if you explained how do you resolve resource and manufacturing issues how fleet can communicate with each others without Reapers knowing it.

Also, others has pointed examples from WW2 where quality has meant much more than strenght in numbers. There are limist of course and King Tiger example is very good, even Germans had superior tank compared to Shermans, they lost because Allied could out produce Axis. In ME3 I don't see how galactic races can outproduce the Reapers before the Earth is reaped.

[fett51]

Dexi wrote...

Launching at FTL means launching at Faster Than Light, means more or less insta hit....

Again, people are imagining a scenario in which the Reapers are in formation and they see a bunch of ships activating their FTL drive... FALSE.

If you're going to launch a ship at another ship, do it as a surprise assault... This way they won't know what hit them until it's too late....

It's instahit once the ship engages its drive core, but the ship's computer needs a moment to calculate a firing solution and aim the ship at the Reaper.  The ship itself needs enough distance to accelerate sufficiently to cause massive damage (meaning the ship cannot be at point blank range), but it also needs to be close enough to calculate a firing solution without light lag (which would mean the Reaper would see it).  So the Reaper does have time to FTL out (since EDI can FTL the normandy in about a second, a Reaper should be as fast or faster). 

SalsaDMA wrote...

Let's keep an eye out on ships we actually see Sovy kill. Cause it certainly seems like the geth ships are pouring out molten death alot more than we see sovy fire his mean weapons...
1:47 - first kill by ramming a Turian cruiser
Citadel arms close and rest of battle with the geth fleet take place while Sovy isn't even there.
Citadel arms open again and sovy takes notice of the fleet that is shooting at him.
5:15 - Second kill, by using a beamweapon on an alliance cruiser.
5:21 - 3rd kill, by beamweapon, looks like an alliance cruiser again.
5:22 - 4th kill, by beamweapon, looks like an alliance cruiser again.
5:24 - 5th kill, if it can be called that, cause it looks really unclear on the video. More than anything, it looks like the ship rammed into at sovy slow speed. Thinks it is a frigate, but can't see it proper.

Found it in HD here: 

I see a beam hitting that fifth ship (which is definitely a cruiser), but AFTER it starts exploding (2:22).  Probably an animation error.  So it took out four alliance cruisers in about 10 seconds.  We hear in ME2 that eight cruisers were lost, and we saw three be destroyed by the Geth.  So from what we saw Sovereign probably killed 5 human cruisers (unless you're renegade in which case it killed all 8 ). 

[TornadoADV]

ZLurps wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

You are not making any more convincing arguments by repeating yourself and making baseless assumptions again.

At this point we're left by agreeing to disagree.

Well, it would help if you explained how do you resolve resource and manufacturing issues how fleet can communicate with each others without Reapers knowing it.

Also, others has pointed examples from WW2 where quality has meant much more than strenght in numbers. There are limist of course and King Tiger example is very good, even Germans had superior tank compared to Shermans, they lost because Allied could out produce Axis. In ME3 I don't see how galactic races can outproduce the Reapers before the Earth is reaped.

Everytime people say the Sherman was an inferior tank or compare it to a tank above it's weight class, it makes me laugh inside.

[Robodragon]

there is one possiblilty on how they can defet the reapers but i hope its not cause it would just seem way to anticlimatic to me. They could sabotoge the mass relays and make them like the Omega 4 relay so when the reapers enter one they instead go to the center of the galaxy and right into a group of black holes.

Personally I would want something more climatic at least involving one last battle with large numbers on each side so we could see how the army you gathered helps each other out.

[redbaron76]

Reapers are machines and computers, so shpeard can use a computer virus to bring down the reper shields and the turian, asari adn human fleet can then destroy them. And also reapers are vurnerable when landing on planet since their shields are weakened by atmosphere reentry.

[Destr1er]

For those of you talking about retro-fitting Quarian and other non-combat vessels there is one small problem.
Most races, including the Council don't believe in the Reapers. They don't believe an attack is imminent.
They will not have the resources or the time to do any retrofitting when the attack begins because it will be a surprise attack on multiple fronts.

Our salvation lies in either the Geth, or Liara using her resources as Shadow Broker to gather Prothean artifacts and technology and possibly unlocking the secrets of the Prothean beacons that Shepard has encountered.

Quarians, even with their advanced engineering abilities and AI wizardry will not be of much use during a surprise attack. Most of their flotilla will likely be wiped out, along with most of their race.

Rachni will probably only be of use in planetary combat. I doubt that in the handful of years since they were re-introduced into the galaxy that they have had the time to become a serious player on a large scale.

Krogan will be meatshields/shocktroopers again like during the Rachni wars. And if they win, may earn a reprieve from the Genophage.

Not only are the Reapers more numerous, they are better at everything. Look how much of an edge EDI gave the Normandy.
Now think about an armada of super-EDIs housed in the most advanced warships in the known universe.

[SkittlesKat96]

I'm gonna repeat this again that there are Dreadnoughts and massive fleets that can combat the Reapers.

The Citadel when Sovereign was attacked was unprepared (most of the Citadel fleet gone) and the Dreadnought was unprepared, plus there were many powerful overwhelming numbered Geth ships too...

I'm not saying that the Reapers aren't still powerful (they are) and it will be tough and there will be lots of casualties, but its not as hopeless as some people assume

Oh yeah...and Javelins

[SalsaDMA]

Just watched the video with Big Ben sniper again.
He actually states in that video that all of their forces are on the run, regrouping somewhere.

So at least the video leads us to believe that Alliance are following their own doctrine and thus shouldn't be discounted as a force in the fight when you fly in with the collected fleets.

[Dexi]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Not gonna keep up chopping quotes, as it make for messed up replies. I can see formating on your last reply got caught out by them as well.

Anyways. Your claim about what they have seen of tactics is interesting. Cause as far as we know they HAVEN'T seen fleetscale tactics from any opposition before. As far as we have been led to believe, their plan of cutting off the head of galactic communication through the citadel was succesfull each and every time. They always thought with whatever fleets happened to be stranded in single systems, as opposed to the combined fleet of the entire galaxy.
That's quite a difference, especially as we are also talking about an enemy that KNOWS about them now, as opposed to them popping out of the dark with no warning on each and every system like they did when things went according to their 'master plan'.

Oh.. And FTL work through relays, yes. But the citadel controls the relays, it's not the reapers doing so innately. That's why the citadel was important for them to control when following their masterplan.

As for Jokers comment, you have no context to put that in. All that comment tells us is that Sovy is maneuverable. For all you know, Joker could be asuming a comparison with alliance ships of a comparable size, which wouldn't be an unheard of asumption. He doesn't specify a shipclass, but is making use of a vague term, so you cannot know if he is giving scientific data, or just making an outburst. To be honest, it sounds more like the latter to me than the former. So I'll refuse to take that comment as 'proof' of sovereign being more maneuverable than, say, the normandy.

And your imagination of how a battle would go automatically asumes a battleplan that is against doctrines and tactics that should be used. Good work chap. You totally ignored what people here are saying as far as tactics goes. Why bother chiming in on that area when you are going to ignore sound tactical propositions given in the thread anyway?

If I could, I'd quote every of your post and "I like this human, he understands!" it.


I was banned 24 hours and I'm glad someone was there to hold my points.