585 réponses à ce sujet

[csfteeeer]

I  almost can Hear the OP smashing he's Keyboard trying to come up with more S**t.
this is fun!

Modifié par csfteeeer, 25 juin 2011 - 09:06 .

[Yrkoon]

txgoldrush wrote...

umm no...

Its much more than comic relief....Isabela actually truly wants the best for Aveline,

  Specifically,  She wants Aveline to get laid.  There's nothing more to that.  Stop reading into things that aren't there.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 25 juin 2011 - 09:10 .

[por favor]

txgoldrush wrote...

yes she is shady..thats the expected part...but her signs of maturity are not....you would not expect her to be the best one to comfort Hawke, to take care of Merrill, to toughen up a guard captain, and many times I picked options I thought she may like, nope, rivalry points. She is unpredictable many times percisely because she fits the predictable mold of a rogue.

- She doesn't "take care of Merrill." Merrill isn't five years old, FFS. She hangs out with Merrill, but she doesn't "take care of her."

- Smart-mouthing a guard captain = maturity?

- Comforting Hawke isn't a sign of maturity. That's a sign of humanity. Even a completely immature child would feel compelled to do that.

[txgoldrush]

por favor wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Sorry, but most DAII characters aren't one trick ponies like the cast in DAO are. Is Isabela a one trick pony? Hell no. Look at how she consoles Hawke if the player is romancing her. Look how she looks after Merril.

a) So Isabela doing something seemingly out of character = her not being a one-trick-pony? Humor me...

- Morrigan starts out as a cold-hearted shrew with absolutely no grasp on companionship at all. She is emotionally reserved and distances herself from others. However, as you get to know her and develop a bond with her, she soon shows her soft side and tells the Warden "thank you for teaching me what friendship is all about. Before meeting you, I didn't know what friendship was." 

So how is Morrigan a one-trick-pony despite doing something out of character, but Isabela isn't?

Many times I find the companions doing unexpecting things or hold unexpected views, you don't see this in DAO.

Oh really? Alistair agreeing to become King wasn't unexpected? Zevran falling in love with the Warden wasn't unexpected? Morrigan showing her soft side and thanking the Warden for teaching her what friendship truly was wasn't unexpected? 

And how is the dialogue oversimplified, its not.

c) Let's see...maybe because instead of a large list of diverse dialogue choices, you're left with three options: "peaceful," "sarcastic," and "assh&le"? Oh, and let's not forget that little heart for "romance." Really, you don't even have to READ the dialogue. Just keep selecting certain pictures. If that isn't oversimplified, I don't know what is.

The prblem with DAII bashers is that they critcize the game for things it doesn't do wrong, or base their opinions on things that are not true.

d) Yes, because DA2 is completely flawless in every way whatsoever and DA2 "bashers" are all liars that have nothing better to do than complain about the imaginary flaws of DA2.

a) Morrigan, which I calle dmore two dimensional in the first post only shows her softer side once you romance her and develop a significant bond at the end. Isabela on the other hand, will show her loving side throughtout the game. In fact , gameplaywise, Morrigan approves of almost every ruthless action and disapproves of compassionate ones. Not so with Isabela. Her foil Leliana, however, is very multidimensional, much more than Morrigan.

Actually the were expected, as soon as Morrigan was announced to be a love interest, I knew rhe Warden could soften her up. Zervan falling in love with the Warden...he ploughs everything, not unexpected.

c) Its nearly the same as every RPG, but in DAII you can also call your companion, tone of the character matters much more as they set his or her personality opening or closing hisor her choices. Its a much smarter system and one that keeps dialogue flowing.

d0 When did I call DAII flawless? LOL

[zeypher]

lol if you want to hail da2 as a pinnacle of storytelling i do suggest you give the witcher series a try, just a suggestion.
LOL to isabela is complex, all you hear from her is sex, get laid, screwed this etc. Besides yrkoon nailed it perfectly she follows a rogue archtype pretty much to the letter just with tons of sex added onto it nothing else.

[txgoldrush]

Yrkoon wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

umm no...

Its much more than comic relief....Isabela actually truly wants the best for Aveline,

  Specifically,  She wants Aveline to get laid.  There's nothing more to that.  Stop reading into things that aren't there.

No, its there....she does want her to get laid, however, she wants Aveline to be happy as well. And Isabela drives her to get in a supportive relationship as well. Her role in The Long Road, choosing to bring her, is to toughen her up so she can get in a relationship with Donnic.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 25 juin 2011 - 09:24 .

[Lakhi]

This is like reading metacritic all over again... lol

Also ima let you all finish but BG and BGII are so much better than DAO/DAII if you're really griping about story

Modifié par Lakhi, 25 juin 2011 - 09:19 .

[txgoldrush]

por favor wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

yes she is shady..thats the expected part...but her signs of maturity are not....you would not expect her to be the best one to comfort Hawke, to take care of Merrill, to toughen up a guard captain, and many times I picked options I thought she may like, nope, rivalry points. She is unpredictable many times percisely because she fits the predictable mold of a rogue.

- She doesn't "take care of Merrill." Merrill isn't five years old, FFS. She hangs out with Merrill, but she doesn't "take care of her."

- Smart-mouthing a guard captain = maturity?

- Comforting Hawke isn't a sign of maturity. That's a sign of humanity. Even a completely immature child would feel compelled to do that.

No, she looks out for her as well, same with Varric., even coming to her defense in her companion quest when Fenris and Anders sart bad mouthing her.

No, its a sign of maturity the way she comforts him/her. Unexpected maturity from a normally very immature character.

[txgoldrush]

Lakhi wrote...

This is like reading metacritic all over again... lol

Also ima let you all finish but BG and BGII are so much better than DAO/DAII if you're really griping about story

yep....agreed

not even close.

BGII is still Bioware's best tale and Jon Irenicus is the main reason why.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 25 juin 2011 - 09:23 .

[Il Divo]

txgoldrush wrote...

And KOTOR II is in the same boat as DAII, well written, but rushed and unfinished. But in KOTOR II, the plot is much worse impacted from its rushed nature. Even its restoration hasn't fixed all the problems.

This gave me a damn good laugh, mainly because KotOR II was done by Obsidian, a company which often goes out of their way to design morally gray storylines, whereas Bioware's first attempt was rather weak by comparison.

[txgoldrush]

Il Divo wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

And KOTOR II is in the same boat as DAII, well written, but rushed and unfinished. But in KOTOR II, the plot is much worse impacted from its rushed nature. Even its restoration hasn't fixed all the problems.

This gave me a damn good laugh, mainly because KotOR II was done by Obsidian, a company which often goes out of their way to design morally gray storylines, whereas Bioware's first attempt was rather weak by comparison.

How is KOTOR II morally grey?

Its not.

In fact, you are encouraged to play as black and white as possible to unlock special classes. And really whats grey about the coup storyline. One is clearly the good side and one is clearly the dark side. The only morally grey aspect is the antagonists viewpoints, thats it. The choices are black and white themselves.

[Il Divo]

txgoldrush wrote...

How is KOTOR II morally grey?

Its not.

In fact, you are encouraged to play as black and white as possible to unlock special classes. And really whats grey about the coup storyline. One is clearly the good side and one is clearly the dark side. The only morally grey aspect is the antagonists viewpoints, thats it. The choices are black and white themselves.

I'll have this discussion with you once you've actually had a conversation with Kreia.

[txgoldrush]

Il Divo wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

How is KOTOR II morally grey?

Its not.

In fact, you are encouraged to play as black and white as possible to unlock special classes. And really whats grey about the coup storyline. One is clearly the good side and one is clearly the dark side. The only morally grey aspect is the antagonists viewpoints, thats it. The choices are black and white themselves.

I'll have this discussion with you once you've actually had a conversation with Kreia.

Which I have, just because she is morally grey doesn't mean the story is. In fact the choices you make are black and white, nothing more. You can't even join Kreia at the end, you always fight her and then get the light side or dark side "ending". Mass Effect is more grey than KOTOR II is.

[por favor]

txgoldrush wrote...

a) Morrigan, which I calle dmore two dimensional in the first post only shows her softer side once you romance her and develop a significant bond at the end.

LOL I love what a hypocrite you are.

You say: "Well, Alistair CAN be King, therefore his role can be like Aragorn's" but you refuse to say "Morrigan CAN be soft, therefore her character can be unexpected."

So it's okay for you to label Alistair for something he CAN be, but it's not okay for me to label Morrigan for something she CAN be?

Make up your mind.

Actually the were expected, as soon as Morrigan was announced to be a love interest, I knew rhe Warden could soften her up.

Actually, when Isabela was announced, I knew she would have a "mature" side, so therefore she is not an unexpected character and your arguement is moot.

~*~*~logic*~*~

Zervan falling in love with the Warden...he ploughs everything, not unexpected.

Wait, what? Ploughing through everything = love? Did you miss the part where Zevran was raised in a wh&re house and didn't really know what love was? Did you miss the part where he wanted no emotional attachment to the Warden after sex because of how he was raised, but soon changed and fell in love with the Warden?

Oh the lulz. Go play DA:O again please. If your title of this thread isn't a sign that you haven't played it, your lack of comprehension for the game is.

c) Its nearly the same as every RPG, but in DAII you can also call your companion, tone of the character matters much more as they set his or her personality opening or closing hisor her choices. Its a much smarter system and one that keeps dialogue flowing.

wat

d0 When did I call DAII flawless? LOL

Maybe when you said "DA2 bashers" base their opinions on lies and criticize things that "aren't true"? LOL

[Rokky94]

This may be the best thread EVER! Please, continue.

[zeypher]

lol zevran ploughs everything?? doesnt that pretty much descrbe isabela as well.

[Yrkoon]

zeypher wrote...

lol zevran ploughs everything?? doesnt that pretty much descrbe isabela as well.

They're extremely similar characters.  And I'm pretty sure  they were  specifically designed to be.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 25 juin 2011 - 09:47 .

[txgoldrush]

por favor wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

a) Morrigan, which I calle dmore two dimensional in the first post only shows her softer side once you romance her and develop a significant bond at the end.

a) LOL I love what a hypocrite you are.

You say: "Well, Alistair CAN be King, therefore his role can be like Aragorn's" but you refuse to say "Morrigan CAN be soft, therefore her character can be unexpected."

So it's okay for you to label Alistair for something he CAN be, but it's not okay for me to label Morrigan for something she CAN be?

Make up your mind.

Actually the were expected, as soon as Morrigan was announced to be a love interest, I knew rhe Warden could soften her up.

Actually, when Isabela was announced, I knew she would have a "mature" side, so therefore she is not an unexpected character and your arguement is moot.

~*~*~logic*~*~

Zervan falling in love with the Warden...he ploughs everything, not unexpected.

Wait, what? Ploughing through everything = love? Did you miss the part where Zevran was raised in a wh&re house and didn't really know what love was? Did you miss the part where he wanted no emotional attachment to the Warden after sex because of how he was raised, but soon changed and fell in love with the Warden?

Oh the lulz. Go play DA:O again please. If your title of this thread isn't a sign that you haven't played it, your lack of comprehension for the game is.

c) Its nearly the same as every RPG, but in DAII you can also call your companion, tone of the character matters much more as they set his or her personality opening or closing hisor her choices. Its a much smarter system and one that keeps dialogue flowing.

C) wat

d0 When did I call DAII flawless? LOL

Maybe when you said "DA2 bashers" base their opinions on lies and criticize things that "aren't true"? LOL

a) Read again, I called her soft side "expected". I also called her in my original post more two dimesnional. Its plenty expected for a love interest to soften up due to the relationship, thats expected. What is more unexpected is something like Aveline and Isabela, where two opoosite personalitys, who remain opposite, grow with eachother and get along. And between Isabela and Morrigan, Isabela is the more multidimensional character.

and notice how he goes back to banging everything in DAII, he really doesn't develop. And you can compare Isabela to Zervan as well, Isabela is easily the more multidimensional character. She grows and changes, he doesn't. Not only can you get her to love you, you can change her ways as well. Zervan is far more shallow, and except for the romance, one dimensional...even less dimensions that Morrigan, who may change her views.

C) Ever tried to convince Gascand away from blood magic as a sarcastic character...oh wait, you can't.

[txgoldrush]

Yrkoon wrote...

zeypher wrote...

lol zevran ploughs everything?? doesnt that pretty much descrbe isabela as well.

They're extremely similar characters.  And I'm pretty sure  they were  specifically designed to be.

yes, with one difference...Isabela can change and develop as a character, Zervan doesn't.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 25 juin 2011 - 09:51 .

[por favor]

zeypher wrote...

lol zevran ploughs everything?? doesnt that pretty much descrbe isabela as well.

LOL I KNOW

[zeypher]

lol change, that why she pretty much screwed you till the end of chapter 2. Thats great

[por favor]

txgoldrush wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

zeypher wrote...

lol zevran ploughs everything?? doesnt that pretty much descrbe isabela as well.

They're extremely similar characters.  And I'm pretty sure  they were  specifically designed to be.

yes, with one difference...Isabela can change, Zervan doesn't.

Zevran can change too

lol seriously, GO PLAY THE GAME

Modifié par por favor, 25 juin 2011 - 09:52 .

[Yrkoon]

txgoldrush wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

zeypher wrote...

lol zevran ploughs everything?? doesnt that pretty much descrbe isabela as well.

They're extremely similar characters.  And I'm pretty sure  they were  specifically designed to be.

yes, with one difference...Isabela can change, Zervan doesn't.

He doesn't? 

So you missed the whole:  "THE GREY WARDEN DIES HERE!"  to  "lets f*ck, my delicious warden love kitten!"  transformation?

Yeah ok.  Sure, you've played DA:O.  wink, wink.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 25 juin 2011 - 09:56 .

[FJVP]

txgoldrush wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

zeypher wrote...

lol zevran ploughs everything?? doesnt that pretty much descrbe isabela as well.

They're extremely similar characters.  And I'm pretty sure  they were  specifically designed to be.

yes, with one difference...Isabela can change, Zervan doesn't.

I must've missed the part where he thanks you for freeing him from the Crows and acknowledges you as a true friend, then. And unless that you rival Isabela she doesn't "change" either.

[ItsTheTruth]

Hey I know, OP, can you tell me why Hawke's mother is a great character with superb character development?