551 réponses à ce sujet

[NPH11]

Probably already mentioned by quite a few people, but she's not racist. She's xenophobic more than anything. She has had few experiences with alien races and her grandfather was basically ostracized because he surrendered Shanxi to the Turians. It's not even that she distrusts individuals, but she is suspicious of the alien politics and the potential impact it could have on humanity. The reason she appears outwardly hostile towards some of the aliens encountered through the story is because she sees them as a representative of their respective species and thus thinks that they could be working against them.


Over time throughout ME1 she seemed to soften up, which makes sense considering she had now had contact with individual aliens and realized that they were individuals and not representative of their entire race. Garrus is a Turian who has no qualms against challenging the system to get the job done, compared with most Turians who are seen as strong supporters of a political system and unwilling to step out of line. Wrex is a Krogan who actually has some pretty deep opinions and ultimately wants his species to rebuild itself, compared to most Krogan who are seen as unintelligent mercenaries who don't care that their species is dying. Liara is shy, introverted and at many points seems in over her head, yet ends up competing with Ashley for affection (if the Shepard is male), compared with most Asari who are seen as strong, socially adept and somewhat promiscuous. Tali is technically skilled and maintains an upbeat attitude despite the majority of the galaxy shunning her entire race, compared to most Quarians who are seen as thieves and beggars.


I think if Ashley joins the team in ME3, we'll see that her opinions have changed.

Modifié par NPH11, 26 juin 2011 - 11:52 .

[Lyahnn]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

 What I mean is the turian acts because of humanity actions, not a dislike just for being human.

No, he dislikes you for being human. Why he dislikes humans is irrelevant.

Irrelevant? You´re saying his reasons for discriminating are irrelevant, that he´s a racist and that´s that? That´s stupid and too much "politicaly correct" mentality for my tastes. Is like saying that if a gang of blacks/latinos/koreans/blue-people arrives in my zone and start to give beatings to people, i can´t hate them because they are of another race and that is racism. If they where white, then yes, hate to your hearts content. WTF??? Racism is horrible, yes, but you can´t use it to labell people that have a legitimate reason for their hate, as opossed to "they just are different" It´s like if you say that discriminating against the ****s in WWII was racism

[Lyahnn]

Uhm, it censores that, but well, i´m not talking of jews, nor germans in general, so everybody should know what i meant

[Nightdragon8]

you know, I have always classified racism as more of the violently stuiped type. Because in reality we all have it with us. Its part of being different

She doesn't like them on a human vessel and on the most advanced ship in the fleet. I understand that fully. Those are valid reasons imo. Your quoting something that was more than likly said in a outrage because if I remember correctly that was from the love triangle that happened on the ship.

In my mind the way she said it, it was like she wanted babies for herself. Or was at least open to that idea.

She doesn't "Hate" aliens she doesn't "trust" them. She doesn't trust them for good reason. Now this is ME1 Ash, we honestly don't know ME 2/3 Ash, as we only got a whatfor for being with Cerberus.And she was generally pissed that Shep didn't call her up at all.

I think everyone is making a mountain out of a mole hill on this subject.

Yes I do think she is a bit of a xenophoibe but thats about it. In fact i think you people are forgetting Ash's yelling at teh Terra Ferma over useing Shanxi as the example for tehre miss trust. So in a way its not that she is racist or a full blown Xenophoibe is just that she doesn't trust the polotions the other goverments to really do anything to help humanity.

Because she does trust Garus Tali and Liara (eventually) with Wrex... I think she trusts him about as much as anyone can truly trust a Krogan.

So I think her true nature is that, she doesn't trust the alien goverments to treat humans as equals. Everyone else has to prove there trust.

[Mathias]

I hate Americans sometimes. My people are so damn sensitive and politically correcting towards EVERYTHING. I miss the 90s.

[Lyahnn]

But it was Shepard that let the council die, gave power to humans, and created that situation, so how is extrange that the guy hates your guts? And from what people are saying, it isn´t just that, it´s that humans create a pretty bad atmosphere and are the big bad bullies. That isn´t racism, that´s a natural reaction. Ignorant, but natural. Look what a lot people think of USA after the last decades: bullies. That isn´t racism, that´s stupidity

racism or racialism

— n
1. the belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors and that this endows some races with an intrinsic superiority over others
2. abusive or aggressive behaviour towards members of another race on the basis of such a belief

Sorry, but semantics are important to me, i don´t like misunderstandings very much and i give perhaps too much importance to words, but i have seen to many politicians use words to cause trouble, saying one thing and meaning another, or saying things that don´t anything to do but appear to, to cover up something. People saying that the turian is racist says that he hates humans because he considers himself superior, and automatically his arguments lose weight, because racism doesn´t have a valid reason. Is he wrong to hate all humans in general? Yes, but not for that should we call him racist, discount what he says, and ignore the very good reasons he has for thinking like he does. It cheapens the situation. Or if you say that the humans have done nothing wrong, that they are in the right and the rest not, then the racist is you. Although if you are in that situation to begin with is because Shepard didn´t save the Council, so i suposse your Shepard could be racist

Apart of that, if somebody is offended by something i say, sorry. I tend to put too much entusiasm in my arguments and sometimes i don´t express my ideas clearly, but for me this are debates, not discussions. I love to pick apart arguments and all that, but normaly is nothing personal

[Katana_Master]

Going back to the original question; why does everyone hate Ashley for SEEMING to be racist, and not calling anyone else out on ACTUALLY being racist, here's my opinion.

In modern-day America, making a comment that, when cross-examined, dissected, held up to the light and x-rayed; which after all that, may, out of context, imply that you have some sort of grudge against women/blacks/muslims/whoever, will INSTANTLY make you a social pariah. On the other hand, if someone from one of those same groups says something that makes it ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that they are racist towards men/whites/christians, the comment will be ignored.

Politcal Correctness really has gone too far. In this case, aliens have been cast in the role of the 'discriminated against' groups. Since they've been painted in that light, the natural reaction of people raised in this atmosphere is to assume that they are blameless and can do no wrong. Is it really any surprise that Ashley, the human, is attacked as a racist for merely being cautious about other politcal groups?

For Ashley, racial differences aren't really the thing she's worried about, it's more the difference between countries, not races, that she's worried about. It's like an American worrying that China could very well be a threat to the United States, and being accused of racism against asians.

I have no grudge against people of any gender or ethnicity. I just recognize that modern-day society has gone so far into trying to make those ethnic groups equal, that they've actually put them on pedestals.

EDIT:  Cue the racism accusations.

Modifié par Katana_Master, 27 juin 2011 - 06:21 .

[Greatsultan]

Wow...I thought people already forget the "Ashley racist" thing as soon as she let her hair down

[Clover Rider]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Katana_Master wrote...

In modern-day America, making a comment that, when cross-examined, dissected, held up to the light and x-rayed; which after all that, may, out of context, imply that you have some sort of grudge against women/blacks/muslims/whoever, will INSTANTLY make you a social pariah. On the other hand, if someone from one of those same groups says something that makes it ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that they are racist towards men/whites/christians, the comment will be ignored.

Politcal Correctness really has gone too far. In this case, aliens have been cast in the role of the 'discriminated against' groups.

In Mass Effect if a human is prejudiced against aliens it is portrayed as a very bad thing that we should want to fix. It is seen as negative and is taken seriously most of the time.

When aliens however are prejudiced, mainly against humans, it is passed off as being justified or played for laughs (the turian merchant refusing to give a refund to the human).

They are "cool aliens" so its okay. Ashley isn't a cool alien and worse yet, she's probably a republican!

Do they even still have republicans in Mass Effect?

Modifié par Some Geth, 27 juin 2011 - 09:36 .

[ObserverStatus]

Saphra Deden wrote...

In Mass Effect if a human is prejudiced against aliens it is portrayed as a very bad thing that we should want to fix. It is seen as negative and is taken seriously most of the time.

When aliens however are prejudiced, mainly against humans, it is passed off as being justified or played for laughs (the turian merchant refusing to give a refund to the human).

They are "cool aliens" so its okay. Ashley isn't a cool alien and worse yet, she's probably a republican!

That's different, when shepard walks into the turian merchants shop, he doesn't murder him.

[ObserverStatus]

Saphra Deden wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

That's different, when shepard walks into the turian merchants shop, he doesn't murder him.

What are you talking about?

The Turian shopkeeper may be racist, but at least he didn't murder Wrex like ashley, maybe that's why he gets a better wrap.

[TheChris92]

I find it interesting that people consider her a racist in the first place.

[Matchy Pointy]

I dont remember a single instant where Ashley said she considered aliens to be less then humans, she just wanted humans to be equal to them and to be respected in the galaxy. That's not the same thing as being racist.

Modifié par Matchy Pointy, 27 juin 2011 - 09:58 .

[TobiTobsen]

bobobo878 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

That's different, when shepard walks into the turian merchants shop, he doesn't murder him.

What are you talking about?

The Turian shopkeeper may be racist, but at least he didn't murder Wrex like ashley, maybe that's why he gets a better wrap.

Murder Wrex? The last time I checked she defended her superior officer who was about to be murdered by a raging Krogan. On Shepards comand actually. What do you think Shep meant when he said that she should watch Wrex when he tried to talk with him.

[Ulathar]

"Why is Ashley considered racist [...] ?"

Because some misunderstand/misunderstood her character or rather something she said.

[ObserverStatus]

TobiTobsen wrote...
Murder Wrex? The last time I checked she defended her superior officer who was about to be murdered by a raging Krogan. On Shepards comand actually. What do you think Shep meant when he said that she should watch Wrex when he tried to talk with him.

Wrong, my orders were "just drop it, he'll be fine" but instead she decided to blow his head off.  Sure Wrex got mad, but everyone gets mad sometimes.  I can't have Ashley murdering my crewmembers whenever they get mad.

[GodWood]

bobobo878 wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...
Murder Wrex? The last time I checked she defended her superior officer who was about to be murdered by a raging Krogan. On Shepards comand actually. What do you think Shep meant when he said that she should watch Wrex when he tried to talk with him.

Wrong, my orders were "just drop it, he'll be fine" but instead she decided to blow his head off.  Sure Wrex got mad, but everyone gets mad sometimes.  I can't have Ashley murdering my crewmembers whenever they get mad.

Shepard was failing at calming the enraged krogan and he had a shot-gun pointed at him.


She shot Wrex to save Shepard not because "GAH EH'S AN ALEEIN!!!ELEVENTYQ!"

[Giggles_Manically]

True.

Better to lose Wrex then she Shepard shot in the face... right before a very important mission.
I dont think even Shepard could survive that

[Lyahnn]

Saphra Deden, i did say that the turian is wrong to hate all humans, that is discrimination, yes. My issue is with calling him, or Arshley, racist, when i haven´t seen evidence that they think themselves superior to the others. They have valid concerns, even if you don´t agree. Racists don´t have any reason apart of a genetic difference.

bobobo878, i haven´t see that scene, i alwas save Wrex, but from what i understand, Ashley only shots Wrex if you fail to convince him to calm down and destroy the cure. If that actions activates is because it´s programmed like that, after trying and failing to talk to him. There are other points in the game when you can´t talk somobody down, here is the same. The diference is that here, the person to make the shot is Ashley, and that´s because she is a soldier, and it goes with her caracter to be direct. Kaidan controls himself too much, but it´s their job to protect their commander