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Dragon Age Origins is highly overrated, and DAII does many things better.


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#1
txgoldrush

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Why does everyone hold this game in such high regard than bash DAII?

Really DAO is highly overrated, while DAII while having some serious flaws, is underrated.

Lets start with story. DAO is basically LOTR's with gore. Thats it. The Darkspawn are gonna burn everything, we must stop them. Its very generic, very cliched, very boring. Its also a Lord of the Rings rip...compae the Warden to Frodo (and The Ring his Wardeness), while Loghain is the regent of Gondor, Alistair is Aragorn, The Archdemon is Sauron, and the Darkspawn are the orcs of Mordor, while Denerim is Minas Tirith. Lets not also forget the lack of focus in that the 4 main mid quests's narratives overpower the main quests, while Nature of the Beast and the Urn Of The Sacred Ashes were great, the Broken Circle and  Paragon Of Her Kind stumble due to pacing and poor game design. Its also too bad that they have nothing to do with the story except for gathering plot coupons. Very little reminders of the main threat as well. Its like the Spawn aren't even attacking. ME3 will have a similiar story, but at least The Reapers and indoctrinated Cerberus troopers will remind Shepard of the main threat. And then, unlike its sequel, the party members have barely anything to do with the main plot outside of Alistair and Morrigan.

Now for the characters....one dimensional clones of Bioware characters. Its that Carth? No, its Alistair. Hey Oghren is Black Whirlwind as a Dwarf and if HK47 was an elf, he'd be Zervan. Morrigan and Viconia are like twins, Leliana is Dawn Star. Sten is just like Sagacious Zu, a very untalkative character with a dark past. Only Wynne and Shale seem to be like original characters and Shale has HK47 qualities as well. And almost all of them are one dimensional to boot, or sometimes two dimensional in the case of Morrigan and Allistair. The exceptions are Wynne and Leliana, who is really one of Bioware's best written characters. Everyone else has one personality, one angle, nothing more, and Zervan's DAII appearance proves how one dimensional he is. DAII on the other hand, has more fleshed out and more multi dimensional characters. Varric, along with Leliana, is the most multidimensional character in the series. Isabela has multiple angles on her and does some pretty unexpected things that you don't expect. Aveline has complex views on law and order and is not afraid to extrajudically execute criminals. Anders becomes a true dynamic character and someone that goes from likable to unlikable as the game progresses, thats profound. Only Fenris do I say is more one dimensional and he has more dynamics to him than most of Origins cast. The friendship/rivalry system also gives the characters new angles. Far better cast than the one in Origins or Awakenings. And except for Merril, no clones either.

Gameplay and combat in DAO is so broken and clunky its not even funny. This is far from Baldur's Gate II it tries to be. The skills are so unbalanced especially for a mage that it ceases to be any sort of a tactical masterpiece it wants to be. Mana clash for instance is telling a mage, your dead. Its too easy when you know what you are doing. Not only that, why does my Arcane Warrior fight like she has a pole shoved up her butt? DAII is far from perfect, but its better, especially with patch 1.3. I like how you are actually encouraged to use class combos and that the classes are more balanced. Lets not forget that the dialogue system is much better in DAII (except for the sarcastic option) and Hawke is now actually a character. Far from Geralt of Rivia or Nameless One level, but much better than the listless Warden who was a step back from Shepard. Character customization is overrated anyway...Id rather be a real more fleshed out protagonist  with emotions that can make decisions than a listles splayer avatar who every character talks AT, and not WITH.

Fans that hate on DAII while praising the first just fail to admit that DAO has significant flaws. DAO played it safe and as a result its a boring effort, especially compared to games like The Witcher and NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer which tells a far better written tale with better characters. DAII isn't afraid to fail and in many cases it does, but it also succeeds overall. While the recycled environments and the rushed production values is a huge determent, the story is smarter, has more soul, with better characters, better written side quests, etc. While DAII was rushed to release, DAO was in development too long and got surpassed in quality long before release.

The Dragon Age franchise has yet to achieve greatness...its just not there yet.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 25 juin 2011 - 05:38 .


#2
chunkyman

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DA:O is a genuinely better game. That isn't just the nostalgia talking, I find that DA:O had many things that I didn't find in DA2 including an engaging story, a world filled with morally grey choices that you had to make, and lots of freedom to customize you and your companions.

#3
txgoldrush

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chunkyman wrote...

DA:O is a genuinely better game. That isn't just the nostalgia talking, I find that DA:O had many things that I didn't find in DA2 including an engaging story, a world filled with morally grey choices that you had to make, and lots of freedom to customize you and your companions.


call LOTR ripoff engaging...it was laughably cliched. DAO had morally grey choices, however, DAII had even more morally grey choices...I can do the Leliana/Morrigan test in DAO, and almost all moral ambigguity in DAO is lost. And once again, sometimes customization isn't better. I am glad I can't customize Planescape Torment characters.

#4
phoenixgoddess27

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I don't think this thread is going to end well...

#5
ThatoneWarden99

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^
This. No doubt, This
*On a side note, i very much liked both DAll and DA:O, but I found Origins to be more...lets say immersive.

#6
Agamo45

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DA:O was far from perfect, but it was a masterpiece compared to the trash that we got with DA2.

#7
chunkyman

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txgoldrush wrote...

chunkyman wrote...

DA:O is a genuinely better game. That isn't just the nostalgia talking, I find that DA:O had many things that I didn't find in DA2 including an engaging story, a world filled with morally grey choices that you had to make, and lots of freedom to customize you and your companions.


call LOTR ripoff engaging...it was laughably cliched. DAO had morally grey choices, however, DAII had even more morally grey choices...I can do the Leliana/Morrigan test in DAO, and almost all moral ambigguity in DAO is lost. And once again, sometimes customization isn't better. I am glad I can't customize Planescape Torment characters.


Parallells can be made between any story told. Every basic story idea has been written already, with differences arising out of the combinations of characters, presentation, quality of writing, themes, and other things. I liked DA:O's story because it gave me a world I was interested, tension arising out of political turmoil, an epic tale of tough choices and lasting consequences, and companions that were emotionally impactful to the story. I didn't get that out of DA2.

#8
txgoldrush

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chunkyman wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

chunkyman wrote...

DA:O is a genuinely better game. That isn't just the nostalgia talking, I find that DA:O had many things that I didn't find in DA2 including an engaging story, a world filled with morally grey choices that you had to make, and lots of freedom to customize you and your companions.


call LOTR ripoff engaging...it was laughably cliched. DAO had morally grey choices, however, DAII had even more morally grey choices...I can do the Leliana/Morrigan test in DAO, and almost all moral ambigguity in DAO is lost. And once again, sometimes customization isn't better. I am glad I can't customize Planescape Torment characters.


Parallells can be made between any story told. Every basic story idea has been written already, with differences arising out of the combinations of characters, presentation, quality of writing, themes, and other things. I liked DA:O's story because it gave me a world I was interested, tension arising out of political turmoil, an epic tale of tough choices and lasting consequences, and companions that were emotionally impactful to the story. I didn't get that out of DA2.


While every idea for a story is basically written already, but then then there is the blantant ripoff. Thats different.

DAO pales in comparison to the likes of The Witcher when it comes to tough choices or even the Mass Effect games for that matter. The tough choice in the Sacred Ashes quest can even be weaseled out.

And DAII chocies were tougher than DAO ones, much more morally ambigious. The political turmoil is better as well and the companions actually participate in the story unlike in Origins. In fact Fenris is the only companion that doesn't involve themself in the main story. in DAO, take out any character other than Alistair and morrigan and the story doesn't change. They are just "there".

#9
csfteeeer

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oh S**t *Prepares for Flame Storm*

EDIT: Wait Wait Wait, Txgoldrush? you're the one that got flamed to hell at Gamespot for defending DA2 at that interview, while acting as if your opinion was a fact, HA.
Note: i've also seen you in IGN.

Oh and BTW, LOTR Had gore, you clearly haven't looked into it.

Modifié par csfteeeer, 25 juin 2011 - 06:30 .


#10
Dormiglione

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@OP
Cant remember that people said: "DAO is perfect, no flaws, no bugs,.." DAO has its flaws yes, nobody denies it.

Sten: is a very deep character. Take him with you through the whole campaign and he will tell amazing story's and details about the qunari society.
Morrigan, Alistair, Leliana, Shale are very good written companions. Dont know who you could miss their personality. Every main quests of DAO brings you to complete new areas with a lot of lore. Some of them are better connected and some less connected to the final quest.

There are things that DAO did better than DA2 and of course, there are things that DA2 did better than DAO. . Its absolute ok If you like DA2 more than DAO.

DAO is overrated? Hmmm, you know a lot of people love DAO. Its not always about technical specs, some game just finds a place in the heart of a player, regardless how many flaws that it has.

#11
txgoldrush

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Dormiglione wrote...

@OP
Cant remember that people said: "DAO is perfect, no flaws, no bugs,.." DAO has its flaws yes, nobody denies it.

Sten: is a very deep character. Take him with you through the whole campaign and he will tell amazing story's and details about the qunari society.
Morrigan, Alistair, Leliana, Shale are very good written companions. Dont know who you could miss their personality. Every main quests of DAO brings you to complete new areas with a lot of lore. Some of them are better connected and some less connected to the final quest.

There are things that DAO did better than DA2 and of course, there are things that DA2 did better than DAO. . Its absolute ok If you like DA2 more than DAO.

DAO is overrated? Hmmm, you know a lot of people love DAO. Its not always about technical specs, some game just finds a place in the heart of a player, regardless how many flaws that it has.


Sten a deep character? Not really....after his personal story, he is just a library on Qunari. Tali was the same way in the first Mass Effect, a library on Quarians, nothing more. She became deep and special in the sequel however as she gained more dimensions.

Leliana I have already called one of Bioware's best. Alistair, not really a well written companion, especially after he leaves if you spare Loghain, what a baby. Morrigan is really a wait and see, she has untapped potential and needs growth. Shale is interesting, but not important.

Lore is nice, but you have to put it together. DAO really fails at this. DAO is  a mish mash of ideas more than it is a complete story.

#12
csfteeeer

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txgoldrush wrote...

Dormiglione wrote...

@OP
Cant remember that people said: "DAO is perfect, no flaws, no bugs,.." DAO has its flaws yes, nobody denies it.

Sten: is a very deep character. Take him with you through the whole campaign and he will tell amazing story's and details about the qunari society.
Morrigan, Alistair, Leliana, Shale are very good written companions. Dont know who you could miss their personality. Every main quests of DAO brings you to complete new areas with a lot of lore. Some of them are better connected and some less connected to the final quest.

There are things that DAO did better than DA2 and of course, there are things that DA2 did better than DAO. . Its absolute ok If you like DA2 more than DAO.

DAO is overrated? Hmmm, you know a lot of people love DAO. Its not always about technical specs, some game just finds a place in the heart of a player, regardless how many flaws that it has.


Sten a deep character? Not really....after his personal story, he is just a library on Qunari. Tali was the same way in the first Mass Effect, a library on Quarians, nothing more. She became deep and special in the sequel however as she gained more dimensions.

Leliana I have already called one of Bioware's best. Alistair, not really a well written companion, especially after he leaves if you spare Loghain, what a baby. Morrigan is really a wait and see, she has untapped potential and needs growth. Shale is interesting, but not important.

Lore is nice, but you have to put it together. DAO really fails at this. DAO is  a mish mash of ideas more than it is a complete story.


Yep, you're the same person.

#13
chunkyman

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txgoldrush wrote...
While every idea for a story is basically written already, but then then there is the blantant ripoff. Thats different.

DAO pales in comparison to the likes of The Witcher when it comes to tough choices or even the Mass Effect games for that matter. The tough choice in the Sacred Ashes quest can even be weaseled out.

And DAII chocies were tougher than DAO ones, much more morally ambigious. The political turmoil is better as well and the companions actually participate in the story unlike in Origins. In fact Fenris is the only companion that doesn't involve themself in the main story. in DAO, take out any character other than Alistair and morrigan and the story doesn't change. They are just "there".


I really don't see DA:O as a blatant ripoff... and I'm a pretty good ripoff detector. I don't even remember any real choices in DA2 other than the final one, everything felt like it had no consequences. Companions in DA:O were a story in their own right, independent of the conflict happening in Fereldan. Companions in DA2 felt shallow and I didn't care what happened to them.

#14
txgoldrush

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chunkyman wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
While every idea for a story is basically written already, but then then there is the blantant ripoff. Thats different.

DAO pales in comparison to the likes of The Witcher when it comes to tough choices or even the Mass Effect games for that matter. The tough choice in the Sacred Ashes quest can even be weaseled out.

And DAII chocies were tougher than DAO ones, much more morally ambigious. The political turmoil is better as well and the companions actually participate in the story unlike in Origins. In fact Fenris is the only companion that doesn't involve themself in the main story. in DAO, take out any character other than Alistair and morrigan and the story doesn't change. They are just "there".


I really don't see DA:O as a blatant ripoff... and I'm a pretty good ripoff detector. I don't even remember any real choices in DA2 other than the final one, everything felt like it had no consequences. Companions in DA:O were a story in their own right, independent of the conflict happening in Fereldan. Companions in DA2 felt shallow and I didn't care what happened to them.


Like who you send in the Deep Roads isn't a significant choice? That one will alter the flow of the endgame if Bethany or Carver is in it. Instead of big picture consquences, DAII had more significant side story consquences.

And how is DAO not a LOTR's ripoff? Its almost the third book retold witht he Warden himself as the ring.

DAII characters are far from shallow...instead of being talking codex entries, they get three persoanl quests each. I likehow the SHOW, not TELL, their story.

#15
csfteeeer

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txgoldrush wrote...

chunkyman wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
While every idea for a story is basically written already, but then then there is the blantant ripoff. Thats different.

DAO pales in comparison to the likes of The Witcher when it comes to tough choices or even the Mass Effect games for that matter. The tough choice in the Sacred Ashes quest can even be weaseled out.

And DAII chocies were tougher than DAO ones, much more morally ambigious. The political turmoil is better as well and the companions actually participate in the story unlike in Origins. In fact Fenris is the only companion that doesn't involve themself in the main story. in DAO, take out any character other than Alistair and morrigan and the story doesn't change. They are just "there".


I really don't see DA:O as a blatant ripoff... and I'm a pretty good ripoff detector. I don't even remember any real choices in DA2 other than the final one, everything felt like it had no consequences. Companions in DA:O were a story in their own right, independent of the conflict happening in Fereldan. Companions in DA2 felt shallow and I didn't care what happened to them.


Like who you send in the Deep Roads isn't a significant choice? That one will alter the flow of the endgame if Bethany or Carver is in it. Instead of big picture consquences, DAII had more significant side story consquences.

And how is DAO not a LOTR's ripoff? Its almost the third book retold witht he Warden himself as the ring.

DAII characters are far from shallow...instead of being talking codex entries, they get three persoanl quests each. I likehow the SHOW, not TELL, their story.


What?!?!?!
Oh my god...

#16
FieryDove

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txgoldrush wrote...

Like who you send in the Deep Roads isn't a significant choice? That one will alter the flow of the endgame if Bethany or Carver is in it. Instead of big picture consquences, DAII had more significant side story consquences.

And how is DAO not a LOTR's ripoff? Its almost the third book retold witht he Warden himself as the ring.

DAII characters are far from shallow...instead of being talking codex entries, they get three persoanl quests each. I likehow the SHOW, not TELL, their story.


I disagree.

Spoilers does not equal spoiler spoiler spoiler.

#17
txgoldrush

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csfteeeer wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

chunkyman wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
While every idea for a story is basically written already, but then then there is the blantant ripoff. Thats different.

DAO pales in comparison to the likes of The Witcher when it comes to tough choices or even the Mass Effect games for that matter. The tough choice in the Sacred Ashes quest can even be weaseled out.

And DAII chocies were tougher than DAO ones, much more morally ambigious. The political turmoil is better as well and the companions actually participate in the story unlike in Origins. In fact Fenris is the only companion that doesn't involve themself in the main story. in DAO, take out any character other than Alistair and morrigan and the story doesn't change. They are just "there".


I really don't see DA:O as a blatant ripoff... and I'm a pretty good ripoff detector. I don't even remember any real choices in DA2 other than the final one, everything felt like it had no consequences. Companions in DA:O were a story in their own right, independent of the conflict happening in Fereldan. Companions in DA2 felt shallow and I didn't care what happened to them.


Like who you send in the Deep Roads isn't a significant choice? That one will alter the flow of the endgame if Bethany or Carver is in it. Instead of big picture consquences, DAII had more significant side story consquences.

And how is DAO not a LOTR's ripoff? Its almost the third book retold witht he Warden himself as the ring.

DAII characters are far from shallow...instead of being talking codex entries, they get three persoanl quests each. I likehow the SHOW, not TELL, their story.


What?!?!?!
Oh my god...


then how is it not a LOTR's ripoff? I still have not got an answer.

#18
A Crusty Knight Of Colour

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I don't know if you want to go through the "show", not "tell" path with Dragon Age 2. It's rife with it.

Templars not attacking Magic users, Hawke earning a reputation/minor characters suddenly knowing you, etc.

Thin Veil I guess would be a show, not tell aspect, but it's done poorly. You're not left feeling that certain Mages are under the influence of a thin Veil, you're left with the impression that most Mages were crazy with only a few exceptions.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 25 juin 2011 - 06:50 .


#19
Yrkoon

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txgoldrush wrote...

Why does everyone hold this game in such high regard than bash DAII?

This question makes no sense at all.    I've done both.  And so have many, many other people.

But on a serious note:

txgoldrush wrote...


Fans that hate on DAII while praising the first just fail to admit that DAO has significant flaws.

Oh, BS.  As a DA:O praiser/DA2 basher, I'd easily and quickly say that DA:O has about 200 flaws, ranging from  from inconsequential to very significant.  However, to even put it in the same category as the turd that was DA2, it would have to have about 10 times as many flaws as it does.

But you know what?  Over the past couple of months I've come to terms with DA2.  That is to say, instead of focussing on  everything it does so spectacularly wrong, I've simply dismissed it away as a game that's not for me.  I'm an  adult, and  a fantasy RPG fan, therefore, I don't like DA2.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 25 juin 2011 - 09:54 .


#20
csfteeeer

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txgoldrush wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

chunkyman wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
While every idea for a story is basically written already, but then then there is the blantant ripoff. Thats different.

DAO pales in comparison to the likes of The Witcher when it comes to tough choices or even the Mass Effect games for that matter. The tough choice in the Sacred Ashes quest can even be weaseled out.

And DAII chocies were tougher than DAO ones, much more morally ambigious. The political turmoil is better as well and the companions actually participate in the story unlike in Origins. In fact Fenris is the only companion that doesn't involve themself in the main story. in DAO, take out any character other than Alistair and morrigan and the story doesn't change. They are just "there".


I really don't see DA:O as a blatant ripoff... and I'm a pretty good ripoff detector. I don't even remember any real choices in DA2 other than the final one, everything felt like it had no consequences. Companions in DA:O were a story in their own right, independent of the conflict happening in Fereldan. Companions in DA2 felt shallow and I didn't care what happened to them.


Like who you send in the Deep Roads isn't a significant choice? That one will alter the flow of the endgame if Bethany or Carver is in it. Instead of big picture consquences, DAII had more significant side story consquences.

And how is DAO not a LOTR's ripoff? Its almost the third book retold witht he Warden himself as the ring.

DAII characters are far from shallow...instead of being talking codex entries, they get three persoanl quests each. I likehow the SHOW, not TELL, their story.


What?!?!?!
Oh my god...


then how is it not a LOTR's ripoff? I still have not got an answer.


i was refering to how you said they SHOW not TELL, cause i can barely (HINT: Barely, not completely) get any information at all out of the characters themselves in the quest and in their talks.

Modifié par csfteeeer, 25 juin 2011 - 06:51 .


#21
txgoldrush

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mrcrusty wrote...

I don't know if you want to go through the "show", not "tell" path with Dragon Age 2. It's rife with it.

Thin Veil, Templars not attacking Magic users, Hawke earning a reputation/minor characters suddenly knowing you, etc.


which they show as well as tell in your first two examples and the third as a result of the frame narrative.

#22
txgoldrush

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csfteeeer wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

chunkyman wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
While every idea for a story is basically written already, but then then there is the blantant ripoff. Thats different.

DAO pales in comparison to the likes of The Witcher when it comes to tough choices or even the Mass Effect games for that matter. The tough choice in the Sacred Ashes quest can even be weaseled out.

And DAII chocies were tougher than DAO ones, much more morally ambigious. The political turmoil is better as well and the companions actually participate in the story unlike in Origins. In fact Fenris is the only companion that doesn't involve themself in the main story. in DAO, take out any character other than Alistair and morrigan and the story doesn't change. They are just "there".


I really don't see DA:O as a blatant ripoff... and I'm a pretty good ripoff detector. I don't even remember any real choices in DA2 other than the final one, everything felt like it had no consequences. Companions in DA:O were a story in their own right, independent of the conflict happening in Fereldan. Companions in DA2 felt shallow and I didn't care what happened to them.


Like who you send in the Deep Roads isn't a significant choice? That one will alter the flow of the endgame if Bethany or Carver is in it. Instead of big picture consquences, DAII had more significant side story consquences.

And how is DAO not a LOTR's ripoff? Its almost the third book retold witht he Warden himself as the ring.

DAII characters are far from shallow...instead of being talking codex entries, they get three persoanl quests each. I likehow the SHOW, not TELL, their story.


What?!?!?!
Oh my god...


then how is it not a LOTR's ripoff? I still have not got an answer.


i was refering to how you said they SHOW not TELL, cause i can barely get any information at all out of the characters themselves in the quest and in their talks.


sometimes the present is more important than their backstory.....

however they do give you all you need to know about them when it comes to the quests.Instead of having them be standing codex entries, they give you their depth when its necessary to do so. And many cases, party banter reveales much about them.

Not to mention they CONTRIBUTE to the story, unlike their DAO counterparts. In fact Leliana contributes more to DAII than she does in DAO!!!!!

#23
phoenixgoddess27

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I'm starting to think this is a troll thread to get reactions out of people.
I believe this forum has seen enough debate to last us until DA: Infinite.

Modifié par phoenixgoddess27, 25 juin 2011 - 06:56 .


#24
Dormiglione

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Dormiglione wrote...

@OP
Cant remember that people said: "DAO is perfect, no flaws, no bugs,.." DAO has its flaws yes, nobody denies it.

Sten: is a very deep character. Take him with you through the whole campaign and he will tell amazing story's and details about the qunari society.
Morrigan, Alistair, Leliana, Shale are very good written companions. Dont know who you could miss their personality. Every main quests of DAO brings you to complete new areas with a lot of lore. Some of them are better connected and some less connected to the final quest.

There are things that DAO did better than DA2 and of course, there are things that DA2 did better than DAO. . Its absolute ok If you like DA2 more than DAO.

DAO is overrated? Hmmm, you know a lot of people love DAO. Its not always about technical specs, some game just finds a place in the heart of a player, regardless how many flaws that it has.


txgoldrush wrote...
Sten a deep character? Not really....after his personal story, he is just a library on Qunari. Tali was the same way in the first Mass Effect, a library on Quarians, nothing more. She became deep and special in the sequel however as she gained more dimensions.



This is your side of view about Sten. Sten regrets that he killed the innocent farmers. He panicked about the loss of his sword (his soul). He likes flowers, butterflies, paintings and the very most important: He likes cookies!

txgoldrush wrote...
Leliana I have already called one of Bioware's best.

Yes, much better than in DA2.

txgoldrush wrote...
Alistair, not really a well written companion, especially after he leaves if you spare Loghain, what a baby.

Here we go. You didnt like his decision. Same here, i didnt liked his decision, his attitude, but this has nothing to do with the character design of Alistair. This was his character, if Alistair had agreed without objection to spare Loghain and make him a grey warden, then i had said, yes, not well written character. But it wasnt the case. He had a unique character.


txgoldrush wrote...
Morrigan is really a wait and see, she has untapped potential and needs growth. Shale is interesting, but not important.

If you put it that way. Who besides of Varric was important, not interesting, important in DA2?

txgoldrush wrote...
Lore is nice, but you have to put it together. DAO really fails at this. DAO is  a mish mash of ideas more than it is a complete story.

Strange, thats not my perception of DAO's Lore.

#25
Yrkoon

Yrkoon
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txgoldrush wrote...


Not to mention they CONTRIBUTE to the story, unlike their DAO counterparts.

Oh indeed. Just like Morrigan. She's not part of DA:O's story at all. And Neither is Alistair! I mean, if you ignore the whole  Next-in-line-for-the-throne  thing LOL

Bizzarro argument is bizzare. Good job OP.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 25 juin 2011 - 06:58 .