287 réponses à ce sujet

[sagefic]

Abispa wrote...

Some romances take YEARS to develop IRL, so having a s/s relationship in ME3 with previous squad members may actually have the unintended consequence of making them the most believable in the series.

Pretty much this.

Taking one's time to start a relationship - especially with someone shep used to work with in the Alliance and under regs - makes perfect sense. I think in the end the s/s romances will come off like folks who started the LotSB relationship with Liara - a different track to a relationship with her.

The only sad thing is that there was no option to have s/s romances from the start.

[Wittand25]

King Zeel wrote...
you guys are just not getting it.

No matter how we explain it we get the same trite response "why do you care, it wont affect you"


That's because it affects OUR canon as well. DUH. the same logic can be used to why do you want your char bisexual it doesn't "affect" you.

I'm honestly getting fed up with this topic but it only comes up so much times because you guys refuse to understand.

I have posted several times suggestions how (s/s) romances can be handled so that they do not affect a player who does not want to be affected. But I do not see how this justifies opening a new thread anyway

Sorry but having the option to pursue the romance I want does affect my game, while the existence of romances I do not want has no effect (unless they would be forced)

i comes up all the time because every six hours or so someone with an issue with homosexuality feels the urge to open a new thread instead of using the one that is dedicated for the discussion of this topic.

[Abispa]

Oghren made me so mad. Everyone kept talking about how he runs around in combat with no pants, even though I had him fully clothed. Ruined my immersion.

So I played the game, making sure he never wore pants. I'm permanently scarred.

[Aloren]

How does it affect your canon ? it's not like the characters are trying to sneak into your bed against your wish, when you talk to them, it's obvious when you're starting a romance discussion. If your Mshep doesn't tell Kaidan that he wouldn't mind spending more time with him in the captain's quarter, then Kaidan won't try to hit on you... To me, each Shepard has his own canon, so I really don't see how this changes your canon.
Same for DA2 really, when you had a little heart next to a sentence... well...

[Ryzaki]

Abispa wrote...

Oghren made me so mad. Everyone kept talking about how he runs around in combat with no pants, even though I had him fully clothed. Ruined my immersion.

So I played the game, making sure he never wore pants. I'm permanently scarred.

 

[Sierra Crysis]

Just take it like you did in DA2, all the characters are Shepard-Sexual, even if they said no before.. (Here's looking at you Jack.) In all seriousness, Liara, Samara could be workable and Tali did get pretty flirty and cutesy when she was talking about linking suits with Femshep/Trusting her enough to.

Casey Hudson gives me hope though when he says that returning characters won't necessarily be bi, that they'll have some new casties.

[Raanz]

Lord Zeuss wrote...

I've heard no one who uses the argument that no one has been "established" to be heterosexual
offer an example of what they would consider sufficient establishment. Until I hear one, the "gay until proven straight" argument allows for no one to be heterosexual, not even someone who lives their entire life having never had sex with a person of the same gender, because they must have simply repressed a bisexuality that is evident by the fact that it was never refuted, which cannot be done.

I hold nothing against people who want same-sex relationships and even romances. I don't share their viewpoint, but they have every right to hold it just I have every right to hold mine. What I do take exception to is when this understandable desire becomes a rallying call to seize upon characters and have them redefined to suit whims. I wouldn't call for Liara to suddenly become a male-Shepard-only romance, because she has been clearly set as a character that marks no distinction between Shepard's gender.

I am not talking about "player choice" or "content". If Liara were to become male-Shepard-only, it would clash with her pre-defined character, regardless of the player-choice and content aspects of it. And yes, this goes both ways. Making a non-bisexual character suddenly bi is a redefinition of that character which does not fit with the prior precedent.

If Garrus were gay, he wouldn't have been a female-Shepard-only romance. That he doesn't ever explicitly in no uncertain terms spell out "I Do Not Want To Have Sex With A Male Shepard" is irrelevant, and even that would probably not be enough "establishment" of his sexuality for people anyway. Either the fact that non-bisexual characters were not bisexual is establishment enough of their sexualities, or nothing in this world can possibly be.

Introduce new love interests for same-sex romance.

I have to concur with your reasoning.

[Ryzaki]

Everyone arguing for character continuity I hope you didn't romance Tali or Garrus then.

[jlb524]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

So, basically, chill out with the accusations.

Oh yeah...that was posted in the 'For Love' thread...did you read some posts afterwards, where myself and another combed the thread for the word 'homophobia' only to find it used just once (and it was someone saying 'I'm not a homophobe')?

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

What about the people arguing character continuity and such (like me)? Are they homophobic?

No...your arguments are just poorly founded and easy to refute/counter.

Modifié par jlb524, 25 juin 2011 - 08:47 .

[VirtualStranger]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Taken from Chris Priestly concerning accusations of homophobia:

Stepping in for a moment to caution some posters here for defending S/S romance too strongly.

I have seen some people come here, make sensible or polite posts stating they do not want ot like S/S romance and people accusing them of homophobia. This is unfair and untrue and will not be tolerated here.

Yes, if someone posts something juvenile or bigoted about S/S romances, this is not allowed, but not liking S/S romances for otehr reasons (such as the possibility of it conflicting with a person's previous romances, continuity, etc) is fine.

I have said this before for ME1 and ME2, I personally do not like ANY romances (S/S or not) in my games. If I were to have bought the ME seriews as a fan, I wouldn't have explored any romances as that is my play style. As an employee, I do recognize that they are a valuable feature for fans who enjoy them, and that having more romance options is even more valuable. But just because I do not liek romances in video games does not make me anti-romance in general or homophobic (or heterophobic eitehr I suppose).

So, please continue sensible discussion, but please lay off the accusations of homophobia. Thanks.


smilie

So, basically, chill out with the accusations.

See that bold? The accusations are completely valid.

Modifié par VirtualStranger, 25 juin 2011 - 08:47 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Ryzaki wrote...

Everyone arguing for character continuity I hope you didn't romance Tali or Garrus then.

Heavens no, besides the generic 'see what happens if you take a choice otherwise' path.

[KawaiiKatie]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

So, basically, chill out with the accusations.

I would not accuse you of outright homophobia, but if you do not like the idea of "straight" characters evolving their sexuality, then I believe that your disapproval has roots in homophobia. You may be overall in favour of homosexuals, but if it makes you uncomfortable to see seemingly "straight" characters reveal themselves as bisexual, you should think very hard about why exactly you feel that way.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 25 juin 2011 - 08:48 .

[Ryzaki]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Everyone arguing for character continuity I hope you didn't romance Tali or Garrus then.

Heavens no, besides the generic 'see what happens if you take a choice otherwise' path.

 

You're consistent at least but I've found a headdesk amount of people going "RETCON!" while being avid supporters of the Talimance. It boggles the mind. 

[MegaBadExample]

BRING IN SOME NEW CHARACTERS FOR S/S.
BUT PLEASE BIOWARE DO NOT TURN THE OLD SQUAD MEMBERS GAY/BI!!!!!! JUST DON'T.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I don't think it's fair to call anyone who doesn't want Ashley or Kaidan to be bi is homophobic. I'm sure many of them are, but it's not the only reason. Some people just don't like something established about a character to be changed on a whim. And they genuinely believe that their sexuality was sufficiently established in the first game. If Kaidan or Ashley had said specifically that they were only into one gender, then would it make sense?

If they had made Kaidan black in the third game, would anyone who didn't like that change be a racist?

I've got a better example. I wasn't crazy about the retcons to Anders and Merrill in DA 2, but the changes to their character encompassed far more than their sexuality. And in Merrill's case her role was too small to even be a change. It wasn't even what really got to me. While that one incident with Anders hitting on my was a slightly irritating, it was easy to avoid and over and done with for the rest of the game. He didn't bother me with it again. What bothered me was his appearance, personality, voice and mannerisms rendered him largely unrecognizable as "Anders" to me. I can tell you I would have been just as annoyed with the new Anders even if he was just a female only romance option.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 25 juin 2011 - 08:51 .

[Ryzaki]

...So if Kaidan and Ash are made s/s romances in ME3 you're not gonna complain afterwards?

[shepskisaac]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I don't think it's fair to call anyone who doesn't want Ashley or Kaidan to be bi is homophobic. I'm sure many of them are, but it's not the only reason. Some people just don't like something established about a character to be changed on a whim. And they genuinely believe that their sexuality was sufficiently established in the first game. If Kaidan or Ashley had said specifically that they were only into one gender, then would it make sense?

If they had made Kaidan black in the third game, would anyone who didn't like that change be a racist?

I've got a better example. I wasn't crazy about the retcons to Anders and Merrill in DA 2, but the changes to their character encompassed far more than their sexuality. And in Merrill's case her role was too small to even be a change. No, while that one incident with Anders hitting on my was a slightly irritating, it was easy to avoid and over and done with for the rest of the game. He didn't bother me with it again. What bothered me was his appearance, personality, voice and mannerisms rendered him largely unrecognizable as "Anders" to me. I can tell you I would have been just as annoyed with the new Anders even if he was just a female only romance option.

If Kaidan was made black in ME3 it would CONTRADICT the undeniable fact he was white in ME1 & ME2. Kaidan being bisexual does not contradict anything that was said about him or what he said himself.

[VirtualStranger]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

VirtualStranger wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Taken from Chris Priestly concerning accusations of homophobia:

Stepping in for a moment to caution some posters here for defending S/S romance too strongly.

I have seen some people come here, make sensible or polite posts stating they do not want ot like S/S romance and people accusing them of homophobia. This is unfair and untrue and will not be tolerated here.

Yes, if someone posts something juvenile or bigoted about S/S romances, this is not allowed, but not liking S/S romances for otehr reasons (such as the possibility of it conflicting with a person's previous romances, continuity, etc) is fine.

I have said this before for ME1 and ME2, I personally do not like ANY romances (S/S or not) in my games. If I were to have bought the ME seriews as a fan, I wouldn't have explored any romances as that is my play style. As an employee, I do recognize that they are a valuable feature for fans who enjoy them, and that having more romance options is even more valuable. But just because I do not liek romances in video games does not make me anti-romance in general or homophobic (or heterophobic eitehr I suppose).

So, please continue sensible discussion, but please lay off the accusations of homophobia. Thanks.
smilie

So, basically, chill out with the accusations.

See that bold? The accusations are completely valid.

But how many people are doing that?

The OP. Who was actually the only one I saw being called that.

Modifié par VirtualStranger, 25 juin 2011 - 08:53 .