241 réponses à ce sujet

[ZLurps]

Dexi wrote...

No doubt the Geth will play a big role...
But its something we saw coming, it's not a Deus Ex.

And you're putting it very wrong with: "The Citadel races simply aren't even nearly powerful even with Thanix technology and using combined fleets."
Don't assume that battles should be carried face-to-face...

If there'd be a bright enough tactician in front of the combined forces ( ALL forces, including Geth, Krogan, Omega forces, Rachni, and the usual Salarian, Turian, Asari, Human) using all resources in a smart way ( Volus for trade and cash, Hanar and Elcor for support, resources - Elcor have no big trade because their economy is very well planned and they have everything they need - and industry), and importing the right tactics ( no full-front assault), then the war can be waged against the Reapers.


And this is what will happen in ME3. A deus ex machina might occur but it all resume to "we fight or we die".

Uh, someone must take the fight up close and personal and like, you know destroy those Reapers. Or it would kind of be sad for humans... "After 100 years of research Salarian 4th generation scientist team finally made the break through.. Saddly human race was already extinct from the galaxy."

No, I don't think we are going to get ending like this.

[Dexi]

You know anything about military tactics?

[Ianamus]

People are making the mistake of assuming that all reapers are of similar size and strength to Soverein. For all we know he was the largest and most powerful, and from what we've seen of ME3 the majority are much smaller.

Just look at the one from a recent Gameplay demo:



It looks bigger without Shep in the picture for comparison, but still much smaller than Sovereign.

[Nashiktal]

EJ107 wrote...

People are making the mistake of assuming that all reapers are of similar size and strength to Soverein. For all we know he was the largest and most powerful, and from what we've seen of ME3 the majority are much smaller.

Just look at the one from a recent Gameplay demo:



It looks bigger without Shep in the picture for comparison, but still much smaller than Sovereign.

Indeed, however we know their are at least about 200 reapers of similar size and make to Harbinger and Sovvy. So still a very formiddable force, considering one reaper can decimate a fleet.

[Dexi]

Nashiktal wrote...
 So still a very formiddable force, considering one reaper can decimate a fleet.

Where? 

[ZLurps]

Dexi wrote...

You know anything about military tactics?

Maybe a little bit, but enlighten me.

[Dexi]

ZLurps wrote...

Dexi wrote...

You know anything about military tactics?

Maybe a little bit, but enlighten me.

Well then I'm done arguing with you...

If you want to be enlighten, for starters, you could re-read what I wrote until now and take it with more consideration 


EDIT: Ok, just to put this up here: you don't have to go up-close and personal to destroy an invading force. 
If have inferior numbers and equipment it's actually a stupid thing to do. You'll die. 

You organize suprise attacks, pick up on individual Reapers, use overwhelm tactics... 

A carrier and a 4-5 cruissers can take on a Reaper. They might win, they might loose. 
Odds are they'll win, for a carrier can carry ( lol ) many many fighters and some frigates. They are small and hard to hit, also, their arsenal is made for attacking large targets and crippling them ( if they are equipped with Thanix technology, their attacks bypass shielding). The cruissers are there to take the hit. 

Not saying it would be a clear victory, not saying any of those cruissers will survive the fight, but chances are that the overwhelm will end up with the Reaper dead. And that's the point. 

I never said that it wouldn't be bloody. Chances are maybe more than 80% of the military forces/galactic population will die in the war, but 80% is better than 100%. 

Modifié par Dexi, 26 juin 2011 - 08:08 .

[fett51]

Well, to employ my freakish memory for codex entries, we know from the ME2 codex on dreadnoughts the Turians have 39, the Asari 20, the Salarians 16, and Humanity 8. That's 83 in total.

We know from the Charoum planet info that there are at least 5,000 ships in the Geth fleet, and of course the Quarians have 50,000 ships in various states of repair and combat readiness.

We saw hundreds of dreadnought class Reapers at the end of ME2, and we all saw Sovereign tearing through Turian and Human cruisers like they were nothing in ME1. In a straight up fight, just mathematically, I don't think the Milky Way stands a chance. The only way I could see winning without some new advantage is to detonate the mass relay of any system the Reapers invade heavily.

[Dexi]

fett51 wrote...

Well, to employ my freakish memory for codex entries, we know from the ME2 codex on dreadnoughts the Turians have 39, the Asari 20, the Salarians 16, and Humanity 8. That's 83 in total.

We know from the Charoum planet info that there are at least 5,000 ships in the Geth fleet, and of course the Quarians have 50,000 ships in various states of repair and combat readiness.

We saw hundreds of dreadnought class Reapers at the end of ME2, and we all saw Sovereign tearing through Turian and Human cruisers like they were nothing in ME1. In a straight up fight, just mathematically, I don't think the Milky Way stands a chance. The only way I could see winning without some new advantage is to detonate the mass relay of any system the Reapers invade heavily.

Why the sadjsad you people do not understand that a battle between the Reapers and the Milky doesn't necessarily have to be a direct one?! 

If all fights in the history were decided by sheer numbers or tech then... well the world would've been a lot different.... 

Modifié par Dexi, 26 juin 2011 - 08:12 .

[WizenSlinky0]

We dont know what a Dreadnought can do on humanitys side in proper battle.

Aiming and firing a dreadnoughts cannon is near impossible at close range battle, from the codex. Basically the Destiny Ascension was crippled from the get go by not having access to its primary weaponry.

[Vanaer]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

rft wrote...

With every single allied fleet in Mass Effect combined (Alliance fleet, Turian "armada", Migrant Fleet, etc) I'd say that they would only be able to take down a couple reapers. That is unless the allied races find a weakness to the reapers or shepard finds a way to disable them.

Humans - EARTH!
Krogans - FIRE!
Quarians - WIND!
Asari - WATER!
Turians - HEART!

GOOOOOO PLANET!

THE POWER IS YOURS!

Thank you for posting... now that friggin' song is in my head again... took me twelve years to loose that Captain Planet tune.... NOOoooooooo!

[fett51]

Dexi wrote...

fett51 wrote...

Well, to employ my freakish memory for codex entries, we know from the ME2 codex on dreadnoughts the Turians have 39, the Asari 20, the Salarians 16, and Humanity 8. That's 83 in total.

We know from the Charoum planet info that there are at least 5,000 ships in the Geth fleet, and of course the Quarians have 50,000 ships in various states of repair and combat readiness.

We saw hundreds of dreadnought class Reapers at the end of ME2, and we all saw Sovereign tearing through Turian and Human cruisers like they were nothing in ME1. In a straight up fight, just mathematically, I don't think the Milky Way stands a chance. The only way I could see winning without some new advantage is to detonate the mass relay of any system the Reapers invade heavily.

Why the sadjsad you people do not understand that a battle between the Reapers and the Milky doesn't necessarily have to be a direct one?! 

If all fights in the history were decided by sheer numbers or tech then... well the world would've been a lot different.... 

Milky Way's odds in a straight fight are what I was evaluating.  That I suggested detonating relays as a possible strategy to even the odds should tell you I'm not bound to thinking this must be a ship to ship fight.  I do think it's pretty indisputable that if it did come down to a straight fight, the Council species would lose just as badly as all the other species that came before. 

WizenSlinky0  wrote...
We dont know what a Dreadnought can do on humanitys side in proper battle.

Aiming
and firing a dreadnoughts cannon is near impossible at close range
battle, from the codex. Basically the Destiny Ascension was crippled
from the get go by not having access to its primary weaponry.

We do know that  the derelict reaper needed a railgun big enough to scar Klendagon to take it out.  Incidentally, the same applied to Sovereign in the battle of the Citadel, we never saw it fire its main gun.  Still obliterated anything that got in its way until the Arcturus fleet showed up. 

[CaribbeanCLANK]

The Reapers seem to be a pretty tough opponent. And from what I know of the Mass Effect universe, I do not see much hope in defeating them....being realistic. They destroyed the Protheans and they were supposed to be a lot more advanced and intelligent than most racing in and around the known Mass Effect universe.

It's gonna take a miracle to win this war and I would be kinda of disappointed if Shepard and company managed to do so in ME3. Look at how difficult it was to take down just one Reaper in Mass Effect.

It will take atleast 2 Mass Effect games to defeat the Reapers....I hope.

Modifié par CaribbeanCLANK, 26 juin 2011 - 08:32 .

[ZLurps]

Dexi wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

Dexi wrote...

You know anything about military tactics?

Maybe a little bit, but enlighten me.

Well then I'm done arguing with you...

If you want to be enlighten, for starters, you could re-read what I wrote until now and take it with more consideration 

Well, according to Casey Hudson Elcor, Hanari etc. races don't really play a big role in ME3, even they did, there is still a problem that ogranic race is pretty damn difficult to out do machines when it comes to gathering resources, building forces etc.

It feels like you are totally forgetting that Reapers can move as freely around the galaxy via mass effect relays as Normandy and they do. Good luck shipping resources through ME relays, or inter systems shipping if there are Reapers around. Hell, building any bigger ship than a frigate (and perhaps frigates too) requires orbital dry dock and I don't think Reapers would leave those alone...
Races like Quarians and especially Geth that aren't dependable from any planet are likely to be in best position to survive and actually get something constructed, but other races are pretty much stuck in their own systems.

Then, time. I wrote about time earlier but I didn't meant that there is unlimited amount of time. For Reapers it took centuries to annihilate The Protheans, but then the whole known galaxy was colonised by Protheans, humans haven't spread anywhere that far in the galaxy. Also, especially the Earth, even Reapers are reaping humanity, not trying to just wipe them out and process is taking time, Earth can't stand against ever growing army of Reapers, Husks, Cannibals, etc horrors forever. More Reapers indoctrinate, faster reaping process is going to get.

Of course there might be some sort of discovery during ME3 that leads Shepard into Dark Space where Reapers hibernate and Reaper nanides seem to get their programming and find some sort  of "Turn Off Reapers" switch, but that would mean no fleet battles.

[ZLurps]

Dexi wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

Dexi wrote...

You know anything about military tactics?

Maybe a little bit, but enlighten me.

Well then I'm done arguing with you...

If you want to be enlighten, for starters, you could re-read what I wrote until now and take it with more consideration 


EDIT: Ok, just to put this up here: you don't have to go up-close and personal to destroy an invading force. 
If have inferior numbers and equipment it's actually a stupid thing to do. You'll die. 

You organize suprise attacks, pick up on individual Reapers, use overwhelm tactics... 

A carrier and a 4-5 cruissers can take on a Reaper. They might win, they might loose. 
Odds are they'll win, for a carrier can carry ( lol ) many many fighters and some frigates. They are small and hard to hit, also, their arsenal is made for attacking large targets and crippling them ( if they are equipped with Thanix technology, their attacks bypass shielding). The cruissers are there to take the hit. 

Not saying it would be a clear victory, not saying any of those cruissers will survive the fight, but chances are that the overwhelm will end up with the Reaper dead. And that's the point. 

I never said that it wouldn't be bloody. Chances are maybe more than 80% of the military forces/galactic population will die in the war, but 80% is better than 100%. 

ARGH! But ok, I'll bite.

That might work against exactly as you wrote, against single Reaper. The problem is that there are anything around few hundred to thousands. It would mean horrible losses as single Reaper can destroy 6 targets in aprox. one second. Even Thanix could be effective, it can be fired only once in 5 to 15 seconds.
Then what comes to fighter swarms, Reapers can simply FTL out... come back again from other angle and that's it. Heat is not a problem for them.

So even tactics like you present (I have made one such scenario myself) would work, it would be very unlikely that there are many possibilites to attack against single Reaper and even then, the process would be costly and too slow to take out hundreds of Reapers fast enought to save the Earth from reaping.

Modifié par ZLurps, 26 juin 2011 - 08:41 .

[FrozenShadow]

Dexi wrote...

I'm still thinking that this cycle the Galaxy has the best shot at it.

With a big enough force, importing the right tactics, harassing, dividing and conquering, avoiding direct combat, going kamikaze ( as last resort ), doing hit and run using every ship capable of flying and every ounce of determination, the Reapers can be beaten.
Nobody says a lot will be walking out alive. The losses will be huge.

But it's better than total termination. And it is doable!

Yeah, even total extinction or really heavy loses, possible even some races as whole. Nevertheless things won't be the same anymore, even if Reapers are defeated.

[Xeniphe]

Maybe the Mass Relays can be hacked, allowing us to fire large objects towards Reapers? Using their own technology against them!

[FrozenShadow]

ZLurps wrote...

I just hope it's going to be something more creative than virus, etc.

Or something like Shep and his/hers crew land on Harbinger or some other "Reaper base" and then destroy it on foot, like it was in ME and ME2. Basic, "kill the boss and you win" way. That would not be fun at all, though I fear it will come to that, again.

[AC5]

Xeniphe wrote...

Maybe the Mass Relays can be hacked, allowing us to fire large objects towards Reapers? Using their own technology against them!

Why not just use that FTL drive thats been around forever?

Modifié par AC5, 26 juin 2011 - 08:54 .

[ZLurps]

Newart wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

I just hope it's going to be something more creative than virus, etc.

Or something like Shep and his/hers crew land on Harbinger or some other "Reaper base" and then destroy it on foot, like it was in ME and ME2. Basic, "kill the boss and you win" way. That would not be fun at all, though I fear it will come to that, again.

I can't know but somehow I think that BioWare has something better than "Kill the Boss" on their mind. I think Thanix technology is going to be important. It just isn't enough (and there are one hell of logistical plothole if those were retrofitted in all battleships during couple of months there is between Arrival and ME3) but perhaps using the Dark Energy could be one possibility.

[FrozenShadow]

Dexi wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...
 So still a very formiddable force, considering one reaper can decimate a fleet.

Where? 

There are lot of them and they really looks pretty much the size of Sovereign and Harbinger.

Modifié par Newart, 26 juin 2011 - 09:13 .

[CaribbeanCLANK]

Unless there is some big surprise technology Shepard and company stumble across, I find it very hard to believe we are gonna wipe out the Reapers in just one Game....Mass Effect 3. Maybe we can save Earth from complete destruction...but these bad boys are the creators of the Mass Relays...I am sure they got a few deadly tricks up their sleeves.

I think it's gonna take a lot more than the Turian Armada and Migrant Fleet combined to put up a good fight against the Reapers.

[FrozenShadow]

ZLurps wrote...

Newart wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

I just hope it's going to be something more creative than virus, etc.

Or something like Shep and his/hers crew land on Harbinger or some other "Reaper base" and then destroy it on foot, like it was in ME and ME2. Basic, "kill the boss and you win" way. That would not be fun at all, though I fear it will come to that, again.

I can't know but somehow I think that BioWare has something better than "Kill the Boss" on their mind. I think Thanix technology is going to be important. It just isn't enough (and there are one hell of logistical plothole if those were retrofitted in all battleships during couple of months there is between Arrival and ME3) but perhaps using the Dark Energy could be one possibility.

Hmm, well that Dark Energy could be really interesting.

They could just lead Reapers army in some galaxy and then use that DE to explode the sun. They would destroy teh galaxy, but I doubt even Reaper could really survive about that, at least not all of them. Then the surviving ones are lot easier to destroy.

[NICKjnp]

The Migrant fleet isn't all that threatening. A reaper fleet is like a fleet of tanks while the migrant fleet is like a fleet of delivery trucks. Who do you think will win?

[fett51]

Dexi wrote...
You organize suprise attacks, pick up on individual Reapers, use overwhelm tactics...

A carrier and a 4-5 cruissers can take on a Reaper. They might win, they might loose.
Odds are they'll win, for a carrier can carry ( lol ) many many fighters and some frigates. They are small and hard to hit, also, their arsenal is made for attacking large targets and crippling them ( if they are equipped with Thanix technology, their attacks bypass shielding). The cruissers are there to take the hit.

Couple issues with carriers: Per the codex carriers are the size of dreadnaughts (meaning there probably aren't many) and they're extremely fragile.  The codex had Sovereign's main gun taking down dreadnaught barriers in one hit, and we saw what its thanixes did to the Alliance Cruisers.  I wouldn't put good odds on a carrier surviving an engagement with a Reaper unless it's behind a lot more ships than that.  The mass fighter part may work, we don't know how good Reaper GARDIAN systems are, or if they have interceptors (Oculus seemed geared to engage larger targets).  How to deploy the fighters would be a pretty big issue though.