101 réponses à ce sujet

[S.A.K]

AC5 wrote...

You liked that part, why? It was like a giant testament to how terrible dreads are and just how badly they need to be mothballed.

I said I like that conversation. Not the dreadnoughts.

[AC5]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

No need to decommission them though, and I hope they can deal out some nice carnage against the Reapers, but large scale battles in space can do a lot of damage to those caught in the crossfire or from stray rounds,

and I personally like how the power of that class of ship is put in perspective with examples at least I could visualize.

I was actually referring to how weak their main gun was.

S.A.K wrote...

I said I like that conversation. Not the dreadnoughts. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]

I guess I can see that although my opinion was somewhat marred by the subject and the idea of a chief drilling a couple servicemen in a public terminal but, then maybe he's not actually a chief and is just one of those crazy fathers who could never leave the military behind.

As for the thread topic I would support a believable space battle but, I don't really see this happening as the only way I see this seems plausible is if the combined fleets take advantage of the reapers inherent weaknesses and, finally develop weapons worthy of being mounted on their ships and, I don't see this as appearing epic enough for what BW wants.

[Nashiktal]

Any space battle with the reapers will involve the slaughter of the non-reapers without the use of some magic tech.

Seriously Reapers are mind bogglingly terrifying when compared to all the other ships in universe. They are a class all on their own.

Edit: However I would like to see more space battle cutscenes, I just hope they can avoid that annoying load skip that happened during the suicide mission space battle.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 26 juin 2011 - 07:05 .

[sgtrock]

knightnblu wrote...

The final offensive on the Reaper fleet has to feel as momentous as the D-Day invasion did to the men who were involved in it. Watching that battle should be as brutal as watching the first 30 minutes of Saving Private Ryan. In short, we should be awed by it. We have been building up to it since the original Mass Effect and the tension will continue to build in ME3 until you can cut it with a knife. You should have butterflies in your stomach before you launch that attack. It's for all of the marbles and if you lose, you lose it all and doom the galaxy to destruction.

It has to be huge, long, and there should be many paths to take where errors can either lead to failure of the attack or allow for recovery of the mission objectives by follow up decisions/sacrifices because very large scale offensives tend to give and lose ground until completion, and there should be multiple fleets involved in the Reaper counter-attack with different objectives. That means that you have to decide both strategy and tactics as well as who gets the toughest jobs.

There has to be a tremendous emotional investment in this battle and by the end, the player should feel emotionally drained before he is hit with the excitement of victory achieved. That means that BioWare has to bring out it's "A" game in writing, design, and execution. I think that they have demonstrated that they can do it with the previous Mass Effects, and I can't wait to get my hands on ME3.

now we know why the ship was called the normandy.

[AC5]

Nashiktal wrote...

Any space battle with the reapers will involve the slaughter of the non-reapers without the use of some magic tech.

Seriously Reapers are mind bogglingly terrifying when compared to all the other ships in universe. They are a class all on their own.

Edit: However I would like to see more space battle cutscenes, I just hope they can avoid that annoying load skip that happened during the suicide mission space battle.

Not so much while they are fantastic dreadnoughts they are just that dreadnoughts, a class of ship that became obsolete as soon as the FTL drive was invented. 

Their tactics are severely lacking as evident by their design philosophy which is likely caused by the fact that they have not recently faced a noteworthy foe because of their sheer numbers rather than having pure technological and tactical superiority. Essentially they have become victims of their own success as they now suffer from technological and ideological stagnation.   

Modifié par AC5, 26 juin 2011 - 07:22 .

[Nashiktal]

AC5 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Any space battle with the reapers will involve the slaughter of the non-reapers without the use of some magic tech.

Seriously Reapers are mind bogglingly terrifying when compared to all the other ships in universe. They are a class all on their own.

Edit: However I would like to see more space battle cutscenes, I just hope they can avoid that annoying load skip that happened during the suicide mission space battle.

Not so much while they are fantastic dreadnoughts they are just that dreadnoughts, a class of ship that became obsolete as soon as the FTL drive was invented. 

Their tactics are severely lacking as evident by their design philosophy which is likely caused by the fact that they have not recently faced a noteworthy foe because of their sheer numbers rather than having pure technological and tactical superiority. Essentially they have become victims of their own success as they now suffer from technological and ideological stagnation.   

I really don't want to go through all of this again, but seriously. Rearpers outclass anything we have. Speed, endurance, firepower, manueverability, you name it they beat us at it.

They are tougher than dreads, at least as fast as frigates, more manueverable than the normandy, and can one shot crusers.

One handicapped reaper decimated the Alliance fleet, while under focus fire from said fleet.

Edit: Also sheer numbers isn't entirely correct, a dev said that every reaper could fit on earth. I'd say their numbers range from a few hundred, to a thousand at most. Even then, if one reaper can decimate a fleet, what happens when you get two, or three together? Then what happens when you get ten? Then a thousand?

Modifié par Nashiktal, 26 juin 2011 - 07:45 .

[Rulid]

you mean... epic space battle "Cut Scenes"?

[S.A.K]

It will probably be cut scenes if they are there. But I don't mind getting involved in them

[AC5]

Nashiktal wrote...

I really don't want to go through all of this again, but seriously. Rearpers outclass anything we have. Speed, endurance, firepower, manueverability, you name it they beat us at it.

They are tougher than dreads, at least as fast as frigates, more manueverable than the normandy, and can one shot crusers.

One handicapped reaper decimated the Alliance fleet, while under focus fire from said fleet.

Edit: Also sheer numbers isn't entirely correct, a dev said that every reaper could fit on earth. I'd say their numbers range from a few hundred, to a thousand at most. Even then, if one reaper can decimate a fleet, what happens when you get two, or three together? Then what happens when you get ten? Then a thousand?

All of that is true except for the part about speed and that dev quote is useless as Earth's surface area is over 500 million km2

What I am trying to get people to realize is that just because your enemy has advantages in certain areas doesn't mean you must fight them on those terms.

I am by no means advocating a do this and win scenario, however if people step back and examine the facts they will see that the reapers while dangerous are no where near the invincible killing machines BW has painted.

As for the weapons that all ME ships mount read this post it's basically about the inferiority of ME weaponry compared to what could have been made.
http://social.biowar...96762/5#7702236

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

S.A.K wrote...

Shepard: I don't stand alone. We are taking you down once and for all!
Harbinger: Yeah? you and what army?
*Shepards multi-racial fleet comes out of FTL"
Shepard: Me and that army.
Harbinger: Fuuuuuuuu....

You mean something like... this scene

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 26 juin 2011 - 08:33 .

[SkittlesKat96]

 It'd be nice if Shepard was in a massive Dreadnought with massive amounts of fleets and big ships around him and we get to stand next to a bunch of Admirals and high ranking people and fight the Reapers, then we take a ship and go onto Earth halfway through the space battle.

[S.A.K]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Shepard: I don't stand alone. We are taking you down once and for all!
Harbinger: Yeah? you and what army?
*Shepards multi-racial fleet comes out of FTL"
Shepard: Me and that army.
Harbinger: Fuuuuuuuu....

You mean something like... this scene

LOL! yeah something like that

[SalsaDMA]

Gatt9 wrote...

Paulinius wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

I would like to see something like this!

That is one of the worst space battles ever filmed-even worse than Plan 9 From Outer Space. 

I wonder what Lucas was thinking? Hey guys, let's clutter the screen as much as possible.

What exactly do you think large space battles involving fighters looks like?  1700's era british forming lines and staying respectul distances from the enemy?

Truth is,  it's going to be alot more cluttered.  Because every single hit generates a phenomenal amount of now-deadly projectiles floating in space instead of conviently disappearing.

As far as the topic goes,  how many genres really need to be crammed into one game?  Do we need a sim-city interface so that we can have the citites build defenses against the reapers?

No need to force in space-sim on top of all the other forced features.

I have to agree with the guy dissing the star wars battle scene to a certain degree. Having played lots of space sim shooters I just looked in wonder at why the fighters did all those rolls all the time while not in any engagements, but purely moving from A to B. It looked artificial in the extreme. The the actual "fighting" as well... again.. Extremely contrived to look at and didn't feel like a natural flow of battle.

Just my 2 cents.

[SalsaDMA]

Nashiktal wrote...

AC5 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Any space battle with the reapers will involve the slaughter of the non-reapers without the use of some magic tech.

Seriously Reapers are mind bogglingly terrifying when compared to all the other ships in universe. They are a class all on their own.

Edit: However I would like to see more space battle cutscenes, I just hope they can avoid that annoying load skip that happened during the suicide mission space battle.

Not so much while they are fantastic dreadnoughts they are just that dreadnoughts, a class of ship that became obsolete as soon as the FTL drive was invented. 

Their tactics are severely lacking as evident by their design philosophy which is likely caused by the fact that they have not recently faced a noteworthy foe because of their sheer numbers rather than having pure technological and tactical superiority. Essentially they have become victims of their own success as they now suffer from technological and ideological stagnation.   

I really don't want to go through all of this again, but seriously. Rearpers outclass anything we have. Speed, endurance, firepower, manueverability, you name it they beat us at it.

They are tougher than dreads, at least as fast as frigates, more manueverable than the normandy, and can one shot crusers.

One handicapped reaper decimated the Alliance fleet, while under focus fire from said fleet.

Edit: Also sheer numbers isn't entirely correct, a dev said that every reaper could fit on earth. I'd say their numbers range from a few hundred, to a thousand at most. Even then, if one reaper can decimate a fleet, what happens when you get two, or three together? Then what happens when you get ten? Then a thousand?

Taking out 2 ships is decimating a fleet now?

[VirtualStranger]

I have just one thing to say about space battles: FOLLOW THE CODEX.

http://masseffect.wi...ps_and_Vehicles

If they go around breaking previously established lore to make something that looks like that godawful space battle in Star Wars: RotS I will not be happy.

Follow the laws of your own fictional universe. You are the ones who made them

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

VirtualStranger wrote...

I have just one thing to say about space battles: FOLLOW THE CODEX.

http://masseffect.wi...ps_and_Vehicles

If they go around breaking previously established lore to make something that looks like that godawful space battle in Star Wars: RotS I will not be happy.

Follow the laws of your own fictional universe. You are the ones who made them

Sooo... in other words.

Quote from the linked codex...
Most ship-to-ship engagements are skirmishes between patrol vessels of
cruiser weight and below, with dreadnoughts and carriers only deployed
in full-scale fleet actions. Battles in open space are short and often
inconclusive, as the weaker opponent generally disengages.

Sooo... Republic Fleet vs Sepratist Fleet...

Or if we want to go OT... Rebel Alliance Fleet vs Death Star and Imperial Fleet.

I really don't understand how you claim it shouldn't be like 'that godawful space battle in RotS' when the above codex pretty much does state such things can happen.

You kind of shot yourself in the foot trying to bring the codex into this. Seeing as the codex does state that such battles can occur.

[VirtualStranger]

That's not what I was talking about

Only fighters and frigates enter CLOSE "knife fight" ranges of 10 or fewer kilometers.

Opposing dreadnoughts open with main gun artillery duel at EXTREME ranges of tens of thousands of kilometers. The fleet close, maintaining evasive lateral motion while keeping their bow guns facing the enemy.

Neither dreadnoughts nor cruisers can use their main guns at close range; laying the bow on a moving target becomes impossible. Superheated thruster exhaust becomes a hazard.

Planetary assaults are complicated if the target is a habitable garden world; the attackers cannot approach the defenders straight on.

The Citadel Conventions prohibit the use of large kinetic impactors against habitable worlds. In a straight-on attack, any misses plough into the planet behind the defending fleet. If the defenders position themselves between the attackers and the planet, they can fire at will while the attacker risks hitting the planet.

Warships normally turn off their a-grav systems during combat, reducing heat generated by systems and increasing combat endurance.

That is why a RotS syle space battle would contradict previously established lore.

Modifié par VirtualStranger, 26 juin 2011 - 11:38 .

[Dexi]

RotS space battle was underwhelming...

And in the end I don't think that the Dreadnoughts will make the difference. It will be the carriers. They'll carry many many fighters and frigates equipped with Thanix Cannons.

The Thanix Cannons being made out of Reaper technology are the most likely to be the most damaging towards the Reaper ships ( think of the Collector Ship vs upgraded Normandy).

Also, frigates and fighters, being smaller, are also more agile and harder to hit.

GJ Alliance and your carriers!

[SAE100]

Someone stated, that the Reapers don´t have fighters. They have the occolus which fills a fighter role, as you can see in the Mass Effect E3 Demo playing on Earth.

However I always wondered where the hell those GARDIAN-Lasers where when the Geth opened their attack on the Citadel with torpedos/missles.

More Spacebattles? Yes please, but a little more connected to the lore if possible and with more detailed ships.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

knightnblu wrote...
It has to be huge, long, and there should be many paths to take where errors can either lead to failure of the attack or allow for recovery of the mission objectives by follow up decisions/sacrifices because very large scale offensives tend to give and lose ground until completion, and there should be multiple fleets involved in the Reaper counter-attack with different objectives. That means that you have to decide both strategy and tactics as well as who gets the toughest jobs.

I totally agree with this... I want to have multiple avenues to take and multiple decisions to be made that effect the outcome of the final moments of the game. Kinda like the SM in ME2, but waaaay more choices and more ways to fail. 

[Skirata129]

AC5 wrote...

You liked that part, why? It was like a giant testament to how terrible dreads are and just how badly they need to be mothballed.

I'm going to guess that you're in favor of nuclear disarmament too. Peace through superior firepower is the only lasting peace.

[78stonewobble]

Mr. Man wrote...

Epic Space battles FTW...
Shepard's final act deserves the most awesome clash seen in gaming

Where can I sign this? :|

Return of the Jedi.


The prequel series battle was a bit too cgi'ish but thats just my nostalgia and they did have a kitchen sink in it.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 26 juin 2011 - 01:09 .

[AC5]

Skirata129 wrote...

AC5 wrote...

You liked that part, why? It was like a giant testament to how terrible dreads are and just how badly they need to be mothballed.

I'm going to guess that you're in favor of nuclear disarmament too. Peace through superior firepower is the only lasting peace.

Did you even read my posts? Because they have far more to do with how poorly armed deads are rather than removing them just because they are a tool of war.

read this it's about how a much more effective weapon can be made with current ME tech.

AC5 wrote...
Now for the weapon according to ME2 the Everest class dreadnought fires a 20 kilo ferrous(iron) slug at 1.3% of light speed an absolutely pathetic weapon when you compare it to what ME scientist could have made the FTL torpedo a weapon that can be fired with out the forcing the parent vessel to face the target also the launch would in no way contribute to the vessels heat. On top of that would be that the speed of the weapon would mean the torp could be made with little no guidance thus enabling a too dumb to jam system. Above this though would be that a mere 5 ton torpedo would be 250 times heavier and at least 77 times faster which would then guarantee it's immunity to GUARDIAN systems and it's sheer force would bring serious doubt in kinetic barriers ability either deflect or block the attack much less from multiple attackers, this is of course assuming they are even designed to activate against such a fast moving threat. 

[Mr. Man]

VirtualStranger wrote...

That's not what I was talking about

Only fighters and frigates enter CLOSE "knife fight" ranges of 10 or fewer kilometers.

Opposing dreadnoughts open with main gun artillery duel at EXTREME ranges of tens of thousands of kilometers. The fleet close, maintaining evasive lateral motion while keeping their bow guns facing the enemy.

Neither dreadnoughts nor cruisers can use their main guns at close range; laying the bow on a moving target becomes impossible. Superheated thruster exhaust becomes a hazard.

Planetary assaults are complicated if the target is a habitable garden world; the attackers cannot approach the defenders straight on.

The Citadel Conventions prohibit the use of large kinetic impactors against habitable worlds. In a straight-on attack, any misses plough into the planet behind the defending fleet. If the defenders position themselves between the attackers and the planet, they can fire at will while the attacker risks hitting the planet.

Warships normally turn off their a-grav systems during combat, reducing heat generated by systems and increasing combat endurance.

That is why a RotS syle space battle would contradict previously established lore.

Overall, I agree with you. But, the Reapers likely don't care about the Citadel conventions so that point about the garden worlds is likely moot. In any case, yeah, Bioware should stick to the lore, but I'm not really afraid of it becoming to much like RotS...They've already made some spacebattles (like the battle of the citadel) and those turned out fine...

[killersinc]

nhsk wrote...

Krogans are not allowed to have space ships.

Neither was the germans but they did start world war two.