551 réponses à ce sujet

[Nerevar-as]

Dileos wrote...

Also, the Turian gun store owner on the citadel is a racist a-hole, along with the Batarian bartender on Omega. Hell the bartender even poisons human customers.

The turian has reasons for it. If you saved the council he´s rather friendly and funny.

[Dileos]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Dileos wrote...

Also, the Turian gun store owner on the citadel is a racist a-hole, along with the Batarian bartender on Omega. Hell the bartender even poisons human customers.

The turian has reasons for it. If you saved the council he´s rather friendly and funny.

Pretty flimsy reasons. I think destroying the giant space ship/harvester of souls takes priority over saving 3 incompetent jackasses at the cost of Human AND Turian lives.

[Nerevar-as]

Yeah, some upstarts let the current goverment die and put themselves in charge. I can see how the average citizen can perfectly understand that. The point is not the council, the problem is humanity calls all the shots if you let the council die even if that wasn´t your intention in ME1.

[Dileos]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Yeah, some upstarts let the current goverment die and put themselves in charge. I can see how the average citizen can perfectly understand that. The point is not the council, the problem is humanity calls all the shots if you let the council die even if that wasn´t your intention in ME1.

And humanity seems to be doing a very good job, as nothing on the Citadel has changed other than the tightening of security.

Which needed to be done in the aftermath of something like...oh I don't know.... a Reaper attaching itself to the Citadel.

[Nerevar-as]

Orwelian measures are not my idea of tightening securities. In ME2 default humanity is playing bully. I wonder about the status quo after ME3, as humans seem the Reapers main target.

[ObserverStatus]

Dileos wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...
Yeah, some upstarts let the current goverment die and put themselves in charge. I can see how the average citizen can perfectly understand that. The point is not the council, the problem is humanity calls all the shots if you let the council die even if that wasn´t your intention in ME1.

And humanity seems to be doing a very good job, as nothing on the Citadel has changed other than the tightening of security.
Which needed to be done in the aftermath of something like...oh I don't know.... a Reaper attaching itself to the Citadel.

You can't even inquire about reapers these days without being reported to c-sec.  Forgive me if I don't see that as doing a good job.

[Nerevar-as]

The turian still sells you, he just doesn´t like you, although with the renegade persuade at least he respects Shepard. What I mean is the turian acts because of humanity actions, not a dislike just for being human. Ash is more a matter of being too cynical.

[Weiser_Cain]

'I just dislike all (insert species) because I'm lumping them all together because I'm a racist, or I guess speciest.'

[Dileos]

bobobo878 wrote...

Dileos wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...
Yeah, some upstarts let the current goverment die and put themselves in charge. I can see how the average citizen can perfectly understand that. The point is not the council, the problem is humanity calls all the shots if you let the council die even if that wasn´t your intention in ME1.

And humanity seems to be doing a very good job, as nothing on the Citadel has changed other than the tightening of security.
Which needed to be done in the aftermath of something like...oh I don't know.... a Reaper attaching itself to the Citadel.

You can't even inquire about reapers these days without being reported to c-sec.  Forgive me if I don't see that as doing a good job.

Ever heard of supressing information to prevent mass panic?

[DialupToaster]

Do you guys remember how the war with the aliens kinda screwed her family over? Grandfather discharged from the army? Her FATHER working himself to DEATH to make up for his father's surrender to SAVE HIS MEN?

[PsychoBlonde]

BluMighty wrote...

Am I the only one who noticed that while Ashley has been trashed for being "racist", other crewmates in both Mass Effect 1 and 2 make racist comments as well? 

I'm going to give my take on this.  There's a difference between making generalizations based on available information: "Krogan are generally warlike and brutal and Wrex is different from this" or "Quarians foolishly delved into forbidden technology and ought to be ashamed of themselves" and saying what Ashley said, which was, essentially, members of other species are *not as important* as humans simply because they *aren't human*.  Although she phrased this as: members of other species will think that humans aren't as important as members of their own species simply due to species membership, so we ought to do the same.

It is not uncommon for groups to choose to exhibit common character traits, nor is it wrong to have certain expectations based on those commonly-exhibited character traits.  Where this can turn into stereotyping and racism is when people extrapolate far ahead of their data based on a detail that is actually irrelevant to the *chosen* traits.  For instance, if I were a small shopowner and a black gentleman in a polo shirt and khakis came in, looked through the merchandise, chatted up the clerk, and left, why would I suspect him of wrongdoing?  If the same man came in wearing huge baggy pants falling off his ass, some kind of sports team shirt, multiple neck chains and rings, then spent quite a long time hanging out around the back of the shop, then belligerantly accused the clerk of staring, made a huge fuss over the price of the item he wanted and left in a huff,  yeah, I'd consider that rather rude and suspicious.  But of course, if I said he was acting like a shoplifter, that'd be "racist".  (And, from my personal experience with retail, the first guy is just as likely to be a shoplifter as the second.  That's why you train your staff to be *conscientious* rather than jumping up and down about their suspicions.)

Krogan being belligerant and warlike is a chosen trait.  Quarians being naive and self-centered is a chosen trait.  People being human is NOT a chosen trait.  By focussing on the UNCHOSEN trait as the measure of value (given, even subjective value), Ashley is being racist, while Garrus was not.

Modifié par PsychoBlonde, 26 juin 2011 - 11:02 .

[Seboist]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

Ashley is painted as a racist because people sometimes misinterpret her character, not because of any particular group of fans attacking with deliberately vicious intent.

Actually I'd say a lot of it has to do with people being put off by her admitted faith and nationalism. Both are concepts which more liberal western societies have increasingly begun to demonize.

Hit the nail on the head here. She gets attacked for her faith when all she says is that she believes in a higher power. It's ridiculous.

[PsychoBlonde]

Seboist wrote...

Hit the nail on the head here. She gets attacked for her faith when all she says is that she believes in a higher power. It's ridiculous.

I was rather put off by that discussion in the game, but it was mostly because she pulled the typical asinine bit of assuming that atheists don't believe in ANYTHING because they don't believe in GOD.  If she wants to believe in something, that's her business, but it doesn't give her license to be insulting.

Granted, I know plenty of atheists who believe some similar generalizations about religious people, such as, they're credulous, or afraid to face facts, or whatever.

[Dileos]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Hit the nail on the head here. She gets attacked for her faith when all she says is that she believes in a higher power. It's ridiculous.

What I like about this is that Ashley is visibly nervous when she admits that to you. Bioware clearly anticipated the fan reaction to it.

When you consider that a vast majority of RPG players are either angsty teenagers or introverted social morons, their reaction to something like religion seems pretty obvious.

But yes, Bioware and the voice actress did a good job of adding emotion to that line.

[Weiser_Cain]

Dileos wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Hit the nail on the head here. She gets attacked for her faith when all she says is that she believes in a higher power. It's ridiculous.

What I like about this is that Ashley is visibly nervous when she admits that to you. Bioware clearly anticipated the fan reaction to it.

When you consider that a vast majority of RPG players are either angsty teenagers or introverted social morons, their reaction to something like religion seems pretty obvious.

But yes, Bioware and the voice actress did a good job of adding emotion to that line.

Wow, way to slam the non believers and RPG players, keep it up and you're going to get this thread closed.

[Weiser_Cain]

Who, me?

[Dileos]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

Dileos wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Hit the nail on the head here. She gets attacked for her faith when all she says is that she believes in a higher power. It's ridiculous.

What I like about this is that Ashley is visibly nervous when she admits that to you. Bioware clearly anticipated the fan reaction to it.

When you consider that a vast majority of RPG players are either angsty teenagers or introverted social morons, their reaction to something like religion seems pretty obvious.

But yes, Bioware and the voice actress did a good job of adding emotion to that line.

Wow, way to slam the non believers and RPG players, keep it up and you're going to get this thread closed.

I've nothing against "non-believers", being one myself. But the blind hatred towards something so trivial as a video game characters belief in an imaginary beard man is pretty amusing.