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Icinix wrote...
Its all personal opinions.
Both games have flaws, both games have beautiful gems.
It just depends on the individual as to which are the more obvious.
As long as people don't start disregarding peoples opinions just as nostalgia, or because they're just plain wrong, everyone will hug, smile, kiss and be merry with their celebrated differences in likes and dislikes.
Modifié par CaolIla, 25 juin 2011 - 12:24 .
Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 25 juin 2011 - 02:32 .
Indeed. We are all now less intelligent for having read parts of it.Cutlass Jack wrote...
As someone who likes DA2 more than DAO...I still regret opening this. These types of threads (Including the ones that take the reverse stance) solve nothing, change no one's mind and don't even spawn intelligent debate.
And that's a fact, not opinion.
Alex Kershaw wrote...
You comically comment on one-dimensional characters, but I challenge you to give ANY non-Bioware game created in the last 10 years with more in-depth characters than DAO. In DA2, how much can you say about Anders or Isabella, or any of them? Anders = pro-mage. Fenris = anti-mage. And that's it. Every time they open their mouth, that's all they talk about. I could tell you about Morrigan or Leliana's past for longer than I could talk about the entire DA2 game. The DAO characters had personality.
Jaldaric wrote...
In before Lock.
....
You're all idiots, and the OP is the biggest one. This thread is nothing but trolling by the OP. I want the braincells I lost reading this thread..
(@Il Divo, legacy of kain was a fun series, I liked Kain and Raziel. Good characters)
Modifié par Il Divo, 25 juin 2011 - 04:07 .
txgoldrush wrote...
Lets start with story. DAO is basically LOTR's with gore. Thats it. The Darkspawn are gonna burn everything, we must stop them. Its very generic, very cliched, very boring. Its also a Lord of the Rings rip...compae the Warden to Frodo (and The Ring his Wardeness), while Loghain is the regent of Gondor, Alistair is Aragorn, The Archdemon is Sauron, and the Darkspawn are the orcs of Mordor, while Denerim is Minas Tirith. Lets not also forget the lack of focus in that the 4 main mid quests's narratives overpower the main quests, while Nature of the Beast and the Urn Of The Sacred Ashes were great, the Broken Circle and Paragon Of Her Kind stumble due to pacing and poor game design. Its also too bad that they have nothing to do with the story except for gathering plot coupons. Very little reminders of the main threat as well. Its like the Spawn aren't even attacking. ME3 will have a similiar story, but at least The Reapers and indoctrinated Cerberus troopers will remind Shepard of the main threat. And then, unlike its sequel, the party members have barely anything to do with the main plot outside of Alistair and Morrigan.
Now for the characters....one dimensional clones of Bioware characters. Its that Carth? No, its Alistair. Hey Oghren is Black Whirlwind as a Dwarf and if HK47 was an elf, he'd be Zervan. Morrigan and Viconia are like twins, Leliana is Dawn Star. Sten is just like Sagacious Zu, a very untalkative character with a dark past. Only Wynne and Shale seem to be like original characters and Shale has HK47 qualities as well. And almost all of them are one dimensional to boot, or sometimes two dimensional in the case of Morrigan and Allistair. The exceptions are Wynne and Leliana, who is really one of Bioware's best written characters. Everyone else has one personality, one angle, nothing more, and Zervan's DAII appearance proves how one dimensional he is. DAII on the other hand, has more fleshed out and more multi dimensional characters. Varric, along with Leliana, is the most multidimensional character in the series. Isabela has multiple angles on her and does some pretty unexpected things that you don't expect. Aveline has complex views on law and order and is not afraid to extrajudically execute criminals. Anders becomes a true dynamic character and someone that goes from likable to unlikable as the game progresses, thats profound. Only Fenris do I say is more one dimensional and he has more dynamics to him than most of Origins cast. The friendship/rivalry system also gives the characters new angles. Far better cast than the one in Origins or Awakenings. And except for Merril, no clones either.
Gameplay and combat in DAO is so broken and clunky its not even funny. This is far from Baldur's Gate II it tries to be. The skills are so unbalanced especially for a mage that it ceases to be any sort of a tactical masterpiece it wants to be. Mana clash for instance is telling a mage, your dead. Its too easy when you know what you are doing. Not only that, why does my Arcane Warrior fight like she has a pole shoved up her butt? DAII is far from perfect, but its better, especially with patch 1.3. I like how you are actually encouraged to use class combos and that the classes are more balanced. Lets not forget that the dialogue system is much better in DAII (except for the sarcastic option) and Hawke is now actually a character. Far from Geralt of Rivia or Nameless One level, but much better than the listless Warden who was a step back from Shepard. Character customization is overrated anyway...Id rather be a real more fleshed out protagonist with emotions that can make decisions than a listles splayer avatar who every character talks AT, and not WITH.
Fans that hate on DAII while praising the first just fail to admit that DAO has significant flaws. DAO played it safe and as a result its a boring effort, especially compared to games like The Witcher and NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer which tells a far better written tale with better characters. DAII isn't afraid to fail and in many cases it does, but it also succeeds overall. While the recycled environments and the rushed production values is a huge determent, the story is smarter, has more soul, with better characters, better written side quests, etc. While DAII was rushed to release, DAO was in development too long and got surpassed in quality long before release.
The Dragon Age franchise has yet to achieve greatness...its just not there yet.
Jaldaric wrote...
In before Lock.
....
You're all idiots, and the OP is the biggest one. This thread is nothing but trolling by the OP. I want the braincells I lost reading this thread..
(@Il Divo, legacy of kain was a fun series, I liked Kain and Raziel. Good characters)
bobthecrusher wrote...
You have several valid points, but things like this are really just a matter of opinion. I personally disagree, so I'm going to respond to each assertion made.txgoldrush wrote...
Lets start with story. DAO is basically LOTR's with gore. Thats it. The Darkspawn are gonna burn everything, we must stop them. Its very generic, very cliched, very boring. Its also a Lord of the Rings rip...compae the Warden to Frodo (and The Ring his Wardeness), while Loghain is the regent of Gondor, Alistair is Aragorn, The Archdemon is Sauron, and the Darkspawn are the orcs of Mordor, while Denerim is Minas Tirith. Lets not also forget the lack of focus in that the 4 main mid quests's narratives overpower the main quests, while Nature of the Beast and the Urn Of The Sacred Ashes were great, the Broken Circle and Paragon Of Her Kind stumble due to pacing and poor game design. Its also too bad that they have nothing to do with the story except for gathering plot coupons. Very little reminders of the main threat as well. Its like the Spawn aren't even attacking. ME3 will have a similiar story, but at least The Reapers and indoctrinated Cerberus troopers will remind Shepard of the main threat. And then, unlike its sequel, the party members have barely anything to do with the main plot outside of Alistair and Morrigan.
The story was, I'll admit, very cliched, but at least it was a story. Dragon age 2 saw you stumbling about in random directions for 10 years, with things happening around you. The Warden is not comprable to Frodo, in that he actually does something, actually chooses, sets off to make things better on his own. Frodo was just kinda tossed into the middle of things with no skills or knowlegde before hand. One of my personal favorite quests in the game was paragon of her time. I thought that it reached a good emotional level and managed to have a new, entertaining monster halfway through and at the end, not to mention that by the end you have to make an actual decision that makes a difference (which never happened in DII)Now for the characters....one dimensional clones of Bioware characters. Its that Carth? No, its Alistair. Hey Oghren is Black Whirlwind as a Dwarf and if HK47 was an elf, he'd be Zervan. Morrigan and Viconia are like twins, Leliana is Dawn Star. Sten is just like Sagacious Zu, a very untalkative character with a dark past. Only Wynne and Shale seem to be like original characters and Shale has HK47 qualities as well. And almost all of them are one dimensional to boot, or sometimes two dimensional in the case of Morrigan and Allistair. The exceptions are Wynne and Leliana, who is really one of Bioware's best written characters. Everyone else has one personality, one angle, nothing more, and Zervan's DAII appearance proves how one dimensional he is. DAII on the other hand, has more fleshed out and more multi dimensional characters. Varric, along with Leliana, is the most multidimensional character in the series. Isabela has multiple angles on her and does some pretty unexpected things that you don't expect. Aveline has complex views on law and order and is not afraid to extrajudically execute criminals. Anders becomes a true dynamic character and someone that goes from likable to unlikable as the game progresses, thats profound. Only Fenris do I say is more one dimensional and he has more dynamics to him than most of Origins cast. The friendship/rivalry system also gives the characters new angles. Far better cast than the one in Origins or Awakenings. And except for Merril, no clones either.
You want to talk about one dimensional? 'I'm a female pirate who really just needs someone to love.' 'I'm a mage, and everyone hates me for it' 'I'm a guard.......and I happen to have a friend that's really talented.' 'I'm an elf! I'm also a mage, but I don't really understand the dangers of blood magic, hope that doesn't come back to bite me!' The only one dimensional characters in Origins were Oghren (and even he had some cool backstory and motives) and maybe Allistar. Even with the Archetyped Allistar, I still cared for the characters in Origins, and thought of them more as actual characters as apposed to scripted lines on a page. DAII was never unpredictable, never really entertaining. The trailer told you how one of the major plot lines was resolved.Gameplay and combat in DAO is so broken and clunky its not even funny. This is far from Baldur's Gate II it tries to be. The skills are so unbalanced especially for a mage that it ceases to be any sort of a tactical masterpiece it wants to be. Mana clash for instance is telling a mage, your dead. Its too easy when you know what you are doing. Not only that, why does my Arcane Warrior fight like she has a pole shoved up her butt? DAII is far from perfect, but its better, especially with patch 1.3. I like how you are actually encouraged to use class combos and that the classes are more balanced. Lets not forget that the dialogue system is much better in DAII (except for the sarcastic option) and Hawke is now actually a character. Far from Geralt of Rivia or Nameless One level, but much better than the listless Warden who was a step back from Shepard. Character customization is overrated anyway...Id rather be a real more fleshed out protagonist with emotions that can make decisions than a listles splayer avatar who every character talks AT, and not WITH.
Rogues and mages in DAII can beat anything, especially rogues. i played all of DAII with a party of Isabela, Varric, my hawke (a rogue) and Anders to heal. DAII was so easy it wasn't even funny. Gameplay and combat in DA:O was slow (I'll admit) and needed to be sped up, but all three classes stood on even footing. You needed at least one of each class to really be successful, and spells actually had some weight behind them, as opposed to little puffs of smoke, and flags with the word bang on them like they were in DAII. DAII's combat was also very boring, though at first it was exciting and new it lacked it any change from place to place, it was just the same battle over and over. Warriors actually had the ability to do DPS in Origins, while in DAII they're only purpose is to tank. The dialogue system is not better, you only ge three choices, Good nuetral and evil, no matter how you describe them, that's what it is. there's no choices. no matter which dialogue you chose it always ends the same way. Not to mention that Hawke is the biggest Mary Sue in the video game world, with everyone around him loving him for no apparent reason, and everything he does succeeding.Fans that hate on DAII while praising the first just fail to admit that DAO has significant flaws. DAO played it safe and as a result its a boring effort, especially compared to games like The Witcher and NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer which tells a far better written tale with better characters. DAII isn't afraid to fail and in many cases it does, but it also succeeds overall. While the recycled environments and the rushed production values is a huge determent, the story is smarter, has more soul, with better characters, better written side quests, etc. While DAII was rushed to release, DAO was in development too long and got surpassed in quality long before release.
The Dragon Age franchise has yet to achieve greatness...its just not there yet.
You used Geralt as an example of bad character design earlier. Just saying. The side quests in origins made sense, and had impact, while the 'side quests' in number two were errands that you HAD to do to progress in the game.
erynnar wrote...
Jaldaric wrote...
In before Lock.
....
You're all idiots, and the OP is the biggest one. This thread is nothing but trolling by the OP. I want the braincells I lost reading this thread..
(@Il Divo, legacy of kain was a fun series, I liked Kain and Raziel. Good characters)
Me too? ROFL!!! And sorry, but braincells are non-refundable. And I am with you, I suspect the OP crept out from a bridge somewhere.
MorrigansLove wrote...
What in Andrastes ******?! How?! WHY?!
I need to lie down...
Modifié par xkg, 25 juin 2011 - 06:57 .
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