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[littlezack]

slimshedim wrote...

BluMighty wrote...-

Am I the only one who noticed that while Ashley has been trashed for being "racist", other crewmates in both Mass Effect 1 and 2 make racist comments as well? 





Forgive me if this has been discussed before, but I've been marathoning the Mass Effect series this week, and I just happened to notice that Ashley isn't the only one guilty of making racist remarks, but yet, she's the only one ever called out on it.

Where's racism in these links, especially in the first linked vid? Compare those comments to Ashe's dog comment, for instance and you might learn something.

Why do people consider Ashley Williams as a racist? Maybe because she is an openly racist christian, who excels at annoying people with her silly poetry, her religious BS, her billions of complexes/issues and the ability to include racist remarks in almost every situation or dialogue option. Maybe that's why.

I'm glad you can let her die on Virmire but then you're stuck with the exceptionally boring wussy Kaidan. At least he's got no screws loose...but also no interesting personality.

Did we even play the same game?

Ashely brings up her religion once, and only if you press her about it. Same with the poetry. You make it sound like she's the alien equivalent of a KKK member, which, even if  you think she is racist, is really pushing it.

[PsychoBlonde]

littlezack wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...

The telltale sign of Ash being a racist was her comparison of nonhuman sapients to a lifeform that is less than sapient. Remember her dog comparison?  It's one thing not to trust them, it's another to say that they'd abandon them if they became inconvenient.  That there is the definition of racism: favoring one's race to the detriment of others.

In that comparison, humans were the dog.

It doesn't matter what race you consider to be the dog.  It's still racism--because you're considering their RACE to be the primary important factor about them, instead of any chosen quality.

[PsychoBlonde]

Saphra Deden wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

I was rather put off by that discussion in the game, but it was mostly because she pulled the typical asinine bit of assuming that atheists don't believe in ANYTHING because they don't believe in GOD.  If she wants to believe in something, that's her business, but it doesn't give her license to be insulting.

If you believe in any gods you are not an atheist.

So, believing in something automatically equates to believing in a "god" or a "higher power"?  No.  I believe in human volition.  I believe in reason.  I believe the universe is a place of wonders.  Where's the god in that?

I also believe in precise use of language.

[littlezack]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

littlezack wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...

The telltale sign of Ash being a racist was her comparison of nonhuman sapients to a lifeform that is less than sapient. Remember her dog comparison?  It's one thing not to trust them, it's another to say that they'd abandon them if they became inconvenient.  That there is the definition of racism: favoring one's race to the detriment of others.

In that comparison, humans were the dog.

It doesn't matter what race you consider to be the dog.  It's still racism--because you're considering their RACE to be the primary important factor about them, instead of any chosen quality.

All it was really saying was that, in the end, people will look out for their own species first. Turians, on the whole, will help Turians before they help humans. That's not to say Turians can't work with humans, but if push comes to shove and they have to make a choice, they'll put the priorities of their own race first. Which isn't racism so much as it's common sense.

It was a poorly worded statement, but that alone doesn't make Ashely racist. As I'm sure someone's pointed out, you can find more blatant examples of racism from much more liked characters, like Mordin, who scoffs at the very idea of a Krogan being smart enough to qualify as a scientist.

[Dean_the_Young]

Or an agnostic. Or a deist (of the clockmaker school of theology).

[SlottsMachine]

 Look, I love Wrex as much as the next person............



Sorry, wrong image. Here's Wrex.

[Wereparrot]

GeneralSlotts193 wrote...

 Look, I love Wrex as much as the next person............



Sorry, wrong image. Here's Wrex.

Can't see the difference

[Zanallen]

Krogans are based on bats, actually.

[Made Nightwing]

Dammit, now I have an image in my head of Wrex saying: I'm Batman.

Oh and yeah, Cynicism, Nationalism and Racism are three different things, learn to tell the difference.

[Ophiskc]

Ashley - aliens

Seriously, her prejudice about other races + the fact that she killed Wrex without your permission while speaking with him; made me to save Kaiden over her

Modifié par Ophiskc, 29 juin 2011 - 09:18 .

[Made Nightwing]

Ophiskc wrote...

Ashley - aliens


Seriously, her prejudice about other races + the fact that she killed Wrex without your permission while speaking with him; made me to save Kaiden over her

Not prejudiced against other races, just cynical about loyalties. Specifically states that she doesn't think humans have some kind of divine mandate to rule over aliens, just that humanity needs to look out for itself.

She killed Wrex because he was angry, you had failed to talk him down and he was pointing a gun at you. She saved her commanding officer from certain death. In any current military she would be commended for decisive action.

[jamesp81]

1136342t54 wrote...

Sierra Crysis wrote...
Well we know she buried her dad, which seems aloft from say blasting them into space or incinerating them that would probably be the norm of the day. We also know she believes he went to heaven or wherever. Whether it's Christian or not, it seems to be based on Christianity.  And those expressions look more like... "Ew.." Or.. "No-good-aliens.." than offended or angry. This of course could be me relating it to some of her dialogue and nothing at all.

I wasn't trying to imply there that her Christianity/Or whatever, lets just say belief has to do with her racism, I was just trying saying what she reminds me of.

I see what your trying to say but it wouldn't make much sense since Christianity doesn't really seem that against aliens. Even Cerberus had to assasinate a pope because he wasn't as pro human as they wanted. In Revelations they talked about how many religions had to adapt to the possibility of alien species and become more accepting of it. More than likely Religion doesn't have anything to do with it if it did I would be really dissappointed with Bioware.

Interesting point of fact related to the Cerberus/Pope thing.  The modern Catholic church has already declared that they think aliens may exist.  It's religious doctrine now if you're a catholic.

Now, being a baptist myself, it doesn't apply to me.  But I kind of have a gut feeling that alien life of some kind does exist.  I obviously have no concrete proof that it does, though.  Just a gut feeling

[jamesp81]

falconlord5 wrote...

Ash's views actually tend to more realpolitik, then racism.

Ash expects politicians of all races to utter snots (and, lets face it, they are). She's expecting a double cross based on political expiedency (which we see, multiple times, from every politician in the game). It's a cynical look at the world, but BioWare seems to back her up: every time things get tight, somebody will screw you over.

Also, if a senior NCO didn't mention the dangers of having several foreign nationals (which is what alien means, by the way) on board a highly advanced frigate, they should be stripped of rank. Even if the commander has good reasons for what they're doing, they should be aware of the problems inherent in such a plan.

I agree 100% here.  She didn't trust the council, assuming all politicians would cover their own asses at someone else's expense and, lo and behold, they did.

[jamesp81]

Kyrene wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Eire Icon wrote...

Why would you consider Tali a greater security risk? The Alliance could wipe out the migrant fleet in a heartbeat

Quarians live a hand to mouth existence and they have to scramble to make ends meet.  It would not be a stretch to think Tali might sell information on the construction of the Normandy to raise funds for the Migrant Fleet.

^ this. Whether or not the migrant fleet is a threat, Tali stealing data (or asking for data like with the geth data for her Pilgrimage) is the bigger immediate security threat. And she's forever in the engine room, the nasty little thieving gypsy.

Once I got know her, I never considered her a nasty thieving gypsy.  I didn't consider her that beforehand either.  I was approaching the situation from a standpoint of not knowing her yet, that's all.

[jamesp81]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I would have liked an option to kick her out of the engine room in ME1.

Interesting thing here.  I don't know how the Alliance military runs, but in modern militaries, the Chief Engineer is essentially God inside the engine room, moreso than you'd think.  It's even more prevalent on civilian ships and boats, such as river going towboats.  My dad and grand dad were chief engineers on towboats.  The short version of the situation was that the captain had virtually no authority inside the engine room.  Hell, some engineers in that company wouldn't even permit the captain to come in to the engine room.

[jamesp81]

MadCat221 wrote...

The telltale sign of Ash being a racist was her comparison of nonhuman sapients to a lifeform that is less than sapient. Remember her dog comparison?  It's one thing not to trust them, it's another to say that they'd abandon them if they became inconvenient.  That there is the definition of racism: favoring one's race to the detriment of others.

Humans were the dog in that analogy.  So, is she racist against humans:huh:

[jamesp81]

slimshedim wrote...

BluMighty wrote...

Am I the only one who noticed that while Ashley has been trashed for being "racist", other crewmates in both Mass Effect 1 and 2 make racist comments as well? 





Forgive me if this has been discussed before, but I've been marathoning the Mass Effect series this week, and I just happened to notice that Ashley isn't the only one guilty of making racist remarks, but yet, she's the only one ever called out on it.

Where's racism in these links, especially in the first linked vid? Compare those comments to Ashe's dog comment, for instance and you might learn something.

Why do people consider Ashley Williams as a racist? Maybe because she is an openly racist christian, who excels at annoying people with her silly poetry, her religious BS, her billions of complexes/issues and the ability to include racist remarks in almost every situation or dialogue option. Maybe that's why.

I'm glad you can let her die on Virmire but then you're stuck with the exceptionally boring wussy Kaidan. At least he's got no screws loose...but also no interesting personality.

<_<

[1136342t54_]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

It doesn't matter what race you consider to be the dog.  It's still racism--because you're considering their RACE to be the primary important factor about them, instead of any chosen quality.

Actually no it isn't really you are thinking about it as what people consider as racism between humans instead of racism between races. Now what Ashley said was true of any race if the Turians only way to survive was to throw the Asari under the rug I'd bet that most Turians would go for it. Its not racism its natural for a species to care a bit more for there own instead of others in those situations.

[BluMighty]

slimshedim wrote...
Where's racism in these links, especially in the first linked vid? Compare those comments to Ashe's dog comment, for instance and you might learn something.

Why do people consider Ashley Williams as a racist? Maybe because she is an openly racist christian, who excels at annoying people with her silly poetry, her religious BS, her billions of complexes/issues and the ability to include racist remarks in almost every situation or dialogue option. Maybe that's why.

I'm glad you can let her die on Virmire but then you're stuck with the exceptionally boring wussy Kaidan. At least he's got no screws loose...but also no interesting personality.

1. There's only one conversation about religion in the game, and she doesn't say anything about being a Christian. Funny how you yourself are displaying your intolerance and hatred, though.

2. There's, what, one conversation about how she thinks the Council is screwing them? A lot of people think the Council is incomptent/self serving. Kaidan says the same thing, and no one thinks he's racist.

[Garrison2009]

1136342t54 wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

It doesn't matter what race you consider to be the dog.  It's still racism--because you're considering their RACE to be the primary important factor about them, instead of any chosen quality.

Actually no it isn't really you are thinking about it as what people consider as racism between humans instead of racism between races. Now what Ashley said was true of any race if the Turians only way to survive was to throw the Asari under the rug I'd bet that most Turians would go for it. Its not racism its natural for a species to care a bit more for there own instead of others in those situations.

This is exactly what Ashley meant! I find it ridiculous how many people misunderstand what she's saying and simply and automatically label her a 'racist' when in fact she probably has the most concise and realistic view of the galaxy of any of your squadmates.

I find it even MORE ridiculous when those very same people turn around and gripe about how the council treats Shepard in the game. Isnt the council racist for keeping humanity down as much as it does? Arent they racist for labeling shepard as insane because of his belief in the Reapers? In short people, we encounter alot of individuals, alien and otherwise, in the game that are prejiduced against some other race, if not all other races but their own. And why arent they the ones being fixated on (Like many fixate on Ash)? Because, they arent human. People see a human saying something against aliens and they get all up in arms againt him/her, and isnt that really racial at this point? Doesnt that make the people, who are ok with aliens saying bad stuff about other aliens but cant stand a human even IMPLYING something bad about them, racist themselves?

Modifié par Garrison2009, 29 juin 2011 - 11:54 .

[AresXX7]

Saphra Deden wrote...

That's news to me but the option should have at least been present, even if it meant Adams overruled you with his Chief Engineer powers.

Actually, Shepard did ask Adams if he wanted her removed, but he said no because he was impressed with her skills.

Even though it wasn't player initiated, the convo still happened.

[Good Chaos7]

Comparing an intelligent life species e.g. Mordin Solus to a dog..
Not to mention the outright racist thing she says e.g. "I can't tell the aliens from the animals"