169 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I don't care if characters come back from the dead, so long as the explanation for their return satisfies me. It's a fantasy RPG, for crying out loud...in most of these sorts of games Resurrection exists as a *spell*. Magic and Fade Spirits and the mystical religious explanations I can accept (to a point...if it happens to everyone and his pet mabari I will give the screen a stern look).

Saying 'He was only unconscious', when you're talking to a Warden who practically kills things for a living, that I don't like. That excuse is convenient, not good.

So yeah. Make it mystical, magical or logical. Or don't let us get them killed in the first place.

Same as don't let us reject quests if you're going to make us do them anyway.

[Tirfan]

^ I don't like magical resurrections, I don't even like that there is a resurrect-spell, even in Wynnes case she wasn't completely dead before the spirit saved her, which was good enough for me, Leliana getting killed was an illusion I think I could accept to some degree - just because of Magical Healing Cavern would make me /facepalm. And religious explanations - I prefer if the existence of actual gods in any setting is ambiguous, so if Lel was actually the Makers chosen, I would abandon ship. While I personally can't see any good reason or explanation for her resurrection, there is still perhpas some hope that the writers could come up with something that would satisfy even me?

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Tirfan wrote...

^ I don't like magical resurrections, I don't even like that there is a resurrect-spell, even in Wynnes case she wasn't completely dead before the spirit saved her, which was good enough for me, Leliana getting killed was an illusion I think I could accept to some degree - just because of Magical Healing Cavern would make me /facepalm. And religious explanations - I prefer if the existence of actual gods in any setting is ambiguous, so if Lel was actually the Makers chosen, I would abandon ship. While I personally can't see any good reason or explanation for her resurrection, there is still perhpas some hope that the writers could come up with something that would satisfy even me?

Well, if you rule out magic, the abundance of lyrium in the cave, divine intervention, spirits, demons, and the good old 'She was only mostly dead', what would satisfy you as a reasonable excuse for bringing Leliana back short of necromancy?

[Tirfan]

I said it, I can't come up with anything - the "obvious" explanation (magical healing cavern) is so boring and I would think, lazy explanation that it makes me cry a little on the inside, even if it would make the most sense. I wouldn't mind spirits or demons, altough, could they help Leliana who isn't a mage, or would she even accept their help?

One thing I thought about was that Leliana getting killed would just be an illusion made by the guardian, but then, you kill him too, so it does not exactly work.. Perhaps an illusion kept up by some other-unseen-spirit of Faith, Lel using feign Death (even if she doesn't have that ability) could be one explanation.. but still I wouldn't call it exactly a satisfying one. I'm just hard to please perhaps - I want something original, surprising and I want it to make sense.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Original and surprising I would consider a bonus. Let's say I happily settle for 'makes sense' and 'isn't a huge cop-out'. Something completely new and unexpected might run the risk of being a convenient plot device that's been introduced purely for resurrection purposes, whereas I tend to think the sensible answer is the best way to go even if it's boring (magic lyrium cave) because needless Special Circumstances are needless.

I like twists that make sense in hindsight, not stuff that's introduced out of the blue for pure coolness factor. But I know that not everyone likes the same thing as me.

[Tirfan]

Well, I'll give you that, twists that make sense in hindsight can work really well sometimes, if they are pulled off as magnificently as Lucifer quitting Hell and giving the key to it to Morpheus in Neil Gaimans The Sandman.. I just don't have enough confidence in the Bioware writing-team to do Lelianas resurrection as well as that one, perhaps that comic raised the bar for good plot-twists too high for me.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Considering the number of games where she is killed and requires a resurrection will probably be quite small, I have my doubts a magnificent well-thought explanation will be forthcoming. Not enough people will notice it, or care, so why put the effort in?

[Tirfan]

And that makes me a sad panda, but at least I have an excuse to go play Origins again to make a playtrough where I don't kill her for importing purposes (and then I would have to play DA2 again, but I'll conveniently forget that part)

[TEWR]

It's simple. Leliana killed the Angel of Death and came back to life.


You'll find.... Death can dance

[Kyda]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Sure, and when I decapitate Ser Cauthrien after rescuing Anora, she falls down like every other decapitation victim, I get captured, and I see her again at the Landsmeet, she's still dead despite me being able to fight her again.

Except.... she wasn't dead. Because death animations are not canon. Just because a person fell to the ground doesn't mean it's canon. Confirmation of death is canon.

and yes, you can indeed decapitate Cauthrien after rescuing Anora, and she'll fall to the ground.

I believe that´s actually a bug...

[und3rgr0und]

I didn't kill any members of my party from Origins, I guess I'm just a merciful champion/commander, haha. Why pay for a golem in your party, Shale, and then kill her? Makes no sense to me.

[TEWR]

Kyda wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Sure, and when I decapitate Ser Cauthrien after rescuing Anora, she falls down like every other decapitation victim, I get captured, and I see her again at the Landsmeet, she's still dead despite me being able to fight her again.

Except.... she wasn't dead. Because death animations are not canon. Just because a person fell to the ground doesn't mean it's canon. Confirmation of death is canon.

and yes, you can indeed decapitate Cauthrien after rescuing Anora, and she'll fall to the ground.

I believe that´s actually a bug...

even though I can fight her again? I doubt it's a bug, because that's a pretty serious bug. I still maintain that death animations and falling down isn't canon unless confirmed by either the player or some 3rd party.

[Tirfan]

Well, come on - the game is still, even after all the patches, filled with more or less serious bugs, and while I do understand the idea of gameplay/lore segregation there really is a line somewhere. I've always thought of the death animations as canon, just all the situations where you decapitate characters that won't die (Cauthrien, Bann Teagan, The First) just as bugs, or the laziness of the devs, or that for some reason it was impossible to make it so that those characters to not have death-animations, if this is the case, well, then I can accept that Lel wasn't decapitated.

But well, if you get the decapitation animation when killing The First, its absolutely hilarious, he actually talks without having an head in the cutscene, I just had to say this.

Modifié par Tirfan, 06 juillet 2011 - 01:20 .

[TEWR]

Tirfan wrote...

Well, come on - the game is still, even after all the patches, filled with more or less serious bugs, and while I do understand the idea of gameplay/lore segregation there really is a line somewhere. I've always thought of the death animations as canon, just all the situations where you decapitate characters that won't die (Cauthrien, Bann Teagan, The First) just as bugs, or the laziness of the devs, or that for some reason it was impossible to make it so that those characters to not have death-animations, if this is the case, well, then I can accept that Lel wasn't decapitated.

But well, if you get the decapitation animation when killing The First, its absolutely hilarious, he actually talks without having an head in the cutscene, I just had to say this.

I've always wanted to see that bug but I've never gotten it

[Zem_]

Tirfan wrote...
But well, if you get the decapitation animation when killing The First, its absolutely hilarious, he actually talks without having an head in the cutscene, I just had to say this.

That's never happened to me with Howe, so it seems they CAN prevent it when they do it right.  Also the bandit leader at Lothering and the Loghain captain in the tavern there both seem able to plead for their lives before you can decapitate them. 

I think it's a bit silly to claim the death animations aren't intended to be canon.  One might as well claim that NOTHING you are shown on the screen is canon if you can't trust seeing something as obvious as a person's head flying off their shoulders in a fountain of blood as evidence they just might be dead.

[Kyda]

 Actually the Ser Cauthrien one is a bug, it only happens if you kill her and then lose to the remaining soldiers... if you kill her and the soldiers then she´s dead for real. In the wikia they talk about a possible explanation to saving her life if you lose but even there it says that it is a little too hard to explain if you chop her head ... 

[alex90c]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Tirfan wrote...

Well, come on - the game is still, even after all the patches, filled with more or less serious bugs, and while I do understand the idea of gameplay/lore segregation there really is a line somewhere. I've always thought of the death animations as canon, just all the situations where you decapitate characters that won't die (Cauthrien, Bann Teagan, The First) just as bugs, or the laziness of the devs, or that for some reason it was impossible to make it so that those characters to not have death-animations, if this is the case, well, then I can accept that Lel wasn't decapitated.

But well, if you get the decapitation animation when killing The First, its absolutely hilarious, he actually talks without having an head in the cutscene, I just had to say this.

I've always wanted to see that bug but I've never gotten it

Is The First the Darkspawn you have to fight in the Blackmarsh Fade? I think that happened on my second playthrough of Awakening, it was pretty hilarious, haha.

[In Exile]

Zem_ wrote...

I think it's a bit silly to claim the death animations aren't intended to be canon.  One might as well claim that NOTHING you are shown on the screen is canon if you can't trust seeing something as obvious as a person's head flying off their shoulders in a fountain of blood as evidence they just might be dead.

Then Ser Cautherin came back fro the dead.

[Feraele]

alex90c wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Tirfan wrote...

Well, come on - the game is still, even after all the patches, filled with more or less serious bugs, and while I do understand the idea of gameplay/lore segregation there really is a line somewhere. I've always thought of the death animations as canon, just all the situations where you decapitate characters that won't die (Cauthrien, Bann Teagan, The First) just as bugs, or the laziness of the devs, or that for some reason it was impossible to make it so that those characters to not have death-animations, if this is the case, well, then I can accept that Lel wasn't decapitated.

But well, if you get the decapitation animation when killing The First, its absolutely hilarious, he actually talks without having an head in the cutscene, I just had to say this.

I've always wanted to see that bug but I've never gotten it

Is The First the Darkspawn you have to fight in the Blackmarsh Fade? I think that happened on my second playthrough of Awakening, it was pretty hilarious, haha.

Yes I have gotten that bug about 3 or 4 times,  funny as hell

[Zem_]

In Exile wrote...

Zem_ wrote...

I think it's a bit silly to claim the death animations aren't intended to be canon.  One might as well claim that NOTHING you are shown on the screen is canon if you can't trust seeing something as obvious as a person's head flying off their shoulders in a fountain of blood as evidence they just might be dead.

Then Ser Cautherin came back fro the dead.

Wouldn't be the only bug in this game.