241 réponses à ce sujet

[atheelogos]

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

Before you folks so easily dismiss the quarians, may I remind you that, according to the in-game description in ME2, they still have the largest fleet in the known galaxy? They wouldn't be such easy pushovers.

Ships that are falling apart.... I doubt they can do anything to the Reapers.

[Labrev]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

rft wrote...

With every single allied fleet in Mass Effect combined (Alliance fleet, Turian "armada", Migrant Fleet, etc) I'd say that they would only be able to take down a couple reapers. That is unless the allied races find a weakness to the reapers or shepard finds a way to disable them.

Humans - EARTH!
Krogans - FIRE!
Quarians - WIND!
Asari - WATER!
Turians - HEART!

GOOOOOO PLANET!

THE POWER IS YOURS!

[robarcool]

Well, killing Sovereign, a single reaper costed 20 turian cruisers and 8 alliance cruisers. Also, Sovereign was destroyed only because his shields were down because he didn't let go control of Saren. So, if the reapers are even within a thousand, which I doubt, attacking them directly will simply lead to total annihilation of any force, be it Turian, Quarian or human. That is why, we have been hearing that somehow, Shepard will discover a way to defeat reapers in Mass Effect 3. I don't think that this solution will be as stupid as attacking the reapers directly.

[omgodzilla]

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

omgodzilla wrote...

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

Sidney wrote...

wilhelm Screamer wrote...

We have never seen a dreadnought in action, I imagine they could make any reaper's day into a very bad one.

We saw Destiny Ascension which is a Dreadnought and it didn't fare so well.

Destiny Ascenscion was top priority target for Geth Ships while Sovereign focused on cruisers and avoided DA.

At the end of Arrival, Hackett says "It took multiple fleets AND the Destiny Ascension to take Sovereign down and that was only one Reaper".

Please, what Hackett says is innacurate, because you can't see destiny ascencion fighting Sovereign in ME1 (or supporting human fleet).

We didn't even see the entire battle. How do we know that the DA didn't just attack soveriegn along with the fleet while we were fighting saren? It could've gotten hit and then decided to retreat or something. Hackett was at the battle. If he says it happened then it happened.

[KainrycKarr]

Are...are you kidding me?

[Han Shot First]

Before you folks so easily dismiss the quarians, may I remind you that, according to the in-game description in ME2, they still have the largest fleet in the known galaxy? They wouldn't be such easy pushovers.

The Iraqi Army that got completely routed during Operation Desert Storm was the 4th largest in the world at the time, and larger than the United States Army.

That mattered little because the Coalition forces had such a massive qualitative edge over them.

The Quarians would essentially be the Iraqis. They've got a very large fleet but it's mostly obsolete and of dubious combat effeciency. Any of the fleets of of the big 3 (Turians, Salarians, Asari) could probably crush the Quarians single handed.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 25 juin 2011 - 06:34 .

[atheelogos]

robarcool wrote...
attacking them directly will simply lead to total annihilation of any force, be it Turian, Quarian or human.

This. They've already taken down the Alliance Navy with little effort. I doubt the Turians and Quarians can do anything to hurt them directly.

[WidowMaker9394]

Millions of years of experience in warfare plus a giant fleet of grossly overpowered sentient juggernauts versus a bunch of rusty pieces of metal attached to engines, filled with millions of civilians backed by another fleet that, while powerful, lacks the numbers and experience to even compare to the Reapers.

I dunno.

Modifié par WidowMaker9394, 25 juin 2011 - 12:35 .

[nhsk]

atheelogos wrote...
This. They've already taken down the Alliance Navy with little effort. I doubt the Turians and Quarians can do anything to hurt them directly.

To be fair, we don't know yet whether the alliance navy is truly down or just retreated to FTL as codex entries, at least from ME1, state that most ships generate a lot of heat when firing their main guns. Heat they can't dissipate in battle. In particular battles in close proximity to planets (and therefore stars) tends to last a very short time before it is a necessity to retreat or literally cook your crew, while battles in outer space, where it is colder may last for up to two hours.

It would also be reasonable to assume that the Reapers, being machines and all, doesn't have to worry about that.

Yes they will probably have taken some medium losses but a complete annihilation is unlikely.

Modifié par nhsk, 25 juin 2011 - 12:59 .

[Nerevar-as]

robarcool wrote...

Well, killing Sovereign, a single reaper costed 20 turian cruisers and 8 alliance cruisers. Also, Sovereign was destroyed only because his shields were down because he didn't let go control of Saren. So, if the reapers are even within a thousand, which I doubt, attacking them directly will simply lead to total annihilation of any force, be it Turian, Quarian or human. That is why, we have been hearing that somehow, Shepard will discover a way to defeat reapers in Mass Effect 3. I don't think that this solution will be as stupid as attacking the reapers directly.

I think that was the battle outside the Citadel and saving the DA, not killing Sovie. Who seemed to be winning alone, against a whole fleet, despite being unable to move. If we add that it´s also said (Virmire) it can also manouver in ways that woul break apart a normal ship, then a normal battle against a fully functional Reaper would probably take several fleets combined. It´s a good thing they are arrogant enough to divide and attack different planets, I don´t think there´s any way to take them as a whole.

[Dannyboy9876]

Nope, we are all doomed.

[jamesp81]

Sidney wrote...

wilhelm Screamer wrote...

We have never seen a dreadnought in action, I imagine they could make any reaper's day into a very bad one.

We saw Destiny Ascension which is a Dreadnought and it didn't fare so well.

It never employed its weapons though.  It just played taxi for the idiot council.

[jamesp81]

TheMakoMaster wrote...

what about the alliance carrier(s? Carriers do not fall under the ship arms control treaties so the alliance could have conceivably created a fleet of them by ME3. maybe a wave of smaller fighters can pick away at a reaper.

I've always thought this was a better strategic choice against a Reaper.  They seem to be able to destroy anything they can engage, so rather than futilely try to armor cruisers and very expensive dreadnoughts against them, use ships that are inexpensive and easily replaced.

I'd rely on carriers / fighters and lots of frigates.  Hopefully these ships will be nimble enough to stay out of a Reaper weapon's firing arc most of the time.  I'd refit all my cruisers with long range missile weapons as well, and time fighter and frigate attack runs to arrive at the same time as salvoes of missiles, forcing Reaper defenses to choose between engaging fighters and shooting down missiles.  Missile armed cruisers would also be a prime choice for nuking it from orbit if we catch a Reaper on the ground.

We know that the Alliance fleet orbiting earth gets facestomped in the opening phases of the Reaper invasion.  They might even do a 'pearl harbor' thing and have several of the Alliance's dreadnoughts get destroyed there, but the carriers were all away from Earth at the time.

Modifié par jamesp81, 25 juin 2011 - 01:51 .

[eternalnightmare13]

Size doesn't equal strenght. If you talk to Tali in ME1 I believe she talks about how they're keeping their ships together with spare parts and spit and polish.  They keep using salvage to keep their fleet going.  

Depending on how you ended ME1 in ME2 there's reference to the turians amassing more ships for their fleet.  I think it happens when you let the original Council die.

The Alliance and Turian fleets would be the best choice.

[jamesp81]

Khayness wrote...

nhsk wrote...

So you say we fire disruptor torpedoes up their exhaust shaft after we got under their close range defense guns?

Where have I heard that one before?

Well, seeing how Sovereign tentacle lazorcannons worked, it would be adviseable to zergrush the Reapers with highly mobile ships, but ME2 introduced the Oculus, so I guess there are Reapers with similar tactical roles of a fighter/cruiser/frigate/etc., so the battles should be interesting.

We need a Mass Effect spacesim spinoff dammit.

One possible solution is to cram as many point defense lasers into your frigates as possible.  Fighter attacks would be accompanied by these frigates, whose sole job would be to burn a path through any Oculus type enemies.

It would require some pretty damned good coordination, but it would work.

[jamesp81]

Sidney wrote...

Khayness wrote...

Dreadnoughts are designed for long range combat, if you've played spacesims you know you can screw a huge battleship if you rush it close and kill it with small ships.

Basically they caught the Destiny Ascension with its pants down.

I've played enough naval sims to know that they fight at range but a smaller ship in close vs a battleship is llke throwing rocks off it's armor unless you've got something like a torpedo to even the odds and we know of/saw nothing like that in ME1.

Frigates are frequently armed with Disruptor Torpedoes in Mass Effect, which are capable of defeating even dreadnought shields.  They're only effective at short range, however.

[atheelogos]

nhsk wrote...

atheelogos wrote...
This. They've already taken down the Alliance Navy with little effort. I doubt the Turians and Quarians can do anything to hurt them directly.

To be fair, we don't know yet whether the alliance navy is truly down or just retreated to FTL as codex entries, at least from ME1, state that most ships generate a lot of heat when firing their main guns. Heat they can't dissipate in battle. In particular battles in close proximity to planets (and therefore stars) tends to last a very short time before it is a necessity to retreat or literally cook your crew, while battles in outer space, where it is colder may last for up to two hours.

It would also be reasonable to assume that the Reapers, being machines and all, doesn't have to worry about that.

Yes they will probably have taken some medium losses but a complete annihilation is unlikely.

"tends to last a very short time" It will last for a short time seeing as Reapers can destroy our ships with one shot.

[Ianamus]

The Quarian/Geth conflict will apparently be one of the earlier missions. This means that if we can get the Quarians and Geth to team up then they will not only be able to get all of the Quarian civillians to safety, but will have the rest of the game to prepare the Migrant Fleet and Geth fleet for war. The Geth fleet we saw in ME1 was just 5% of the Geth population, and who knows what ships or technology the Quarians might have left on their homeworld.

When the time comes to retake Earth the Migrant/Geth combined fleet could be the most powerful force on your side. Combine that with the Turian, Asari and Salarian fleets and the Rachni and the chances of winning don't look so slim afterall.

Modifié par EJ107, 25 juin 2011 - 03:08 .

[atheelogos]

EJ107 wrote...
 and who knows what ships or technology the Quarians might have left on their homeworld.

You don't think the Geth left that kind of stuff laying around after the war do you?

When the time comes to retake Earth the Migrant/Geth combined fleet could be the most powerful force on your side. Combine that with the Turian, Asari and Salarian fleets and the Rachni and the chances of winning don't look so slim afterall.

The Turian, Asari, and Salarians already got their azzes handed to them by one Reaper when they tried to protect the Citadel. Can't say having the Migrant/Geth fleets will help us. We can't win with brute force. There must be another way.

[VegasVance]

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

Before you folks so easily dismiss the quarians, may I remind you that, according to the in-game description in ME2, they still have the largest fleet in the known galaxy? They wouldn't be such easy pushovers.

And may I remind you of the fact that most of those ships are 300 years outdated, so that is like going to war against a Arleigh Burke class destroyer in a Sandwich class ship of the line. <_<

[jamesp81]

I am increasingly wondering if the attack on Earth will take on a "Pearl Harbor" type flavor.

Consider that carriers aren't considered by many to be serious warships. The US admiralty felt the same way before WW2.

Consider that the Alliance apparently parked a large fleet in orbit of Earth. Just like the US parked the bulk of its fleet in Pearl Harbor.

Consider that the Alliance, as of ME3, has 8 dreadnoughts. Just as the US had 8 battleships parked in Pearl Harbor on Dec 7 1941. The Earth fleet gets decimated in the opening Reaper attack, just as the US fleet was mostly destroyed by the Japanese surprise attack. It's possible the Alliance's carriers are not at Earth and survive the opening attack, just as US carriers were not present for Pearl Harbor at the outset of WW2.

[Ianamus]

atheelogos wrote...

You don't think the Geth left that kind of stuff laying around after the war do you?

Legion said that they left the Quarian homeworld mostly untoutched, So it's a possibility.

atheelogos wrote...

The Turian, Asari, and Salarians already got their azzes handed to them by one Reaper when they tried to protect the Citadel. Can't say having the Migrant/Geth fleets will help us.

The Citadel fleet did, but it was caught by surprise, and I'd imagine that the majority of the Asari, Salarian and Turian fleets were protecting their respective homeworlds and colonies, not the Citadel.

atheelogos wrote...

We can't win with brute force. There must be another way.

Maybe, but I don't want a deus ex machina that pops out of nowhere and solves everything. That would ruin the ending for me. If they come up with a well written and foreshadowed solution (dark matter?) that would be fine.

VegasVance wrote...

And may I remind you of the fact that most of those ships are 300 years outdated, so that is like going to war against a Arleigh Burke class destroyer in a Sandwich class ship of the line. <_<

The reason the fleet's falling apart is because they don't have the resources to maintain it. Once they retake their homeworld and potentially ally with the Geth that won't be a problem anymore. Imagine 17 million Quarians and the Geth all repairing and refitting the fleet for the final battle.

Modifié par EJ107, 25 juin 2011 - 03:47 .

[VegasVance]

jamesp81 wrote...

I am increasingly wondering if the attack on Earth will take on a "Pearl Harbor" type flavor.

Consider that carriers aren't considered by many to be serious warships. The US admiralty felt the same way before WW2.

Consider that the Alliance apparently parked a large fleet in orbit of Earth. Just like the US parked the bulk of its fleet in Pearl Harbor.

Consider that the Alliance, as of ME3, has 8 dreadnoughts. Just as the US had 8 battleships parked in Pearl Harbor on Dec 7 1941. The Earth fleet gets decimated in the opening Reaper attack, just as the US fleet was mostly destroyed by the Japanese surprise attack. It's possible the Alliance's carriers are not at Earth and survive the opening attack, just as US carriers were not present for Pearl Harbor at the outset of WW2.

^This, plus the "Sleeping Giant" reference to the Alliance in ME1

Also even "if" the Quarians and Geth get along, the war is already here, and that isn't when you want to start building your fleets.

Modifié par VegasVance, 25 juin 2011 - 03:50 .

[atheelogos]

EJ107 wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

You don't think the Geth left that kind of stuff laying around after the war do you?

Legion said that they left the Quarian homeworld mostly untoutched, So it's a possibility.

atheelogos wrote...

The Turian, Asari, and Salarians already got their azzes handed to them by one Reaper when they tried to protect the Citadel. Can't say having the Migrant/Geth fleets will help us.

The Citadel fleet did, but it was caught by surprise, and I'd imagine that the majority of the Asari, Salarian and Turian fleets were protecting their respective homeworlds and colonies, not the Citadel.

atheelogos wrote...

We can't win with brute force. There must be another way.

Maybe, but I don't want a deus ex machina that pops out of nowhere and solves everything. That would ruin the ending for me. If they come up with a well written and foreshadowed solution (dark matter?) that would be fine.

VegasVance wrote...

And may I remind you of the fact that most of those ships are 300 years outdated, so that is like going to war against a Arleigh Burke class destroyer in a Sandwich class ship of the line. <_<

The reason the fleet's falling apart is because they don't have the resources to maintain it. Once they retake their homeworld and potentially ally with the Geth that won't be a problem anymore. Imagine 17 million Quarians and the Geth all repairing and refitting the fleet for the final battle.

"Legion said that they left the Quarian homeworld mostly untoutched, So it's a possibility." I'm pretty sure he said they cleaned it up. Dude come on if you defeated your enemy would you really leave their most power weapons laying around on the floor?

"The Citadel fleet did, but it was caught by surprise, and I'd imagine
that the majority of the Asari, Salarian and Turian fleets were
protecting their respective homeworlds and colonies, not the Citadel." Doesn't really matter. Hundreds of Reapers cannot be defeated by any conventional means. We'll have to think outside the box on this one.

" Imagine 17 million Quarians and the Geth all repairing and refitting the fleet for the final battle." If they had time to do that, which they don't. The war has already started man.

"The reason the fleet's falling apart is because they don't have the resources to maintain it." Doesn't really matter. They're still old ships that are outdated. What they need is new ships not a refit.
Hell just watch the E3 gameplay. They hit one of the smaller Reapers and it just got back up. If they can't take out one Reaper in one shot then we are in trouble if we're going to rely on the Quarians when it comes to fighting the larger Reapers.

Meanwhile the Reapers don't even have to shoot us. They can just fly right through our ships...

Modifié par atheelogos, 25 juin 2011 - 04:45 .

[Nerevar-as]

EJ107 wrote...

The Quarian/Geth conflict will apparently be one of the earlier missions. This means that if we can get the Quarians and Geth to team up then they will not only be able to get all of the Quarian civillians to safety, but will have the rest of the game to prepare the Migrant Fleet and Geth fleet for war. The Geth fleet we saw in ME1 was just 5% of the Geth population, and who knows what ships or technology the Quarians might have left on their homeworld.

When the time comes to retake Earth the Migrant/Geth combined fleet could be the most powerful force on your side. Combine that with the Turian, Asari and Salarian fleets and the Rachni and the chances of winning don't look so slim afterall.

On the other side, if Legion was given to Cerberus or his LM left undone, we should expect the whole Geth race to team up with the Reapers. So the situation can get even worse for some people.