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Why is Ashley considered racist, but not the other party members?


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#226
lovgreno

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Mathy16 wrote...

In my eyes everyone is a racist in the ME universe:
- Mordin never expected one of his own to do stupid experiments, but he did expect it from a Krogan
- When on the flotilla you can hear a Quarian say: 'I never expected a HUMAN could speak that well'
- Krogan just hate every other species
- Shepard said something like this in LotSB: 'Shouldn't ou be dancing like every asari?'
- Batarians just hate humans
- There was that Turian during Thane's loyalty mission that was also anti-human
- There was an Asari on the Citadel that was also anti-human
- Pressly didn't like all those aliens aboard of the Normandy SR1
- If you let the council die, the turian shopkeeper on the Citadel is also anti-human
....

Almost everyone in Mass Effect is a Racist

Everybody is a little bit racists sometimes.

It takes a quint to admit it though.

Modifié par lovgreno, 26 juin 2011 - 09:38 .


#227
Greatsultan

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Haters gonna hate no matter how wrong they are

#228
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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lovgreno wrote...

The volus have basicaly no enemies and most strong players have a interest in seeing them safe and prosperous.


They have no enemies... which is why they need the turians to defend themselves, right?

Humans are not bullies. That is alien propaganda meant to shame humanity into compliance and subserviance to the Council. Every species has the right to achieve whater it can by any means necessary. The Council races did not get to the top of the hill by playing fair or nice.

#229
78stonewobble

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I kinda like racists. Some of my very best facepalms have come from debating with them.

Well I think each person in the world is entitled to their own oppinion as long as they don't try to force that oppinion on others. Especially through laws.

#230
Mykel54

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Let´s assume for a moment that Ashley is racist (more like specist anyway), i would still like her because of her character. Some people seems to compare being racist to being some kind of criminal, i know many people who have a racial prejudice due to bad experiences, this is the way nature tries to protect you from having new bad experiences. In the case of Ashley, she has had little to none contact with aliens, so her natural distrust to anything that isn´t human is perfectly normal.

#231
TobiTobsen

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PMC65 wrote...

V-rex wrote...
*snip*


Considering that this is well thought out, mature and fact-based .. it will be ignored by most. Image IPB

I for one, tip my hat to your response!


It always pains me to see V-Rex making good and tactful arguments about this topic that promtly get ignored by most of the people. It's a shame, it really is.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 26 juin 2011 - 11:02 .


#232
78stonewobble

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Personally, and based on previous experience, I pretty automatically assumed that a vietnamese person in DK has their own little store down on the corner.

Prejudice maybe... But on other hand to me it isn't negative. I admire their work ethics and pure stubbornnes to make a better life. Attractive qualities. Often it's to give their children a chance to get a good education and that they often do.

Actually theres no logical reason for the store assumption anymore. The vietnamese people I know have educations like engineers.


My point is that I don't think any of us are wholly free of making some kind of assumption based on presumed "traits" of a randomly selected group of "other" people.

It isn't bad aslong as you atleast allow other people to surprise you. Give people a chance to show their true selves.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 26 juin 2011 - 11:08 .


#233
Ianamus

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I think my main problem with Ashley came with her character direction in ME2.

In ME1 she started off as mistrustful of Aliens, but after working with Wrex, Garrus, Tali and Liara, as well as choosing the paragon options in conversation with her, she appeared to have made some real development, and begun to trust aliens.

Come Horizon she goes "You know I'm not a big fan of aliens" and just throws all of that development out of the window. Even worse when one of the aliens she supposedly learnt to trust, Garrus, is right there!

I really hope that ME3 can finalise the development that started in ME1 and have her realise that we need the aliens help to reclaim Earth.

#234
kumquats

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The scene on Horizon is a disaster, but being a fan is not always a good thing.
I think an alien 'fan' would support aliens, even if what they are doing is wrong.
Not being a 'fan' of anything doesn't mean you don't like it.

#235
Ianamus

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kumquats wrote...

The scene on Horizon is a disaster, but being a fan is not always a good thing.
I think an alien 'fan' would support aliens, even if what they are doing is wrong.
Not being a 'fan' of anything doesn't mean you don't like it.


That's an interesting way of looking at it, but I think that it was clear she was implying that she wasn't fond of aliens when she said it on Horizon.

#236
Skirata129

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Sand King wrote...

King Zeel wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Ashley's reasons just seem really petty compared to the races with century long blood feuds you know


incoming fangirl. I guess LOOKING AFTER THE HUMAN RACE SURVIVAL IS PETTY.

Some one needs to get of their high horse.

Apparently a lot of people on these forums have high horses... where can I get one? I like animals.

#237
Zamnil Blackaxe

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mrsph wrote...

Which is weird, because the Council booted out a long established alien race to appease the humans.

Not to mention giving humanity ludicrous power in only 30 years.


You mean the Batarians? they threw a hissy fit when the coucncil said the humans had as much a right to colonise worlds in the whatsitcalled traverse? and pulled their embassy and stormed off. Hardly the council booting anyone to appease the humans.

Unless you're talking about something I missed.

#238
Raanz

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The word racist is used pretty liberally in this thread. Another topic that makes me weep for the youth of this world.

#239
Lyahnn

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This is my first post here, and then i'm not particurarly fond of Ash, but I never considered her a racist. Sorry if this offends anyone, but i see Ash as a estereotipical USA nacionalist, or USA soldier, the type you imagine thinks USA is the best and the rest of countries are better or worse depending on their compliance with american politics and/or views. It´s like somebody insulting the french, or the canadians, or any random people of another country, simply because they are of another country and culture. It´s not racism. I´m from Spain, and here in Europe the spanish people have fame of having much fun, great parties, etc... and/or being bad workers, lazy, or something like that. It´s a theme of culture and in some cases geography. Here we have a lot of sun compared to other european countries, and it´s true that that influences the mood very much. Or we have siestas, that are part of our culture and make some people think we are lazy because we stop to sleep in the middle of the day. Different work horaries, different religius traditions, etc... all of that can make it difficult to truly understand other countries cultures without making somebody change. The ME interstelar politcs could compare to the ONU, and the views of other races in humans would be like if an Amazon tribe suddenly gained power in the first world. The vast mayority of people would not understand them, their traditions, or anything, and would view them as an oddity, a curiosity.

And that is when the diferences are only cultural, humans are all pretty much the same everywhere. Our biology plays an important part of how we are, how our brains works, what hormones are used in what cases, etc... all of that is the same. That´s why racism is so bad, because apart of culture, all the races are the same. With aliens is not so easy. It´s true that in personality is like with humans, there are good and bad people, but with aliens it goes beyond that. The asari only have one gender, that righ there is a mayor cultural sift, and one motive why we can´t expect them to understand everything about us. They have no point of reference for things like sexism, discrimination for gender, etc. The krogans are biology speaking killing machings, their very bodys make them more agressive than us, so is natural for other species to be very cautius with them. Look what happened with the rachni, nobody could speak with them, nobody learned that they were not themselves, and assumed that they were like that naturally. You can´t really understand a species that lives for millenia. The most the galactic races can do is understand that they can never understand the rest of races totally, and go for compromises and acceptance of their differences. So you can´t compare racism with specism in this case. Racism is intolerance of somebody that is like you except for the color. In ME, the other races aren´t like you at all, or are in some things but not all, so it´s normal to have misunderstandings.

The comments of the quarian in the flotilla about humans speaking so well isn´t racist. What does a quarian that maybe hasn´t seen a human in his live knows about us? For all he knew, we were mutes. He doesn´t have a frame of reference.

Ash is not racist, she´s like an american marine worried because a russian ex-KGB and a member of a guerrilla gang in south america are given free reign of the most advanced ship they have, so you understand her concerns more. Yes, it´s because they aren´t americans/humans, but not because she´s prejuicied, but because she doesn´t trust their countries. During the game she doesn´t "see the error of her ways", it´s more that she meets the people, and not the race. She`s probably still the same with the rest of the species as a whole. And Virmire doesn´t contradict that. In a combat situation, the rest of the people are soldiers too, and everybody has their part to play.

I don´t know if I have explained right, and then my english is badly written, but that´s what i think. And I don´t like Ash because I hate that type of patriotism, my country/planet/species firts, the rest second. I like spanish culture, but apart of that, i consider myself more european than spanish, politicaly speaking in global terms, and that if i have to chose, at all :P

#240
Skirata129

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personally I think we need to come up with a different word than racism too. racism is against other members of your own species with certain genetic differences, being afraid of other species or being wary of them is xenophobia.

#241
Guest_Imperium Alpha_*

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Zamnil Blackaxe wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Which is weird, because the Council booted out a long established alien race to appease the humans.

Not to mention giving humanity ludicrous power in only 30 years.


You mean the Batarians? they threw a hissy fit when the coucncil said the humans had as much a right to colonise worlds in the whatsitcalled traverse? and pulled their embassy and stormed off. Hardly the council booting anyone to appease the humans.

Unless you're talking about something I missed.


Batarians... No onr like them anyway B)

#242
Guest_mrsph_*

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Humanity is a blight upon galactic purity.

#243
Trinity66

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Mathy16 wrote...

In my eyes everyone is a racist in the ME universe:
- Mordin never expected one of his own to do stupid experiments, but he did expect it from a Krogan
- When on the flotilla you can hear a Quarian say: 'I never expected a HUMAN could speak that well'
- Krogan just hate every other species
- Shepard said something like this in LotSB: 'Shouldn't ou be dancing like every asari?'
- Batarians just hate humans
- There was that Turian during Thane's loyalty mission that was also anti-human
- There was an Asari on the Citadel that was also anti-human
- Pressly didn't like all those aliens aboard of the Normandy SR1
- If you let the council die, the turian shopkeeper on the Citadel is also anti-human
....

Almost everyone in Mass Effect is a Racist



You people really don't know the difference between hate and racism?
If krogans hates everybody that doesn't mean they are racist. I hate my neighbour, because she pissed me off. Am I racist? And it's most of the time one species hate on other, because of their history between them and not because they look weird and are not as capable or intelligent as others.
Ashley says she don't trust aliens. Like you can trust a human? Like there's no way human could not betray council or Shepard. Like human could not sabotage Normandy. Shepard gives people a chance no matter what race they are. 
I was just playing ME1 yesterday and I brought Ashley and Wrex when taking on Fist. Wrex of course shot him in the face and Ashley suddenly turn to him and says: Put down your weapon, krogan. Put black man instead krogan and what you get? It seems like she can't wait for opportunity to shoot some aliens.
I don't really hate her, but I sure don't like her. We'll se what's she like in ME3.

#244
VegasVance

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Skirata129 wrote...
Apparently a lot of people on these forums have high horses... where can I get one? I like animals.


I'm sorry the ones we did have around here are dead, and well certain subsets of the forum won't stop beating the deceased.

#245
Sorrel

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"If krogans hates everybody that doesn't mean they are racist. I hate my neighbour, because she pissed me off. Am I racist? "

Krogan dislike members of other species because they are a member of another species.
You dislike your neighbour because she personally offended you. Not because she is a member of another socio-economical group or genetic group. Frankly the two situations are not comparable at all and it shows you have little grasp of what racism is.

Prejudice is born from a sentient beings' need to classify and quantify. We like to sort things into readily identifiable groups with readily identifiable traits. Being very visual, appearance is usually a big indicator to us of what 'group' an individual belongs to. We then atrribute our personal experiences with previous members of that group and bam... We have prejudice. It comes in many flavours, both positive and negative kinds are still prejudicial. Having these kinds of remarks in a game touches upon an important part of our society and shows we are all still struggling to overcome that and move on from it. Humans in the ME universe seem to have mostly gotten over gender politics and racism within their own, but have fallen victim to ignorant instinct as have other races in the galaxy. We fear the unfamiliar which makes us hostile. It's how we respond to that fear -- by addressing it and learning to understand it, or by rejecting and isolating that defines an act of bigotry.

Personally I found ME to be a very progressive game for the most part and felt Ashley was a bit of a throwback in the ways she seemed so staunchly opposed to working with aliens. It smacked to me very strongly of bigotry and I didn't like it.

#246
Vamp44

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DoNotIngest wrote...

Collider wrote...

Ashley said...

"Jealous? Of you? You're not even white!"
"You want to get involved with some Asian? Go ahead."



Dayum, Ashley, that's... That's rough.



lmao....

#247
Trinity66

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I'm not even sure if we could say that Krogan hates "everyone". They are just agressive species and act agressive against all. They fight their own too. So, they are more like they either hate someone or they respect him. Like some Krogan respect Shepard for being strong warrior.

#248
VegasVance

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Trinity66 wrote...

I'm not even sure if we could say that Krogan hates "everyone". They are just agressive species and act agressive against all. They fight their own too. So, they are more like they either hate someone or they respect him. Like some Krogan respect Shepard for being strong warrior.


That and he has a quad.  

What it was free with the reconstruction process. :whistle:

#249
Eamon696

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Icinix wrote...

True Zarken wrote...

Seriously? Ash isn't racist. She's concerned about non-humans on the most advance alliance warship which I can understand. She's concerned for the safety of her commanding officer who has their guard down.

If she was racist she'd be with Cerberus and a supporter of the Terra Firma party which she is not.

I will never understand why so many people think Ash is a racist.


Amen.

Until I started spending time on these forums I had never heard anyone declare Ash as racist.

She claims that other races put themselves first before any other race, and shes right, humans do it, turians do it, asari do it.  In all of my playthroughs I have never, ever once thought Ash was racist, and will fail to understand how people see her as racist. Unless they're getting totally different dialogue to what I'm getting.

Also - Renegade shep says "Big Stupid Jellyfish" <--THAT is arguably one of, if not the most, racist comment in the entire ME series.


If you bring Ashley onto the Citadel and into the Embassies, she say she cant differentiate the aliens there from Animals.  Do you think that is racist?

#250
KainrycKarr

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michaelrsa wrote...

I gotta say Zeel, this is the first time I've ever interacted with you and already I'm loving it.

You've got the rage of Elite Midget and the opinions of Zulu. You're great, BSN has been sorely lacking a person like you around. Don't you change on me.


I personally think Elite Midget, Zulu, and Zeel are the same person.



























Chris Priestly, of course.