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[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

txgoldrush wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

I don't know if you want to go through the "show", not "tell" path with Dragon Age 2. It's rife with it.

Thin Veil, Templars not attacking Magic users, Hawke earning a reputation/minor characters suddenly knowing you, etc.

which they show as well as tell in your first two examples and the third as a result of the frame narrative.

See, here's my beef. It's a game, not a book or movie.

I consider gameplay primary and everything else secondary. What I play through is different to what I watch, and whenever I see a cinematic of any of those aspects happening, it feels more like visual narration as opposed to showing me. That is done through gameplay. Valve are masters at this.

Let me use an example. Fallout's Deathclaw's are reputed to be powerful SOBs. Whether I am told by an NPC that they are powerful NPCs or whether I watch a cutscene of some dude getting mauled by one is irrelevant. I want the game to show me through the gameplay, if I walk up to a Deathclaw, I want it to maul me to pieces.

Because then I see it's power first hand. I know it, I fear it and I respect it. It's good storytelling, simply by making the monsters in gameplay equivalent to how it is in the narrative.

I am told that Templars attack, arrest and abuse Mages. Through dialog or cutscenes, doesn't matter. But when I run up to a group of them, get into a fight and use Blood Mage in their face, they do nothing. I am not shown what I have been told.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 25 juin 2011 - 07:00 .

[txgoldrush]

Yrkoon wrote...

Oh indeed. Just like Morrigan. She's not part of DA: O's story at all. And Neither is Alistair! I mean, if you ignore the whole King's son thing LOL

Bizzarro argument is bizzare. Good job OP.

You need to learn to read, in my first post, I basically said Alistair and Morrigan are the only ones to contribute to the plot.

[erynnar]

txgoldrush wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

chunkyman wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
While every idea for a story is basically written already, but then then there is the blantant ripoff. Thats different.

DAO pales in comparison to the likes of The Witcher when it comes to tough choices or even the Mass Effect games for that matter. The tough choice in the Sacred Ashes quest can even be weaseled out.

And DAII chocies were tougher than DAO ones, much more morally ambigious. The political turmoil is better as well and the companions actually participate in the story unlike in Origins. In fact Fenris is the only companion that doesn't involve themself in the main story. in DAO, take out any character other than Alistair and morrigan and the story doesn't change. They are just "there".

I really don't see DA:O as a blatant ripoff... and I'm a pretty good ripoff detector. I don't even remember any real choices in DA2 other than the final one, everything felt like it had no consequences. Companions in DA:O were a story in their own right, independent of the conflict happening in Fereldan. Companions in DA2 felt shallow and I didn't care what happened to them.

Like who you send in the Deep Roads isn't a significant choice? That one will alter the flow of the endgame if Bethany or Carver is in it. Instead of big picture consquences, DAII had more significant side story consquences.

And how is DAO not a LOTR's ripoff? Its almost the third book retold witht he Warden himself as the ring.

DAII characters are far from shallow...instead of being talking codex entries, they get three persoanl quests each. I likehow the SHOW, not TELL, their story.

What?!?!?!
Oh my god...

then how is it not a LOTR's ripoff? I still have not got an answer.

i was refering to how you said they SHOW not TELL, cause i can barely get any information at all out of the characters themselves in the quest and in their talks.

sometimes the present is more important than their backstory.....

however they do give you all you need to know about them when it comes to the quests.Instead of having them be standing codex entries, they give you their depth when its necessary to do so. And many cases, party banter reveales much about them.

Not to mention they CONTRIBUTE to the story, unlike their DAO counterparts. In fact Leliana contributes more to DAII than she does in DAO!!!!!

Okay, so far I have a lot of your opinion, but no examples to back it up. Please, show me, don't tell me. And I might be willing to entertain your point of view. So far I see you stating your opinion like fact but little substance.

[Yrkoon]

Wait a minute. Has the OP even Played DA:O?

[csfteeeer]

txgoldrush wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

chunkyman wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
While every idea for a story is basically written already, but then then there is the blantant ripoff. Thats different.

DAO pales in comparison to the likes of The Witcher when it comes to tough choices or even the Mass Effect games for that matter. The tough choice in the Sacred Ashes quest can even be weaseled out.

And DAII chocies were tougher than DAO ones, much more morally ambigious. The political turmoil is better as well and the companions actually participate in the story unlike in Origins. In fact Fenris is the only companion that doesn't involve themself in the main story. in DAO, take out any character other than Alistair and morrigan and the story doesn't change. They are just "there".

I really don't see DA:O as a blatant ripoff... and I'm a pretty good ripoff detector. I don't even remember any real choices in DA2 other than the final one, everything felt like it had no consequences. Companions in DA:O were a story in their own right, independent of the conflict happening in Fereldan. Companions in DA2 felt shallow and I didn't care what happened to them.

Like who you send in the Deep Roads isn't a significant choice? That one will alter the flow of the endgame if Bethany or Carver is in it. Instead of big picture consquences, DAII had more significant side story consquences.

And how is DAO not a LOTR's ripoff? Its almost the third book retold witht he Warden himself as the ring.

DAII characters are far from shallow...instead of being talking codex entries, they get three persoanl quests each. I likehow the SHOW, not TELL, their story.

What?!?!?!
Oh my god...

then how is it not a LOTR's ripoff? I still have not got an answer.

i was refering to how you said they SHOW not TELL, cause i can barely get any information at all out of the characters themselves in the quest and in their talks.

sometimes the present is more important than their backstory.....

however they do give you all you need to know about them when it comes to the quests.Instead of having them be standing codex entries, they give you their depth when its necessary to do so. And many cases, party banter reveales much about them.

Not to mention they CONTRIBUTE to the story, unlike their DAO counterparts. In fact Leliana contributes more to DAII than she does in DAO!!!!!

HOW???!?!?!
The only ones who actually contribute are Varric, Anders and Isabela, and she is debatable cause you can simply NOT Recruit her, and it's still the same

Fenris? no
Merrill? no , she revives Flemeth, which would have been important if Flemeth had any F****ng relevance in the story or plot after saving Hawke, but no, she's just a sequel bait.
Sebastian? no
Bethany/Carver? they are just a sub-plot, disguised as a main arc, but they are not.
Aveline? barely, in fact, no, cause she only contributes in asking you, A CIVILIAN ( s****iest Guard ever), to help her with the Qunari thing, but that could have also happen with Viscount, or the original captain, so no, not important (not to mention Hawke would get envolved because he always do)

but that's not one of my complaints cause i know the Origins characters don't add to the plot (yes, PLOT, there is a difference between Plot and Story), so i don't care about this.

Modifié par csfteeeer, 25 juin 2011 - 07:04 .

[Chiramu]

The only thing that seems very much like TLOTRs would be the fact that the darkspawn to resemble the goblins and orcs of Tolkiens world.

Origins was more of an ambitious project IMO though, and the writers merely ran out of time to do everything (at least I hope so, I've played it enough times to know where mistakes were made in the creation of the thing).

Just remember that Origins has 6 different heroes to play the game through with. That should have equaled to 6 sort of separate and cohesive story lines at the same time. But that all gets lost in transmission, I hope from the fact that time had run out.

[Dormiglione]

Yrkoon wrote...

Wait a minute. Has the OP even Played DA:O?

Thats a good Question.

[txgoldrush]

Dormiglione wrote...

Dormiglione wrote...

@OP
Cant remember that people said: "DAO is perfect, no flaws, no bugs,.." DAO has its flaws yes, nobody denies it.

Sten: is a very deep character. Take him with you through the whole campaign and he will tell amazing story's and details about the qunari society.
Morrigan, Alistair, Leliana, Shale are very good written companions. Dont know who you could miss their personality. Every main quests of DAO brings you to complete new areas with a lot of lore. Some of them are better connected and some less connected to the final quest.

There are things that DAO did better than DA2 and of course, there are things that DA2 did better than DAO. . Its absolute ok If you like DA2 more than DAO.

DAO is overrated? Hmmm, you know a lot of people love DAO. Its not always about technical specs, some game just finds a place in the heart of a player, regardless how many flaws that it has.

txgoldrush wrote...
Sten a deep character? Not really....after his personal story, he is just a library on Qunari. Tali was the same way in the first Mass Effect, a library on Quarians, nothing more. She became deep and special in the sequel however as she gained more dimensions.

a) This is your side of view about Sten. Sten regrets that he killed the innocent farmers. He panicked about the loss of his sword (his soul). He likes flowers, butterflies, paintings and the very most important: He likes cookies!

txgoldrush wrote...
Leliana I have already called one of Bioware's best.

Yes, much better than in DA2.

txgoldrush wrote...
Alistair, not really a well written companion, especially after he leaves if you spare Loghain, what a baby.

Here we go. You didnt like his decision. Same here, i didnt liked his decision, his attitude, but this has nothing to do with the character design of Alistair. This was his character, if Alistair had agreed without objection to spare Loghain and make him a grey warden, then i had said, yes, not well written character. But it wasnt the case. He had a unique character.

txgoldrush wrote...
Morrigan is really a wait and see, she has untapped potential and needs growth. Shale is interesting, but not important.

c) If you put it that way. Who besides of Varric was important, not interesting, important in DA2?

txgoldrush wrote...
Lore is nice, but you have to put it together. DAO really fails at this. DAO is  a mish mash of ideas more than it is a complete story.

d) Strange, thats not my perception of DAO's Lore.

a) still not a very deep character and basically a Sagacious Zu clone.

Its because it has no logic to it...he was all for killing darkspawn an dstopping the blight but then his character suddenly changes because I sapred Loghain, its bad writing. The Sebastain vs Anders moment is far better done than Loghain vs Alistair.

c) Everyone but Fenris contributes one way to the main plot, and we already see Act II suffers without Isabela.

d) Other than the darkspawn and the wardens, what lore is essential to the main plot? This seperates the well written games like The Witcher 2 and Fallout New Vegas to the poorly written ones like DAO.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 25 juin 2011 - 07:04 .

[Yrkoon]

txgoldrush wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Oh indeed. Just like Morrigan. She's not part of DA: O's story at all. And Neither is Alistair! I mean, if you ignore the whole King's son thing LOL

Bizzarro argument is bizzare. Good job OP.

You need to learn to read, in my first post, I basically said Alistair and Morrigan are the only ones to contribute to the plot.

And you need to refresh your memory.  Oghren contributes to the Plot  (he's Branka's hubby).  Logain, another party member, contributes to the plot  (he's one of the friggin primary antagonists of the game for Fcks sake).    Zevren contributes to the plot  (he's the crow assassin hired to kill the  surviving gray wardens.)

We can go on and on, but at this point, you've yet to even prove you've  even played DA:O.  And there's NOTHING  I hate more than people who try to discredit games they've never even played.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 25 juin 2011 - 07:08 .

[Warheadz]

txgoldrush wrote...
Its because it has no logic to it...he was all for killing darkspawn an dstopping the blight but then his character suddenly changes because I sapred Loghain, its bad writing. The Sebastain vs Anders moment is far better done than Loghain vs Alistair.

Hello, my fellow forumites. I just came to drop in a pointless and unproductive "Lol, are you high?"- comment for that reply. Thank you.

[chunkyman]

txgoldrush wrote...

 This seperates the well written games like The Witcher 2 and Fallout New Vegas to the poorly written ones like DAO.

Poorly written?!?!?! DA:O is hands down one of the best written games ever made!

[txgoldrush]

csfteeeer wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

chunkyman wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
While every idea for a story is basically written already, but then then there is the blantant ripoff. Thats different.

DAO pales in comparison to the likes of The Witcher when it comes to tough choices or even the Mass Effect games for that matter. The tough choice in the Sacred Ashes quest can even be weaseled out.

And DAII chocies were tougher than DAO ones, much more morally ambigious. The political turmoil is better as well and the companions actually participate in the story unlike in Origins. In fact Fenris is the only companion that doesn't involve themself in the main story. in DAO, take out any character other than Alistair and morrigan and the story doesn't change. They are just "there".

I really don't see DA:O as a blatant ripoff... and I'm a pretty good ripoff detector. I don't even remember any real choices in DA2 other than the final one, everything felt like it had no consequences. Companions in DA:O were a story in their own right, independent of the conflict happening in Fereldan. Companions in DA2 felt shallow and I didn't care what happened to them.

Like who you send in the Deep Roads isn't a significant choice? That one will alter the flow of the endgame if Bethany or Carver is in it. Instead of big picture consquences, DAII had more significant side story consquences.

And how is DAO not a LOTR's ripoff? Its almost the third book retold witht he Warden himself as the ring.

DAII characters are far from shallow...instead of being talking codex entries, they get three persoanl quests each. I likehow the SHOW, not TELL, their story.

What?!?!?!
Oh my god...

then how is it not a LOTR's ripoff? I still have not got an answer.

i was refering to how you said they SHOW not TELL, cause i can barely get any information at all out of the characters themselves in the quest and in their talks.

sometimes the present is more important than their backstory.....

however they do give you all you need to know about them when it comes to the quests.Instead of having them be standing codex entries, they give you their depth when its necessary to do so. And many cases, party banter reveales much about them.

Not to mention they CONTRIBUTE to the story, unlike their DAO counterparts. In fact Leliana contributes more to DAII than she does in DAO!!!!!

HOW???!?!?!
The only ones who actually contribute are Varric, Anders and Isabela, and she is debatable cause you can simply NOT Recruit her, and it's still the same

Fenris? no
Merrill? no , she revives Flemeth, which would have been important if Flemeth had any F****ng relevance in the story or plot after saving Hawke, but no, she's just a sequel bait.
Sebastian? no
Bethany/Carver? they are just a sub-plot, disguised as a main arc, but they are not.
Aveline? barely, in fact, no, cause she only contributes in asking you, A CIVILIAN ( s****iest Guard ever), to help her with the Qunari thing, but that could have also happen with Viscount, or the original captain, so no, not important (not to mention Hawke would get envolved because he always do)

but that's not one of my complaints cause i know the Origins characters don't add to the plot (yes, PLOT, there is a difference between Plot and Story), so i don't care about this.

already said Fenris is the exception.

Flemeth is more than sequel bait...she also gives Hawke the advice to live by and his goal. To embrace destiny in the time of change.

Sebastian - yes, and sets up a new dimension in the decision on how to deal with Anders

Aveline - serves as a close confidant to the Hawkes throughout the story

Act II is much weaker if Isabela is not present, she is the reason why the Qunari are there.

DAO is the only Bioware game where most of the cast doesn't play a role in the story, thats weak.

[csfteeeer]

chunkyman wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

 This seperates the well written games like The Witcher 2 and Fallout New Vegas to the poorly written ones like DAO.

Poorly written?!?!?! DA:O is hands down one of the best written games ever made!

hmmm
well i wouldn't really say the Best ever but it was certainly very well written, cause even if a story is cliched, if you can make that interesting, then you have written it well.

[Persephone]

chunkyman wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

 This seperates the well written games like The Witcher 2 and Fallout New Vegas to the poorly written ones like DAO.

Poorly written?!?!?! DA:O is hands down one of the best written games ever made!

Really............NOT.

And I love DAO.

When it comes to the writing, an oldie like Might and Magic VII makes DAO look like child's play. 

[txgoldrush]

Yrkoon wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Oh indeed. Just like Morrigan. She's not part of DA: O's story at all. And Neither is Alistair! I mean, if you ignore the whole King's son thing LOL

Bizzarro argument is bizzare. Good job OP.

You need to learn to read, in my first post, I basically said Alistair and Morrigan are the only ones to contribute to the plot.

And you need to refresh your memory.  Oghren contributes to the Plot  (he's Branka's hubby).  Logain, another party member, contributes to the plot  (he's one of the friggin primary antagonists of the game for Fcks sake).    Zevren contributes to the plot  (he's the crow assassin hired to kill the  surviving gray wardens.)

We can go on and on, but at this point, you've yet to even prove you've  even played DA:O.  And there's NOTHING  I hate more than people who try to discredit games they've never even played.

very insignificant minor roles....thats it. Oghren has one moment in a sub plot, thats it. Loghain is also the antagonist, Zervan only serves the plot briefly, thats it.

Far less important than what Varric, Anders, Aveline, and Isabela contribute to DAII.

[csfteeeer]

txgoldrush wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

chunkyman wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
While every idea for a story is basically written already, but then then there is the blantant ripoff. Thats different.

DAO pales in comparison to the likes of The Witcher when it comes to tough choices or even the Mass Effect games for that matter. The tough choice in the Sacred Ashes quest can even be weaseled out.

And DAII chocies were tougher than DAO ones, much more morally ambigious. The political turmoil is better as well and the companions actually participate in the story unlike in Origins. In fact Fenris is the only companion that doesn't involve themself in the main story. in DAO, take out any character other than Alistair and morrigan and the story doesn't change. They are just "there".

I really don't see DA:O as a blatant ripoff... and I'm a pretty good ripoff detector. I don't even remember any real choices in DA2 other than the final one, everything felt like it had no consequences. Companions in DA:O were a story in their own right, independent of the conflict happening in Fereldan. Companions in DA2 felt shallow and I didn't care what happened to them.

Like who you send in the Deep Roads isn't a significant choice? That one will alter the flow of the endgame if Bethany or Carver is in it. Instead of big picture consquences, DAII had more significant side story consquences.

And how is DAO not a LOTR's ripoff? Its almost the third book retold witht he Warden himself as the ring.

DAII characters are far from shallow...instead of being talking codex entries, they get three persoanl quests each. I likehow the SHOW, not TELL, their story.

What?!?!?!
Oh my god...

then how is it not a LOTR's ripoff? I still have not got an answer.

i was refering to how you said they SHOW not TELL, cause i can barely get any information at all out of the characters themselves in the quest and in their talks.

sometimes the present is more important than their backstory.....

however they do give you all you need to know about them when it comes to the quests.Instead of having them be standing codex entries, they give you their depth when its necessary to do so. And many cases, party banter reveales much about them.

Not to mention they CONTRIBUTE to the story, unlike their DAO counterparts. In fact Leliana contributes more to DAII than she does in DAO!!!!!

HOW???!?!?!
The only ones who actually contribute are Varric, Anders and Isabela, and she is debatable cause you can simply NOT Recruit her, and it's still the same

Fenris? no
Merrill? no , she revives Flemeth, which would have been important if Flemeth had any F****ng relevance in the story or plot after saving Hawke, but no, she's just a sequel bait.
Sebastian? no
Bethany/Carver? they are just a sub-plot, disguised as a main arc, but they are not.
Aveline? barely, in fact, no, cause she only contributes in asking you, A CIVILIAN ( s****iest Guard ever), to help her with the Qunari thing, but that could have also happen with Viscount, or the original captain, so no, not important (not to mention Hawke would get envolved because he always do)

but that's not one of my complaints cause i know the Origins characters don't add to the plot (yes, PLOT, there is a difference between Plot and Story), so i don't care about this.

already said Fenris is the exception.

Flemeth is more than sequel bait...she also gives Hawke the advice to live by and his goal. To embrace destiny in the time of change.

Sebastian - yes, and sets up a new dimension in the decision on how to deal with Anders

Aveline - serves as a close confidant to the Hawkes throughout the story

Act II is much weaker if Isabela is not present, she is the reason why the Qunari are there.

DAO is the only Bioware game where most of the cast doesn't play a role in the story, thats weak.

you didn't read the part where i said, there is a difference between plot and story did you?
all the characters contribute to the story, But to the plot, NO.

also

how the hell is Flemeth saying "take care, bro" any important at all?
i can see you're trying too hard.
Edited..... i think i made a mistake.

Modifié par csfteeeer, 25 juin 2011 - 07:17 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

chunkyman wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

 This seperates the well written games like The Witcher 2 and Fallout New Vegas to the poorly written ones like DAO.

Poorly written?!?!?! DA:O is hands down one of the best written games ever made!

I disagree. It's got decent writing, especially for a video game, but it's no Planescape: Torment or Bloodlines. While I think that Bloodlines doesn't have the level of "philosophical" or "mature" depth that Witcher 2 or Planescape in their writing, it "fit" the setting and narrative like a glove. This was only helped by high quality of voice acting for most characters.

Writing for Origins is similar in quality to the Baldur's Gate games. Some really good, some bad but overall quite solid.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 25 juin 2011 - 07:14 .

[FieryDove]

Yrkoon wrote...

(snip)
We can go on and on, but at this point, you've yet to even prove you've  even played DA:O.  And there's NOTHING  I hate more than people who try to discredit games they've never even played.

Its a ruse your grace, DA2's uberness was mocked to set people against DAO.

Persephone wrote...

Really............NOT.

And I love DAO.
When it comes to the writing, an oldie like Might and Magic VII makes DAO look like child's play. 

As much as I love the M&M games, they don't have Cheese wheels or Dog in it. Big nono since I'm spoiled now.

Ah the days of games with so much text to make one head spin...gone.

Modifié par FieryDove, 25 juin 2011 - 07:17 .

[Icinix]

Its all personal opinions.

Both games have flaws, both games have beautiful gems.

It just depends on the individual as to which are the more obvious.

As long as people don't start disregarding peoples opinions just as nostalgia, or because they're just plain wrong, everyone will hug, smile, kiss and be merry with their celebrated differences in likes and dislikes.

[csfteeeer]

Persephone wrote...

chunkyman wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

 This seperates the well written games like The Witcher 2 and Fallout New Vegas to the poorly written ones like DAO.

Poorly written?!?!?! DA:O is hands down one of the best written games ever made!

Really............NOT.

And I love DAO.

When it comes to the writing, an oldie like Might and Magic VII makes DAO look like child's play. 

M&M7?!?!?!?!
Seriously?!?!?!

[txgoldrush]

Persephone wrote...

chunkyman wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

 This seperates the well written games like The Witcher 2 and Fallout New Vegas to the poorly written ones like DAO.

Poorly written?!?!?! DA:O is hands down one of the best written games ever made!

Really............NOT.

And I love DAO.

When it comes to the writing, an oldie like Might and Magic VII makes DAO look like child's play. 

yep....and Heroes of Might and Magic IV (the worst Heroes game, but the best written one).

Add Planescape Torment, The Witcher, Vampire TM: Bloodlines, NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer, Arcanum, both Mass Effects, Fallout New Vegas, Baldur's Gate II even Alpha Protocol.

At least DAO is better written than Oblivion...lol...oh wait, Shivering Isles was better written then DAO too.

[phoenixgoddess27]

As I said, this thread isn't going to end well.

Children will be children.

[Yrkoon]

txgoldrush wrote...


Flemeth is more than sequel bait...she also gives Hawke the advice to live by and his goal. To embrace destiny in the time of change.

Well, if "destiny = this is  what's going to happen to you; and you have no choice in the matter", then I'd agree.  Not only is Flemeth a vital fixture to DA2, but she's   a developer's WARNING SIGN to players that this is not a game where your choices will matter at all.

But really, she's just sequel bait.  She didn't even need to be in the story at all.  Hawke and family were already on their way to Kirkwall before they met Flemeth.  And most players were going to  explore the Dalish camp map anyway, even if they didn't need to.  So.... what's the point of Flemeth being  in the game  in the first place?  That's right - Nothing.  Cheap continuity device and nothing more.

Now compare that to her purpose in DA:O  --- when we SEE the warden get overrun by darkspawn at the top of the tower.    When we're Resting at her hut after being saved from DEATH.  And when  she *specifically* tells us about the Archdemon threat, and *specifically* tells us that we need to raise an army, and when she *specifically* gives us  a mage as a companion.... a mage that knows where we need to go next.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 25 juin 2011 - 07:22 .

[Persephone]

csfteeeer wrote...

Persephone wrote...

chunkyman wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

 This seperates the well written games like The Witcher 2 and Fallout New Vegas to the poorly written ones like DAO.

Poorly written?!?!?! DA:O is hands down one of the best written games ever made!

Really............NOT.

And I love DAO.

When it comes to the writing, an oldie like Might and Magic VII makes DAO look like child's play. 

M&M7?!?!?!?!
Seriously?!?!?!

Yes. Especially the so called Dark Path. (I love both but DAMN!) 

[txgoldrush]

Yrkoon wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...


Flemeth is more than sequel bait...she also gives Hawke the advice to live by and his goal. To embrace destiny in the time of change.

Well, if "destiny = this is  what's going to happen to you; and you have no choice in the matter", then I'd agree.  Not only is Flemeth a vital fixture to DA2, but she's  nothing but a developer's WARNING SIGN to players that this is not a game where your choices will matter at all.

But really, she's just sequel bait.  She didn't even need to be in the story at all.  Hawke and family were already on their way to Kirkwall before they met Flemeth.  And most players were going to  explore the Dalish camp map anyway, even if they didn't need to.  So.... what's the point of Flemeth being  in the game  in the first place?  That's right - Nothing.  Cheap continuity device and nothing more.

and what RPGs have choices that matter in game? Very few. Its window dressing. In DAO, it just effects the ending card you get nothing more. Nothing profound, and much of it is retconned by Awakenings and DAII anyway.
Sometimes the plot needs direction and Flemeth does provide this with giving Hawke key advice. Not every plot element requires choice. Can you save King Foltest in TW2? No..he always dies. Can you save triss before she is kidnapped? No Can you not kill the Kayran? Nope. And really TW2 endings are just as similiar as DAII's, with choices more affecting the future than present.

Flemth gives Hawke a goal and saves his or her life just like she saves The Warden and gives him or her a purpose. Their roles are the same in both games, to give the hero a purpose. In DAII, its much more subtle however.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 25 juin 2011 - 07:27 .