21 réponses à ce sujet

[yaw]

I'm kinda miffed that only Morrigan's boyfriend was offered to go with her through the mirror.

If we exclude the baby, the relationship between Morrigan and a female warden (or a non-romanced male, for that matter) could have been just as strong as the relationship between Morrigan and a lover. Both Wardens are her first and only friend. Both Wardens could show the exact same amount of trust. Both Wardens could treat her with exactly the same amount of warmth and kindness. The only difference is that one may have had a sexual relationship with her, and the other not.

Sure, the OGD could have been the Warden's, and then the Warden would also be her child's father. But the child could also have been Alistair's. Or Loghain's. Or someone else's. Or it could not even exist. And yet the Warden is still offered to go with her, just because they're lovers.

Why does she trust her lover more than her first, closest, and best friend? Wouldn't the friendship bond be just, or at least almost, as strong? 

I think she should have offered those at 100 (friendly) to go with her aswell.

[Addai]

I'm guessing she was mainly thinking of the child.

[yaw]

As I said, the child could have a different father or not even exist, and so the situation concerning the OGB can be exactly the same for both Morrigan's friend and lover.

Yet only the lover is offered to go with her.

[gandanlin]

It seems reasonable enough to expect others would have the option to go with her.

I found that part of the game a bit confusing, anyway. I have played it a couple of times now, and I once imported a character that had romanced Morrigan but had refused her request to father a child. Yet Morrigan's speech suggested she viewed that character as father. I suppose comception of the child could have happened on an earlier occasion, but it certainly did not go with the way that character had responded to Morrigan at Eamon's on the eve of the final battle.

I suppose it is difficult for the game developers to account for all the possible permutations and combinations of ways people may play the game, and to then write in all the appropriate options in other modules....

[yaw]

If you slept with Morrigan at least once in camp and then later refused her ritual, it's revealed that she conceived a normal child with you unexpectedly before the eve of the battle. But yeah, it's not properly differentiated.

And true, it would take a lot of work to write in dialogue and make extra scenes for all the different ways you could have played it, but it would have been very little effort just to allow those at 100 (friendly) to join her.
All it would have involved would be changing "love" to "friend" in the dialogue: "Then come, my love, we shall face the future together." Perhaps a few tweaks to the PC options just before it. That's it.

Modifié par yaw, 25 juin 2011 - 11:04 .

[Who is that Masked Man]

Based on what Morrigan says, going into the Eluvian is pretty serious business. She tells a friend-Warden who wants to follow her that she can't allow him or her to make that sacrifice. She also tries to dissuade a lover-Warden, telling him that he can't know what he's asking by requesting to go with her, and saying that it would be better for both of them if the Warden stayed behind.

My guess is, for whatever reason, the Eluvian is a one-way trip, at least as far as the Warden is concerned. However strong their bond of friendship was, a Warden who was Morrigan's friend would presumably have some kind of life aside from that friendship, which Morrigan doesn't want to see them abandon for her sake. A Warden who was in love with Morrigan, on the other hand, might be more reasonably expected to build a new life around Morrigan and the child, no matter the price attached. "Love conquers all," and such.

[Brockololly]

Its likely a matter of trust more than anything. Seeing as the only ones that can go through are Wardens that romanced her, I guess that whole experience requires a certain amount of trust and then you add in the kid. Cause even if you didn't agree to the ritual, she still has the normal kid. And I'm pretty sure the dialogue in WH is slightly different if you had a Old God Baby as opposed to just a a normal child from having slept with Morrigan.

[Zjarcal]

I agree with Brock there (gasp! ).

Just like male friends can't go through the mirror either, it's really a case where only someone who was won her heart can convince her.

By the way, if a warden in love with her does the DR but then breaks off the romance prior to killing the Archdemon, can they go through the mirror? Because if they couldn't it would add more weight to the romance than the kid itself in terms of Morrigan letting them go through the mirror.

[KnightofPhoenix]

The easy answer is that they needed to have something special for Morrimancers that they can pretend to be a closure.

Instead, they ended up opening the door wide open.

[BlueMagitek]

Morrimancers? o_O

Wouldn't Mordens (Morrigan + Warden) be more appropriate?

[Boost32]

Zjarcal wrote...

I agree with Brock there (gasp! ).

Just like male friends can't go through the mirror either, it's really a case where only someone who was won her heart can convince her.

By the way, if a warden in love with her does the DR but then breaks off the romance prior to killing the Archdemon, can they go through the mirror? Because if they couldn't it would add more weight to the romance than the kid itself in terms of Morrigan letting them go through the mirror.

yes he can
you can go even if you started the romance, didnt sleep with morrigan, break with her and made the other warden do the dr

[Robert Cousland]

Im miffed that only the female Warden can become Queen of Ferelden, why cant the male Warden become King?

 

Fair is fair.

[Kynare]

I actually liked to headcanon this exact scenario with my Amell. If you romance Alistair and convince him to do the Dark Ritual, Kieran is essentially a product made from the Warden and Alistair's love. Morrigan felt nothing for Alistair, and it wouldn't have happened if the Warden hadn't convinced him to try it willingly.

 

Kieran could very well mean a lot to an Alistair-romance Warden when you consider he has Alistair's blood and she can't have children of her own. I always imagined that she trusted Morrigan and believed her to be one of her closest friends, so she was willing to take the risk with the Dark Ritual. And judging from the comic Gaider wrote about Morrigan's internal conflict when it came to the performing the Dark Ritual on the Warden's lover, it's evident that Morrigan considers her a very close friend too. She even states that she only has one friend, which is the Warden.

 

I guess I'm more willing to go that route because Alistair broke up with my Amell later, though. It's like, "We single chicks gotta stick together! Right Morrigan? *winknudge* ... Morrigan?" ... yeah.

[Vlada47]

Being a close friend with somebody doesn't mean she needs them around all the time. It can get old quickly... and feels kinda weird. 

[caradoc2000]

why cant the male Warden become King?

Because they necromance 4+ years old dead threads?

[Miss Golightly]

I've only ever had one really close friend in my life. I don't even label her as my friend, I see her my sister. I'll always be there for her, and I know she'll always be there for me.

I've had a few of boyfriends in my life, but I admit that my friendship with her is the closet human relationship I've ever had. She's my sister. I didn't think I could bond with another person quite like I did with her. We just click. So with that knowledge, I try to put myself into Morrigan's shoes here.

 

Now if I were Morrigan and I had to decide if I wanted to bring my "sister" with me into the unknown or to brave it alone... I'd have to think about it. I would believe that my dear friend had been through enough and didn't need me weighing her down with even more of my baggage. I'd feel as if I had been a bit of a burden to her and as if I had been a poor friend to her and it may even have been painful to face her after all of my deception. My friend would understand that I prefer to go about things alone.

 

If I were facing my lover, who is also the father of my child, I'd maybe be more willing to bring him with me if only for the sake of the child. I'd want my son to at least know who his father is. Morrigan doesn't know who her father is, but that doesn't mean Kieran has to live with the same fate. Morrigan made it clear that she would not raise her son than way Flemeth raised her, so having the male HoF in the picture adds to this. Also, just like men, women have certain.... needs to be fulfilled. You can't turn to your sister for those needs, unless you're wanting to cross into some murky territory.

[Natureguy85]

Morrimancers? o_O

Wouldn't Mordens (Morrigan + Warden) be more appropriate?

 

No

 

 

Im miffed that only the female Warden can become Queen of Ferelden, why cant the male Warden become King?

 

Fair is fair.

 

Anora will insist that you're Prince-Consort, but you can if you marry Anora as a male Human Noble.

[Ghost Gal]

A female Warden can't go with her through the eluvian because friendship is not as meaningful as romantic love (and by that, I mean sex and a kid), apparently.

[paramitch]

I adore Morrigan as one of the richest and most complex characters in DAO.

 

My female Warden definitely loved her and was near 100% approval, so I was bummed that their friendship still led to some game-distance when it came to the end of the game and "Witch Hunt."

 

At least Claudia Black's amazing, amazing voice work communicated both Morrigan's love and her conflicted feelings when it came to her mission with the female Warden who had become like a sister, and I did feel echoes of that again in "Witch Hunt" even though I really do feel that deserved at least just a bit more dialogue, darn it, and a few more reaction shots.

 

Basically, on the down side, I feel like it's all about who fathered the OGB even if that's not remotely who Morrigan's relationship was with. Which is a shame, because the character offered and deserved more complexity even in the origin story. As an abused child who had never had closeness with anyone, I was very moved when Morrigan cried at my Warden's gift of the mirror -- it was a little moment that made them family.

 

Then all the dialogue choices in "Witch Hunt" were so blunt and basic, most centering on Morrigan as a betrayor and villain. This never even occurred to me based on my character timeline. Do I think Morrigan is capable of cruel decisions? Yes, we saw she is. But my character really changed her simply because she showed her a sense of family, another way to fight and live.

 

So for it all to be thrown away in "Witch Hunt," aghghgh. I really was disappointed. I think the (faint/weak) best dialogue option was one of the few saying "we used to be friends," when to my character, she understood Morrigan's actions out of friendship (even the DR).

 

Yet I struggled with even that, because to me, we were still friends. My Warden only pursued her to make sure she was safe. They were still friends. Morrigan had after all, in my timeline, stayed and fought through the entire battle, had risked her life yet again (after countless times) and had absolutely done her part in the war, selflessly risking her life time and again. Her understanding that Morrigan could be thoughtless or cruel was mitigated by Morrigan's bravery, loyalty, and gradual changes toward affection and warmth.

As a player, WH disappointed me and felt very sexist. Morrigan is once more back to a fairly grey/dark jerky character, but even so, the guy who hated her (yet contributed freaking sperm to the OGB) can go through the Eluvian with her while her closest friend cannot, simply for being a female. Something's not right there.

[Natureguy85]

Why does she trust her lover more than her first, closest, and best friend? Wouldn't the friendship bond be just, or at least almost, as strong?

 

 

As a player, WH disappointed me and felt very sexist. Morrigan is once more back to a fairly grey/dark jerky character, but even so, the guy who hated her (yet contributed freaking sperm to the OGB) can go through the Eluvian with her while her closest friend cannot, simply for being a female. Something's not right there.

 

Morrigan never stopped being a fairly gray/dark jerky character. She just let your Warden past that a bit.

 

While it's certainly possible for a platonic friendship to be as strong or stronger than a romantic bond, that's dependent on the individual.  The romance is different than friendship for Morrigan. Please correct me and therefore ignore this point if I'm wrong, but Morrigan does not have conversations attempting to push away a Friend Warden as she does for a Warden who is romancing her, does she? This is hardly sexism.

 

There are two things that might change this though;

 

1) I didn't play Witch Hunt with either of my female Wardens. Can they at least ask to go with her?

 

2) Can a male Warden who didn't romance her go through with her? I don't think so, and if not, this eliminates the sexism claim because she treats a male friend the same as a female friend.

[Aren]

@Robert Cousland  King consort is available for the male human noble

 

Because they necromance 4+ years old dead threads?

Omg that was my thought when i read how much older the opening post was

 

Note

Ok i would like to share  for those who would like to read my opinion,not certainly for the opening who at this point is probably to the Bahamas or Saint tropez

 

 

Let's put aside Kieran for a moment

Morrigan allowing only a warden who romanced her to enter the Eluvian is reasonable since a Warden that romanced Morrigan is the only one  who can understand her deeply due to the fact that she gave only in this scenario that ring,which was a sort of key to read her feelings.

The epilogue of DAO of the ring is a proof of that.

she was lying to herself when she said that it was a gift for practicality,it wasn't,since its function was to create a magical link between them to help them to understand each other.

At the point of WH the Warden (and this is confirmed by the epilogue of DAO) perceived Morrigan's sorrow possibly more than once.

So no ,for Morrigan being a friend and being a lover it is not the same thing.

[DebatableBubble]

No. Male Warden x Morrigan is only Morri ship.