111 réponses à ce sujet

[JFarr74]

Sorry about the triple post guys....my bad!

[iPwnTheSlayer]

In my insanity playthrough, the mattock proved to be my go-to weapon of choice but if you want the revenant its ok since it has more ammo

[JFarr74]

The Revenant becomes a beast though when you buy the accuracy upgrade.

[mcsupersport]

Rev really doesn't come into it's own until you get that upgrade. To me it is a more fun style of play than the Widow/Mattock, even if it isn't quite as effective. The Rev just feels good, and once you get the proper upgrades it is actually a really good gun, far and away the best of the stock ARs. The Mattock is just so powerful under most circumstances, that it overshadows the Rev a bit because you can kill far away or close up without a problem, whereas the Rev really needs medium to point-blank range to be super effective.

For all out numbers effectiveness the Widow/Mattock is the best combo.
For pure fun and effectiveness then the Rev is the way to go.

[ryoldschool]

I've recently went back and got the Claymore as soldier, after trying the Revenant. Its a lot of fun and you still have the Mattock as your AR. I always take the Widow, but this Claymore ( using the reload trick ) is effective - its the highest damage per shot in the game ( using AR at close range ). I used it ( almost ) exclusively on "Arrival" and LotSB missions and its very effective. Great for a change of pace. If this is your first soldier playthrough, Widow/Mattock is hard to beat, but Claymore/Mattock is quite different and you might like it.

[mcsupersport]

Actually the Geth Shotgun with a charged shot is the highest burst damage shotgun.
Max single shot with the claymore and 8 pellets hitting is 400pts, while a fully charged Geth Shotgun does 556. This is one reason the Mattock/Widow soldier is so good, because you can take the GSG along for Claymore like effectiveness and still have the Widow and an awesome AR.

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Shotguns
for reference

[termokanden]

And the GPS is even better if you hit multiple enemies. Can happen if you fire into crowds without aiming, for example the people on the trucks in LotSB.

[ryoldschool]

I hear you about the numbers, looked them up after I posted. The Claymore has better ammo effect processing and your second shot with reload trick is faster for those enemies that survive the first shot - like krogen with full armor. Just did tali loyalty mission and only used Claymore. That Geth shotgun is just awkward with the delay IMO. I do use it when I take the widow, but only for stripping shields on distant enemies. Claymore is a very different experience, I like it.

[termokanden]

I get that. I use the Claymore on my vanguard and the Eviscerator on my shotgun infiltrator. I only use the GPS on my adept for longer-range stuff because I find it somewhat awkward to use in CQC.

I have yet to try a Claymore soldier. I guess it's one of the few things I haven't done yet.

[JFarr74]

I give Grunt the Claymore because that is the highest single-shot shotgun damage, and can't charge the Geth Plasma Shotgun. I give the Geth Plasma Shotgun to everyone else and me, seeing how it has the second-highest single-shot damage, they can't use the Claymore, and I can charge the Geth Plasma Shotgun.

[ryoldschool]

JFarr74 wrote...

I give Grunt the Claymore because that is the highest single-shot shotgun damage, and can't charge the Geth Plasma Shotgun. I give the Geth Plasma Shotgun to everyone else and me, seeing how it has the second-highest single-shot damage, they can't use the Claymore, and I can charge the Geth Plasma Shotgun.

I agree with your logic for squadmate shotguns.  What I am suggesting is that in the Mattock vs Revenant choice, you can also keep the Mattock but select the Claymore and get a very different playstyle.  INMNE posted a thread about this version that is in the sticky.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/261/index/3097295  ( there is a video by AverageGatsby on collector ship trap with Claymore soldier in the thread in this link )

In my soldier playthroughs whenever I used the Geth shotgun I found it difficult to use as a main weapon - useful when I want to kill just one guy, but the charging process was slower and awkard for CQC.  As I am trying to explain my reasons for Soldier/Claymore, you ( JFarr74 ), probably is only interested in the best assult rifle and not another way to play soldier.  So, sorry I messed with your thread.

[JFarr74]

ryoldschool wrote...

JFarr74 wrote...

I give Grunt the Claymore because that is the highest single-shot shotgun damage, and can't charge the Geth Plasma Shotgun. I give the Geth Plasma Shotgun to everyone else and me, seeing how it has the second-highest single-shot damage, they can't use the Claymore, and I can charge the Geth Plasma Shotgun.

I agree with your logic for squadmate shotguns.  What I am suggesting is that in the Mattock vs Revenant choice, you can also keep the Mattock but select the Claymore and get a very different playstyle.  INMNE posted a thread about this version that is in the sticky.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/261/index/3097295  ( there is a video by AverageGatsby on collector ship trap with Claymore soldier in the thread in this link )

In my soldier playthroughs whenever I used the Geth shotgun I found it difficult to use as a main weapon - useful when I want to kill just one guy, but the charging process was slower and awkard for CQC.  As I am trying to explain my reasons for Soldier/Claymore, you ( JFarr74 ), probably is only interested in the best assult rifle and not another way to play soldier.  So, sorry I messed with your thread.

Thank you very much good sir!

[skuko]

well, i just recently started a soldier and also wondered about what to take. last time i played a soldier (saves got fecked) i played with geth plasma rifle (because i liked it, and i didnt have any DLC). this time i started with mattock and by the time i got the collector ship, i already had acc upgrade, and i tried out the revenant, but i honestly didnt like it. just not my style i guess. i chose the widow because id on't like claymore either, cannot be arsed to do the reload glitch. i played with the assault shotty as vanguard.

so yeah - mattock is teh shizzle.

Modifié par skuko, 11 juillet 2011 - 07:43 .

[JFarr74]

Revenant!

[paveways]

cant get used to the rev, so mattock is teh ****!

[TLayug]

My first soldier playthrough, I was a die hard mattock/widow man and thought that the revenant was a piece of s***. But then I learned how to use the revenant and I can't go back.

Remember that you can have both. With ARush in play, the widow ends up getting out dpsed by just about everything I use on my soldier(revenant/mattock, viper, gps, phalanx) and it has a slow ammo pickup. Just keep that in mind.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

I've said this before and I'll say it again: The Revenant is more fun and easier on the soul.

[sharkboy421]

I've tried both Rev and Mattock/Widow and personally I find the Rev to be the more efficient weapon. Yes you need the acc upgrade to be able to use small bursts efficiently at medium range, but it is very easy to have that upgrade before the CS (Mordin recruitment, Tali recruitment and Illium shop). And while the widow is very capable of one shots on insanity, I still find the Viper to be quite good at dropping guys with only a handful of shots. But the Mattock/Widow combo is incredibly potent as well, so it really comes down to personal play style.

[spartacusthegod]

strive wrote...

Mattock is bugged under Adrenaline Rush, so it is much better. I find the Rev more enjoyable.

Only if you're playing on the PC version.  For the 360 it's not bugged, I've heard about this before.

Depends really on your playing style.  You want perfect, precision killing, the Mattock is the way to go (especially after you get the AR accuracy upgrade).  You want to go and spray everything with tiny little bits of death?  The Revenant is absolutely the thing for you.

Basically it comes down to this: one-shot, or sheer overpowered-ness?  Depends a bit on the build as well, Heightened Adrenaline Rush fits the Mattock and Widow sniper better, while Hardened goes quite well with the Revenant.

The Mattock has a higher damage per shot, BUT the Revenant has more shots.  Also, take this little bit into consideration: both do 1.2X bonus damage against shields and barriers.  The Mattock deals 1.3X to armor, while the Revenant deals 1.4X.  Doesn't seem like much, but when you use the right ammo powers it does make a difference.  Using Warp Ammo, the Revenant will chew through Harbinger like nothing.  Or using Inferno Ammo, and Miranda to take down Barriers and Shields, you can chew through ANYTHING with extreme ease using the Revenant.

Something I realized (and particularly enjoyed) is this: with the accuracy upgrade, and while you're crouched and aiming over cover, the Revenant is surprisingly accurate, almost as accurate as the Mattock is before the accuracy upgrade.  

Keep this in mind if you're going for Insanity, because a lot of time you'll be behind cover...

[JFarr74]

I'm kinda leaning towards the Mattock.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

So basically you've been sitting around for 2 months because after 2 months you still can't figure out which gun to take, even though in 2 months you could comfortably do maybe 3-4 full PTs of this game, 2 of which you could've used to go both ways...

If there was ever was a Reaper invasion or some sort of ultra world war and we all got drafted or whatnot, remind me not to join your squad. lol sigh

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 07 septembre 2011 - 02:50 .

[capn233]

I don't have that weapons pack, but from videos it would seem that Mattock is excessively powerful, so if you want to make the game easier that seems like the logical choice. Especially since it allows you to also carry a Widow and a decent shotgun of your choice. I never felt the need to get a pack of ridiculously designed weapons though (free Cerberus weapons, and powerful SMG combined with a character notwithstanding).

My first playthrough was Veteran / Hardcore. The rest were Insanity:

I like the Revenant. It was the first bonus weapon I got, and I have used it on most of my Soldiers. It works well because of huge ammo capacity, and hardened adrenaline rush. And because you are using hardened AR, it works very well in combo with the Viper. The only downside is you just need to learn how to use the Revenant in bursts. That and you probably won't touch your shotgun again unless you really want to. It's somewhat of a transition from the laser precise Vindicator, so the very first time you get it you may be in for a surprise.

I don't really know why everyone is so enamored with the Widow. It is good, but not really the greatest thing since sliced bread. I did a run as a Widow soldier, and I had the Vindicator as backup. Wasn't bad, just takes a different style than the Revenant. A style I thought wasn't as fun though. So when I did an infiltrator play through, I took AR training and used Vindi / Viper combination. Never felt outgunned with those. Especially after you get the Tempest and have good weapons for every range.

[spartacusthegod]

Ace of Dawn wrote...
Really, all it's showing is that the gun could theoretically fire as though it were an automatic, but we can't pull the trigger fast enough. Adrenaline Rush allows use to enter a state where time is "slowing down" and we can pull the trigger much faster.

I've managed easily to spam the trigger fast enough with it.  Then again, I DO play on the 360.  It does seem to have a maximum fire rate, equivalent to that of the Avenger it looks like.

[capn233]

Is the Mattock really bugged? I don't have it so haven't used it personally, but the info states that its max rate of fire is 750rpm, which is indeed 50rpm more than the Revenant. From the videos I see, during AR the firing rate is about the same between the two, namely about half of that: 350-375rpm. It doesn't seem to me that anyone can fire it much faster out of adrenaline rush. It's ROF out of AR should be 12.5 rounds per second

If someone does manage to pull that off, or if there is a video of it I would be glad to see it. It seems to me the real issue is not really a "bug" but rather the weapon design. Unless it was an error to make the max ROF 750rpm, it is working as designed.

On a real firearm, if you suppose you had an AK47 you could approach the full auto rate of fire in semi-automatic, but even with the world's fastest trigger finger you could not beat full auto... you would end up trying to pull the trigger before the action had reset. Obviously a mass effect powered weapon wouldn't work exactly the same way, but if we imagined the ROF was limited by charging the field (or whatever explanation), pushing on the button more would not make it fire faster. Our conclusion would then be that a full-auto Mattock variant would fire at least 750RPM.

In that light, the problem is more "why does the Revenant fire at such a leisurely rate for an LMG?" 700RPM is like rock bottom for one. I guess they didn't want to make it too powerful, but on the other hand, they didn't worry so much about overpowering the weapons with the DLC's. I might have given it a ROF of more like 800 and / or damage per round of 25. But then again I wouldn't have had pistols that do more damage than a rifle or LMG either.

[mcsupersport]

The Rev will shoot about 11.5 rounds per outside the game world second in normal game play.
The Rev will shoot about 5 rounds per outside the game world second in ARush.

The Matlock will shoot about 3-7 rounds per outside the game world second in normal play, depending on a good mouse/gamepad click rate.
The Matlock will shoot 3-7 rounds per outside the game world second in ARush, depending on a good mouse/gamepad click rate.

Now think about this, in the game the you shoot slower in ARush but get more damage with every gun that is rapid fire, except the Matlock, which will shoot at the exact same speed all the time. For every other rapid fire gun, there isn't really a difference between the dps of being in ARush or out of ARush other than making things easier to hit which increases your actual DPS,but the theoretical dps pretty much is the same. The Matlock abilities in ARush basically means, you get a bonus to damage per outside the game world second of 100-140%, over normal fighting time. So under ARush you just doubled(about) your damage output while using the Matlock, instead of holding it about the same in real world time.

Bogus numbers to show what I didn't type real well above......
Let's say the Rev does 25 pts per shot and shoots 12 per second,and the Matlock does 50 per shot normally and shoots 5 shots per second. All time is outside of game, real life time.

Outside Arush Real time seconds(this is outside real life time used)
Rev.. 25x12=300 per second damage
Matlock...50*5=250 per second damage.

Inside Arush Real time seconds(Hardened Arush evolution +100% damage, 50% speed reduction)
Rev ....50x6=300 per second damage.
Matlock..100x5=500 per second damage.

This is why people say the Matlock is broken/bugged, because you double your damage output unlike other rapid fire damage. The damage for Matlock is more akin to sniper rifles boosts than assault rifles.