551 réponses à ce sujet

[KainrycKarr]

Also, Ashley isn't that racist. She doesn't seem to hate them. She just doesn't seem comfortable with them.

Kinda like the difference between a redneck and skinhead.

Modifié par KainrycKarr, 26 juin 2011 - 06:56 .

[Dileos]

All aliens are filthy xenos scum. Garrus and Wrex are the only exception.

..Mordin is fine too.

[S.A.K]

KainrycKarr wrote...

I personally think Elite Midget, Zulu, and Zeel are the same person.

Hah, that really can be.

Modifié par S.A.K, 26 juin 2011 - 07:04 .

[S.A.K]

Dileos wrote...

All aliens are filthy xenos scum. Garrus and Wrex are the only exception.

..Mordin is fine too.

You talk almost like ashly.

[dahoughtonuk]

Her views and her speech on Horizon make sense. It's known Ashley is rather outspoken about beliefs which many humans hide. The problems is not so much that Ashley is specieist (several others characters are) but that she's forthright. I actually respected her Horizon speech because it can be interpreted differently. If you assume species-ism, it does come across bad. But if you accept Ash's forthrightness as her defining characteristic which I did, her speech comes across much better. In fact it's better than Kaiden's.

[Omair]

OP,

There is one very simply reason why Ashley is targeted for the "racist" tag more than anyone else. The overly vocal group of Liara supporters from ME1 saw her as a threat to their beloved character and therefore villified her. Nevermind that Liara has the mind and emotional grasp of a pre-teen in the first game and romancing her is downright awkward. Ashley is more developed than any of the other LIs from a character backstory perspective, and she has her flaws, which make her a more believable character, but I could list Miranda, Illusive Man, anybody from Cerberus, Pressley, and various aliens who could be considered more far racist than her.

[Mongerty2]

I don't have any sort of fanboy or fangirl relationship with any of the characters, yet I still find her racist.

I always just figured the fact that she throws it out there so quickly is a bad sign. Sure, maybe the Quarians don't trust Geth, and the Salarians don't trust the Krogan. Those seem a bit more founded than "I don't trust Aliens". She combines them into one big group, making little distinction between the different cultures. Maybe she isn't racist, but she sure comes off as ignorant. I haven't over analyzed any of the lines, but she is the one that always seemed to be defined by that fear of Aliens, where everyone else mentioned it on the side. (except Mordin, but hell, half of his character missions are there just to explain and flesh out his relationship to the Krogran). I guess Bioware never really justified that blanket statement she made.

Or maybe I am a 16 year old fangirl, since those seem to be the only people you guys will allow to insult "Ash".

[Nerevar-as]

Her ideas completely miss the point alien races are also aliens to each other, not a humanity vs a single group. And so far races screwed by the Council have brought it upon themselves.

[Lyahnn]

It has been said before, but once again:

That isn´t racism, that´s nacionalism. She doesn´t hate aliens because they are aliens, she doesn´t trust them because they aren´t humans, and don´t have humans´ best interests at heart. You can say "I don´t trust chinese" and don´t be racist, just a capitalist whith issues with a comunist governtment. You aren´t generalizing and including every chinese person you meet, you´re talking in general, of the nation of China and their government as a whole. Political decisions like going to war, embargos, etc... are make by the governtments, not the common people, and in ME the mayor part of conversations about aliens are about the politics of the species, not the species in themselves.

[Palidane]

Alright, can we all stop using the word "racist"? Ashley says she is uncomfortable with Turians, not "short turians with dark skin/carapaces".

I think Ashley is buying into some common stereotypes, which is understandable, considering her past. I think her prime motivation is more political than xenophobic. She distrusts the Hierarchy, and thinks they are dangerous. She doesn't want them dead, but she acknowledges that they have their own motives and agendas, which might not line up with the System's Alliance.

This is all well and true, except she thinks that all turians represent the Hierarchy. This is an illogical, but not completely irrational sentiment. She is not saying "I hate anyone that isn't human" she is saying "The various alien species understandably look out for their own interests, and while they may lend a hand with some efforts, ultimately cannot be relied upon," This is sound reasoning, if mildly pessimistic. I think this "us vs. them" mentality also explains why she always refers to the Alliance and the Council. She rarely acknowledges the Salarien Unions, the Asari Republics, or the Turian Hierarchy. To, they're all just "the council races,", those with interests that differ from humanity.

I would say she is a cynic with some minor xenophobic tendencies. Nothing a good Paragon can't cure, as I do every play-through.

[Nerevar-as]

Palidane wrote...

This is all well and true, except she thinks that all turians represent the Hierarchy. This is an illogical, but not completely irrational sentiment. She is not saying "I hate anyone that isn't human" she is saying "The various alien species understandably look out for their own interests, and while they may lend a hand with some efforts, ultimately cannot be relied upon," This is sound reasoning, if mildly pessimistic. I think this "us vs. them" mentality also explains why she always refers to the Alliance and the Council. She rarely acknowledges the Salarien Unions, the Asari Republics, or the Turian Hierarchy. To, they're all just "the council races,", those with interests that differ from humanity.

I would say she is a cynic with some minor xenophobic tendencies. Nothing a good Paragon can't cure, as I do every play-through.

Having her defending the Council after grounding the Normandy was a WTF moment even after paragoning her.

[ReallyRue]

I noticed this too.

In ME1, Ashley has some pretty ignorant/suspicious attitudes towards aliens in general.
In ME1, Garrus has some pretty suspicious/derogatory opinions of krogan (and possibly quarians?).
In ME2, Mordin has some pretty derogatory opinions of krogan.

But Ashley tends to be the only one attacked for this. And just because she didn't trust aliens in ME1 doesn't mean she stays that way forever more. By the end of ME1 alone she's probably learnt more about them, and learnt Kaidan's "they're jerks and saints, just like us" lesson.

[Errol Dnamyx]

Eamon696 wrote...
If you bring Ashley onto the Citadel and into the Embassies, she say she cant differentiate the aliens there from Animals.  Do you think that is racist?

Come on, Elcor do look like space elephants and Hanar are squids.

I don't understand the blind trust for all the non-humans anyway. I mean they are aliens -lower beings who will someday find their place below the rightful rulers of the galaxy and with any luck, join the Protheans in their  extinction. After stopping the Reapers of course. 8)

Modifié par Errol Dnamyx, 26 juin 2011 - 08:37 .

[Dileos]

Eamon696 wrote...
If you bring Ashley onto the Citadel and into the
Embassies, she say she cant differentiate the aliens there from Animals.
 Do you think that is racist?

Well aside from Batarians, Asari and Quarians, the rest do look like animals.

Krogans have shark heads, Turians are very avian in appearence, Drell are frog people, Salarians look like geckos, Elcor are elephants and Hanar are hentai tentacle monsters.

Volus on the other hand kind of look like bowling balls with limbs.

Modifié par Dileos, 26 juin 2011 - 08:47 .

[mauro2222]

King Zeel wrote...

I also read your post v-rex and while I think you bring up good points. I dont think it's nearly as intricate as you make it sound. Your argument would apply if we were dealing with the sane side of Bioware fans, but we aren't. The type of people who attack Ashley, don't need a logical reason to do it. They only need their LI as some sort of buffer for their argument.

I don't know why you guys are wasting time trying to rationalize how these girls think. It's exactly as I put it; they need a method to validate their game relationship, so they go on the offensive.

it's the same thing with the s/s relationships, its not enough to just get a new character, they have to have all of them

Who... That's clearly you xD. I can't find one post in which you aren't harrasing people in the intent of proving something

[VoidCabbage]

PMC65 wrote...
Considering that this is well thought out, mature and fact-based .. it will be ignored by most. 

I for one, tip my hat to your response!

"I'm going to ignore the rest of the thread but insult everyone in it."

[Icinix]

Eamon696 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

True Zarken wrote...

Seriously? Ash isn't racist. She's concerned about non-humans on the most advance alliance warship which I can understand. She's concerned for the safety of her commanding officer who has their guard down.

If she was racist she'd be with Cerberus and a supporter of the Terra Firma party which she is not.

I will never understand why so many people think Ash is a racist.

Amen.

Until I started spending time on these forums I had never heard anyone declare Ash as racist.

She claims that other races put themselves first before any other race, and shes right, humans do it, turians do it, asari do it.  In all of my playthroughs I have never, ever once thought Ash was racist, and will fail to understand how people see her as racist. Unless they're getting totally different dialogue to what I'm getting.

Also - Renegade shep says "Big Stupid Jellyfish" <--THAT is arguably one of, if not the most, racist comment in the entire ME series.

If you bring Ashley onto the Citadel and into the Embassies, she say she cant differentiate the aliens there from Animals.  Do you think that is racist?

Racist, no.  Speaking perhaps what would be on the minds of a lot of people who had never been to the citadel before, you bet.  Most people would just keep it to themselves, so definitely a poor choice of words, but not her intent to be racist. If you had fifty new species of life that you had never encountered before, lined up standing / sitting nicely in a row. Would you automatically know what was sentient and what was not? Of course not. Not without some prompt of some kind.

[kumquats]

I just think people are more critical of Ashley because she is a human and just ignore the prejudice of the aliens.
We all know how the council races are treating Quarians and we know how the aliens view humans.
She doesn't like Cerberus or Terra Firma. And I would bet, if Tali is in any kind of danger, Ashley would come to the rescue.
I can understand Ashley more than the Turian Councilor.

[Dileos]

Also, the Turian gun store owner on the citadel is a racist a-hole, along with the Batarian bartender on Omega. Hell the bartender even poisons human customers.

[King Zeel]

Omair wrote...

OP,

There is one very simply reason why Ashley is targeted for the "racist" tag more than anyone else. The overly vocal group of Liara supporters from ME1 saw her as a threat to their beloved character and therefore villified her. Nevermind that Liara has the mind and emotional grasp of a pre-teen in the first game and romancing her is downright awkward. Ashley is more developed than any of the other LIs from a character backstory perspective, and she has her flaws, which make her a more believable character, but I could list Miranda, Illusive Man, anybody from Cerberus, Pressley, and various aliens who could be considered more far racist than her.

OMG. YES. YES. YES.

This post contains no nonsense. Everything in this post is nothing but truth!!!


This topic is over.

[Made Nightwing]

@King Zeel. Could you kindly stop acting like a child? Do you have something to say that isn't meant to provoke and confront? Ashley is painted as a racist because people sometimes misinterpret her character, not because of any particular group of fans attacking with deliberately vicious intent. So please, take a major step back and learn some basic internet etiquete.

[Icinix]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

Ashley is painted as a racist because people sometimes misinterpret her character, not because of any particular group of fans attacking with deliberately vicious intent.

Actually I'd say a lot of it has to do with people being put off by her admitted faith and nationalism. Both are concepts which more liberal western societies have increasingly begun to demonize.

THAT is an excellent point.

Edit: Yeah, I've got nothing more to add.  Its so true though.

Modifié par Icinix, 26 juin 2011 - 09:58 .

[slimgrin]

I can only hope they follow through with Ashley's personality in ME3. I disagreed with her about faith, aliens, just about everything, and that's why she seemed real to me. She's kinda an unusual character in that respect.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Made Nightwing wrote...

@King Zeel. Could you kindly stop acting like a child? Do you have something to say that isn't meant to provoke and confront? Ashley is painted as a racist because people sometimes misinterpret her character, not because of any particular group of fans attacking with deliberately vicious intent. So please, take a major step back and learn some basic internet etiquete.

Never going to happen Nightwing.
He is our replacement for Extreme One and Elite Midget.
(not a very good replacement mind you but we've got to work with what we've got)