585 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

phoenixgoddess27 wrote...
To be fair, it was the same with the Bone Pit. You could "acquire" it, but can't do crap with it.

You can get people killed for nothing and go broke because of Hawke's business sense.

[TEWR]

True. At least now I can use it to store armor until it tiers up and I can sell it for a profit



And I probably shouldn't nitpick, but how does a chest store hundreds of items? Weapons, armor, potions, etc..

[Erode_The_Soul]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

True. At least now I can use it to store armor until it tiers up and I can sell it for a profit



And I probably shouldn't nitpick, but how does a chest store hundreds of items? Weapons, armor, potions, etc..

By using the same Jedi-hand-wave trick that allows you and your companions to do the same whilst traveling and fighting

[KnightofPhoenix]

It should have been more like Assassin's Creed 2. That game had a wonderful Villa system that you could upgrade, for little reason other than just it being fun and providing you with more income. But it was great.

Now if that was what we had for Vigil's keep, it would have been fun, but also with a purpose other than just income. And what you upgrade could have had an impact on the outcome of the battle.

[TEWR]

nah I established on another thread that they shove the backpacks and items up their asses.

It explains how Jory can pull a longsword out of nowhere when I make him do a strip-Joining.

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

nah I established on another thread that they shove the backpacks and items up their asses.

It explains how Jory can pull a longsword out of nowhere when I make him do a strip-Joining.

According to Shale, she's the one who carries the inventory in DA:O.

[phoenixgoddess27]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

You can get people killed for nothing and go broke because of Hawke's business sense.

I'm referring to after everyone is massacred by the terrible business partners' choices. You can choose to keep the Bone Pit for yourself, but... you can't do anything with it. Which left me no way to prove the Orlesian terrible partner wrong
It's hard to protect everyone when in the end... everyone is killed.
I personally would have moved my people to a new location after the ginormous spider.

Did Hawke buy their estate or was it built specifically for them? I could have sworn it was the latter... in which, I would have loved to have an armory since well... they're a Champion. The weapons you store could have gone there. I just don't see how I can stuff so many greatswords and staffs in such a tiny, itty bitty chest.
Both games did that, actually.

Modifié par phoenixgoddess27, 27 juin 2011 - 05:05 .

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

nah I established on another thread that they shove the backpacks and items up their asses.

It explains how Jory can pull a longsword out of nowhere when I make him do a strip-Joining.

According to Shale, she's the one who carries the inventory in DA:O.

Isn't that what makes her angry? Being made the lackey? Doesn't that make her wanna squeeze a head until it goes "Squiiiissshhh...."?


I thought she was joking actually about carrying the inventory.

[In Exile]

billy the squid wrote...
It handles the information in a similar way yes. However, unless one sides with Meredith in Act 3 you do not get the additional information regarding her back story through dialogue options which provides a better context to her character.

I never sided with Meredith in Act 3. You get even more background if you side with her? Well, to me, that reinforces my point, because you're talking to someone who only sided with the mages.

Who said anything about screen time? Loghain's motivations for the betrayal at Ostagar are at least hinted at right at the beginning and the cutscenes simply allow players to follow his actions and his ongoing problems with the Bannorn whilst the player is engaged in the recruitment of characters. The fact that Loghain appears more often through the game is neither here nor there. As long as his actions in the period are at least alluded to and his subsequent shift in character and reasoning for actions are expounded upon, such as the circle quest line and redcliff, I don't think it really matter whether he appears on screen or not. That is not to say that it was handled perfectly as it wasn't.

If ''alluding'' to actions is enough, then what Varric narrates from Act I - Act II has to count as enough, and certainly the multiple codex entries that you find on templar politics in Kirkwall count, beyond the actual apperances of Meredith.

More generally, Loghain has no hints about his motives at Ostagar. He says that Cailan needs to be ''ammenable to reason'' - but not any kind of characterization (and is available only if you have ranks in persuade), and he even has an outright evil villain speech right when walking away from the war council. If you look at Loghain at Ostagar, he might as well have just tattooed 'Villain'' on his forehead.

If you're using other quests where motives are alluded to, then certainly Act of Mercy counts as characterization for Meredith, as do the statements that the mages you talk to at the Gallows, as does the written missive from Ser Alrik and the comments that Anders makes.

From what I can remember the information one is given about Meredith at the begining of the game is fairly superficial, Only when you talk to cullen and Meredith herself in Act 3 do you gain more details other than the templars are cracking down on mages and Kirkwall is their power base in the Free marches which as far as plot details don't really lend themselves to giving making Meredith more interesting.

It's not superficial (ETA: that is, if this is your standard for what not superifical is re: DA:O). We find out a lot about the situation in Kirkwall. We find out about the treatment of mages. Thrask tasks about her politics and the politics of the templars. Like I said: we find out early that the templars control the power of Kirkwall. We have codex entries on this. We learn that the Kirkwall Circle is particularly restrictive. We see what Meredith does with the Starkhaven mages (either Act I or Act II). We see her personally in Act II. We then see the fallout of her policies in Act III and we hear what she does with the mages that rebelled in Act III even if you side with Orsino and the mages, and again in dialogue with her when she gives you her first mission and we see her reaction to what Hawke does with the escaped mages.

True enough we were not given a biography of Loghain's life in DAO, but we were given enough information to determine that there is a conflict between the king and Loghain, dependant on the Orlesians, the darkspawn and the coming battle, and further information is given throughout the game.

And in DA2 we are given enough to know about the situation of the mages in Kirkwall, their escapes and tension (and the influx from Starkhaven), the fact that there are bloodmage conspiracies against the templars, that Meredith is tough (from Cullen, Thrask and the other mages) but not outright insane (from her refusal of the Tranquil Solution). And that's off the top of my head.

DA2 failed to do a good job with Meredith. But DA:O did not really add colour to Loghain.
 

Loghain's machinations after ostagar are still present throughout the game in the various quests, ie: the circle where we learn that he promised Uldred greater freedom, As such Logahin's involvement throughout the game is illustrated through this even though he is not involved in the quest.

Meredith's actions permeated all of DA2. Viscount Dumar, who was weak and ineffective, was appointed by her. The entire qunari line in Act II is a result of that. Her crackdowns lead to blood mages like Quentin and Tarohne in Enemies Among Us. The abuse of Grace and the Starkhaven mages is enabled by her. Hawke becomes champion in part due to her actions that allow Hawke to enter the Viscount's Keep. The mage-templar rebellion in Act III is a result of what she does.

If 'involvement' in the quests counts, Meredith had that in droves.

DAO was not disjointed rather the individual sub quests are loosely linked by an overarching theme to stop the blight, although it could have been handled better, only some of them have additional details linking it to the political turmoil in Ferelden. In addition it would be jarring for those factions you seek aid from to simply say yes without any caveats it would also make the game completely pointless, so one has to depart from the plot to a degree to secure the alliances, although they remain linked to the ongoing plot.

If this thin excuse of a connection counts, then DA2 was very well connected.

DA2's seperate acts cause problems as Act 3 focuses on Meredith and the mage Templar conflict, but the preceeding acts have little to do with this, which makes the game feel disjointed, we are given information by cullen, but there is very little exposition regarding Meredith until Act 3 only the dislike of Templars and Mages. Meredith would have benefited with more time to explore her character and the politics in Kirkwall outside of Act 3.

That's not true. Act I enables Meredith's breakdown in Act III due to the lyrium idol, the Enemies Among Us quest and the Act of Mercy quest. Act I also enables Hawke's role in the qunari action through the Blackpowder Promise quest line. Act II establishes Hawke's position and how Meredith and the templars came to rule the city without any resistance. And Act III shows the consequence of the Starkhaven mages, the tension between the mages and templars, the role of the lyrium idol Hawke uncovered to become wealthy and the start of the Thedas changing war.

All of that is ''connected'' if we use the flimsly ''connection'' in DA:O. This is why DA:O's praise led to DA2.

Modifié par In Exile, 27 juin 2011 - 05:42 .

[In Exile]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

One thing I didn't like about Origins was how we could "acquire" our own fortress.

Soldier's Peak was useless after the quest. Even worse, you can't recruit anybody in the game, even those who volunteer. I really wanted to recruit Seweryn the Dwarf since he wanted to join. And Jowan.

One would think that with your own fortress you could use that as another base of operations. Instead it's entirely useless even with a mended Veil.

The really confusing thing was why you would stuff it with Drydens and even want to use it as a Warden base if you hated the entire order. Ah, but then DA:O didn't let you do anything other than love and adore the Wardens after Ostagar anyway. +1 for roleplaying ''freedom''

[Uzzy]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

It should have been more like Assassin's Creed 2. That game had a wonderful Villa system that you could upgrade, for little reason other than just it being fun and providing you with more income. But it was great.

Now if that was what we had for Vigil's keep, it would have been fun, but also with a purpose other than just income. And what you upgrade could have had an impact on the outcome of the battle.

Strange how Assassins's Creed 2 made me feel more like I had 'Power' over an area then a game where the 'Rise to Power' was a main feature. Just another thing DAII did badly wrong, perhaps?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Uzzy wrote...
Strange how Assassins's Creed 2 made me feel more like I had 'Power' over an area then a game where the 'Rise to Power' was a main feature. Just another thing DAII did badly wrong, perhaps?

It didn't even try to do it for it to do it badly.

[standardpack]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

nah I established on another thread that they shove the backpacks and items up their asses.

It explains how Jory can pull a longsword out of nowhere when I make him do a strip-Joining.

 
I KNEW it!!!  It also eplains how the warden gets his murder knife out when he doesn't have anything on.

[standardpack]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

nah I established on another thread that they shove the backpacks and items up their asses.

It explains how Jory can pull a longsword out of nowhere when I make him do a strip-Joining.

According to Shale, she's the one who carries the inventory in DA:O.

Isn't that what makes her angry? Being made the lackey? Doesn't that make her wanna squeeze a head until it goes "Squiiiissshhh...."?


I thought she was joking actually about carrying the inventory.

But how'd they carry their stuff before they met Shale Hmmmmmm?

[phoenixgoddess27]

standardpack wrote...
 
I KNEW it!!!  It also eplains how the warden gets his murder knife out when he doesn't have anything on.

Hawke can do the same.

Murder knife appears from the spine or  ripcage apparently.

[TEWR]

asspacks.

Convenient and functional!



But incredibly stinky....

[Funkjoker]

@ Phoenix and Ethereal

1 year ago I made a post about the disappointment Vigil Keep is for us players.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/127/index/2530907

In short: the lack of interaction and the lack of any information about some of your decisions given is just... inacceptable.
For example: When you are to decide the fate of some people in dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/A_Day_In_Court, there not enough information given to make a "good" result or not. And after you've decided, what then? The only affect one of the decision has is that Alec supposedly becomes a great knight. Yet we see him only standing in the courtyard and that's it.
This quest is the most ridiculous one EVER: dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Defending_the_Land
If you decide to imprison someone, the only... jail the Keep has is empty after this decision. Where did "my" soldiers put him?
The political decisions are illusional at best. I find it sorta hilarious that if you don't grand some nobel his house/land whatever back, he's to join the assasinationgroup, because obviously the Warden Commander who did the Archdemon is someone you can kill on the wink of an eye.
Why couldn't I build anything in the Keep (I do not count the wall or whatever it should be). Why didn't they make some precious DLC to explore the Deep Roads under the Keep (after the dwarven doors were closed by your dwarven builder). Why, why, why....

Rushed product and it foreshadowed DA2.

Even in Witcher 1 you can really see ingame what huge armies there are in later chapters. Some cutscenes do not do it. As already said, the Warden Commander was supposed to command the army. What army? Even then, he has Loghain, Alistair, Teagan, Eamon etc. who are also good commanders. They didn't decide that much for the army apart from going there and there. Where was my battlemap showing some nice strategies, plans etc?

Enough rant. DAO was very good, DAA and especially DA2 disappointed. They still have much to do with the universe, so keep making up games the franchise deserves.

Modifié par Jean-Funk Van Damme, 27 juin 2011 - 09:13 .

[mrmike_1949]

OP plays on an XBOX

end of discussion

[HawkeN7x]

imho OP is right but people here are being PC elitists.

[HawkeN7x]

DAO MAdhatter wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Why does everyone hold this game in such high regard than bash DAII?

Really DAO is highly overrated, while DAII while having some serious flaws, is underrated.

Lets start with story. DAO is basically LOTR's with gore. Thats it. The Darkspawn are gonna burn everything, we must stop them. Its very generic, very cliched, very boring. Its also a Lord of the Rings rip...compae the Warden to Frodo (and The Ring his Wardeness), while Loghain is the regent of Gondor, Alistair is Aragorn, The Archdemon is Sauron, and the Darkspawn are the orcs of Mordor, while Denerim is Minas Tirith. Lets not also forget the lack of focus in that the 4 main mid quests's narratives overpower the main quests, while Nature of the Beast and the Urn Of The Sacred Ashes were great, the Broken Circle and  Paragon Of Her Kind stumble due to pacing and poor game design. Its also too bad that they have nothing to do with the story except for gathering plot coupons. Very little reminders of the main threat as well. Its like the Spawn aren't even attacking. ME3 will have a similiar story, but at least The Reapers and indoctrinated Cerberus troopers will remind Shepard of the main threat. And then, unlike its sequel, the party members have barely anything to do with the main plot outside of Alistair and Morrigan.

Now for the characters....one dimensional clones of Bioware characters. Its that Carth? No, its Alistair. Hey Oghren is Black Whirlwind as a Dwarf and if HK47 was an elf, he'd be Zervan. Morrigan and Viconia are like twins, Leliana is Dawn Star. Sten is just like Sagacious Zu, a very untalkative character with a dark past. Only Wynne and Shale seem to be like original characters and Shale has HK47 qualities as well. And almost all of them are one dimensional to boot, or sometimes two dimensional in the case of Morrigan and Allistair. The exceptions are Wynne and Leliana, who is really one of Bioware's best written characters. Everyone else has one personality, one angle, nothing more, and Zervan's DAII appearance proves how one dimensional he is. DAII on the other hand, has more fleshed out and more multi dimensional characters. Varric, along with Leliana, is the most multidimensional character in the series. Isabela has multiple angles on her and does some pretty unexpected things that you don't expect. Aveline has complex views on law and order and is not afraid to extrajudically execute criminals. Anders becomes a true dynamic character and someone that goes from likable to unlikable as the game progresses, thats profound. Only Fenris do I say is more one dimensional and he has more dynamics to him than most of Origins cast. The friendship/rivalry system also gives the characters new angles. Far better cast than the one in Origins or Awakenings. And except for Merril, no clones either.

Gameplay and combat in DAO is so broken and clunky its not even funny. This is far from Baldur's Gate II it tries to be. The skills are so unbalanced especially for a mage that it ceases to be any sort of a tactical masterpiece it wants to be. Mana clash for instance is telling a mage, your dead. Its too easy when you know what you are doing. Not only that, why does my Arcane Warrior fight like she has a pole shoved up her butt? DAII is far from perfect, but its better, especially with patch 1.3. I like how you are actually encouraged to use class combos and that the classes are more balanced. Lets not forget that the dialogue system is much better in DAII (except for the sarcastic option) and Hawke is now actually a character. Far from Geralt of Rivia or Nameless One level, but much better than the listless Warden who was a step back from Shepard. Character customization is overrated anyway...Id rather be a real more fleshed out protagonist  with emotions that can make decisions than a listles splayer avatar who every character talks AT, and not WITH.

Fans that hate on DAII while praising the first just fail to admit that DAO has significant flaws. DAO played it safe and as a result its a boring effort, especially compared to games like The Witcher and NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer which tells a far better written tale with better characters. DAII isn't afraid to fail and in many cases it does, but it also succeeds overall. While the recycled environments and the rushed production values is a huge determent, the story is smarter, has more soul, with better characters, better written side quests, etc. While DAII was rushed to release, DAO was in development too long and got surpassed in quality long before release.

The Dragon Age franchise has yet to achieve greatness...its just not there yet.

FINALLY! Some else sees some sense! I agree completely,

i agree. imho the facts have been laid bare in this thread by the TC.

[phoenixgoddess27]

HawkeN7x wrote...

imho OP is right but people here are being PC elitists.

It's his opinion. He can't be right because it's not a fact. Everyone has their own opinion, whether you or anyone, likes it or not. Trying to force your opinions on someone as "facts" will only get you more opposing views.
I play both DA games on the PS3, so try again.

Modifié par phoenixgoddess27, 27 juin 2011 - 12:08 .

[HawkeN7x]

phoenixgoddess27 wrote...

HawkeN7x wrote...

imho OP is right but people here are being PC elitists.

It's his opinion. It's not a fact, so he can't be right simply because someone else will have a different opinion.
I play both DA games on the PS3, so try again.

imho it's fact because a lot of what he says can be proven.

[phoenixgoddess27]

HawkeN7x wrote...

imho it's fact because a lot of what he says can be proven.

Try again.
It's his opinion. You can prove a fact, but an opinion will always be an opinion. Someone will always see things differently, no matter the side.

[HawkeN7x]

phoenixgoddess27 wrote...

HawkeN7x wrote...

imho it's fact because a lot of what he says can be proven.

Try again.
It's his opinion. You can prove a fact, but an opinion will always be an opinion. Someone will always see things differently, no matter the side.

nah bro, imho what he says is always fact but some people see it differently and dismiss it.

imho just because they see it differently does not make in non-factual bro.