Comparing an intelligent life species e.g. Mordin Solus to a dog.. Not to mention the outright racist thing she says e.g. "I can't tell the aliens from the animals"
That is actually a glitched phrase, meant to be said strictly around Keepers.
As for her 'comparing' other species to dogs... she doesnt... She's comparing OUR species to a dog that the COUNCIL races might sic on 'the bear' if in trouble. Saying in essence that the Council species hold members of their own species above us. You really have to actually LISTEN to what she's saying to get the whole picture, and if you dont... Then you really shouldnt even be posting on this forum as you obviously are not nearly knowledgable enough in what Ashley says to give an actual INFORMED opinion.
jamesp81 wrote... Interesting point of fact related to the Cerberus/Pope thing. The modern Catholic church has already declared that they think aliens may exist. It's religious doctrine now if you're a catholic.
Now, being a baptist myself, it doesn't apply to me. But I kind of have a gut feeling that alien life of some kind does exist. I obviously have no concrete proof that it does, though. Just a gut feeling
I remember hearing about that to and am pretty glad how they are kind of trying to be prepared for the possible discovery of alien life.
Seriously, her prejudice about other races + the fact that she killed Wrex without your permission while speaking with him; made me to save Kaiden over her
I'm just tired of people trying to justify Ash possible racisms by "Ash shooting Wrex so she must hate aliens" example. Because that's not really what happens in that scene. What happens is something really integral to ME world. Choice, Choices as Shep, when you play the game.
It's not like Ashley would automatically decide to kill Wrex, when she thought it would be best solution. You have choice as Shep to actually tell to Ash that she should be ready..... just in case. (1) So now you have, as Shep, give a reason for Ash to be ready and even persmission to act, if something would go wrong. That would make it following orders, if Ash would later kill Wrex.
Then when it will finally come to that that Wrex would die(after you decided not to use either Charm/intimidate or doing Wrex armor searching mission) , you can still as player choose how Wrex die. You could give a signal for Ashley to actually shoot Wrex and then thanking her for doing it. (2) Or you can shoot Wrex by yourself, so Ash doesn't need to do it.(3) Or you can reprimand Ash after she had do it.(4) But it's still your choice as a player. And even when Ash does kill Wrex, she does it either because Shep had asked her to prepare for the possibility or that she thought that Wrex were going to hurt Shep, which makes it defending your commanding officer from threat. And yes, while the latter might be miscalculation from Ash's part her intension were to protect her commander, not to kill Wrex, because she is racist and that she hates aliens.
No, I would say that this whole situation is just attempt to find example of that Ashley's racist tendencies. People are just trying to find justification for their views for Ash being racist and Virmire and Wrex death would be perfect example for that, except it's not. After all what makes Ash killing Wrex sign of prejudice or racisms. Killing alien? If so, is your Shep racist or prejudiced against aliens if he/she decides to shoot Wrex by him/herself? I think you won't see him/her as racist. So, why people see Ash as that way?
So really, Ash killing Wrex doesn't say anything about Ashley's possible racism. It doesn't make Ash racist. Ash doesn't need to kill Wrex. If she would always kill Wrex right away without chance for you to as player to choose they way how he dies, then there could be a example of racisms there. But not with how things are now in the game.
Seriously, her prejudice about other races + the fact that she killed Wrex without your permission while speaking with him; made me to save Kaiden over her
I'm just tired of people trying to justify Ash possible racisms by "Ash shooting Wrex so she must hate aliens" example. Because that's not really what happens in that scene. What happens is something really integral to ME world. Choice, Choices as Shep, when you play the game.
It's not like Ashley would automatically decide to kill Wrex, when she thought it would be best solution. You have choice as Shep to actually tell to Ash that she should be ready..... just in case. (1) So now you have, as Shep, give a reason for Ash to be ready and even persmission to act, if something would go wrong. That would make it following orders, if Ash would later kill Wrex.
Then when it will finally come to that that Wrex would die(after you decided not to use either Charm/intimidate or doing Wrex armor searching mission) , you can still as player choose how Wrex die. You could give a signal for Ashley to actually shoot Wrex and then thanking her for doing it. (2) Or you can shoot Wrex by yourself, so Ash doesn't need to do it.(3) Or you can reprimand Ash after she had do it.(4) But it's still your choice as a player. And even when Ash does kill Wrex, she does it either because Shep had asked her to prepare for the possibility or that she thought that Wrex were going to hurt Shep, which makes it defending your commanding officer from threat. And yes, while the latter might be miscalculation from Ash's part her intension were to protect her commander, not to kill Wrex, because she is racist and that she hates aliens.
No, I would say that this whole situation is just attempt to find example of that Ashley's racist tendencies. People are just trying to find justification for their views for Ash being racist and Virmire and Wrex death would be perfect example for that, except it's not. After all what makes Ash killing Wrex sign of prejudice or racisms. Killing alien? If so, is your Shep racist or prejudiced against aliens if he/she decides to shoot Wrex by him/herself? I think you won't see him/her as racist. So, why people see Ash as that way?
So really, Ash killing Wrex doesn't say anything about Ashley's possible racism. It doesn't make Ash racist. Ash doesn't need to kill Wrex. If she would always kill Wrex right away without chance for you to as player to choose they way how he dies, then there could be a example of racisms there. But not with how things are now in the game.
Finally! Someone else who sees what I do! Ash wont kill Wrex unless you as the player tell her to be ready to do so... Ergo, in the end, it's your fault if she does.
Ash was protecting Shepard like cops protect one another when a weapon and a crazed felon is involved if said felon is pointing a gun at anyone of the cops the one who the gun is directly pointed at may not fire though his friends surly will. Shep was too slow to shoot Ash did it for him. She saved his life from an enraged Krogan.
I've found more racist and bigotied aliens throughout 3 then Ash is to anyone. A true racist is the Omega bartender who poisons shep because he is human. A bigot is the Turian screaming outside the Citadel that all humans are racist because customs won't allow his blade to go onto the ship but they do try to ask if he'd like to put it in cargo.
Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 30 juin 2011 - 04:00 .
Jacob - bland Kaidan - gopdie 2 shoes Miranda - **** Jackeline - crazy **** Ashley - racist ****
You can call people any kind of label you want. Racist, bigot, whatever... Show me ACTUAL proof that Ashley is a Racist (And I mean REAL substantial proof that she says something that actually stems from DIRECT hatred of an alien species) and I'll concede.. however, being a very big Mass Effect fan, I know you cant, as I've spoken with Ashley up and down and left and right... Nothing she says stems from actual hatred of another species, merely concern over security or how the Council treats humanity.
"Look. If you're fighting a bear and the only way for you to survive is to sic you're dog on it and run, you'll do it. As much as you love you're dog, it isn't human."-Ash
I think that was the line that convinced people she's racist. Tecnically she isn't racist, she's species-ist/alien-ist.
I don't hate Ash, i think she's pretty cool...but that does kind of bother me. I love all of the alien races and view them as people not 'aliens'...umm if that makes sense......
Modifié par SamTheSalarian, 30 juin 2011 - 04:37 .
Look. If Zombies attacked and the only way for you to survive was to trip your neighbor and run, you'd do it. As much as you like your neighbor he's not your family. (joke)
Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 30 juin 2011 - 04:40 .
You can call people any kind of label you want. Racist, bigot, whatever... Show me ACTUAL proof that Ashley is a Racist (And I mean REAL substantial proof that she says something that actually stems from DIRECT hatred of an alien species) and I'll concede.. however, being a very big Mass Effect fan, I know you cant, as I've spoken with Ashley up and down and left and right... Nothing she says stems from actual hatred of another species, merely concern over security or how the Council treats humanity.
Obviously you are not.... but I am.
ME1: When Ashley is talking about the dog and the bear and how the Council would let humanity die, from her logic, she'd do the same if the dog was an alien. It written between words. From her logic, she believes that metaphor, so she'd do the same if the situation was reversed.
For Ash, if it ain't human, it ain't worth the dirt it walks on. If that isn't racist, I don't know what is.
"Look. If you're fighting a bear and the only way for you to survive is to sic you're dog on it and run, you'll do it. As much as you love you're dog, it isn't human."
Tecnically she isn't racist, she's "species-ist"/"alien-ist".
I don't hate Ash, i think she's pretty cool...but that does kind of bother me. I love all of the alien races and view them as peoplem not 'aliens'.
Just to point out: in that analogy, "you" are the Council races and the dog is humanity (I wonder if any Reapers are shaped like bears?). She's convinced that if a threat came along that threatened everyone the races will look to themselves first and think about others later.
Think of it this way, This is exactly the situation Shepard was in with the Destiny Ascension. Leave the Ascension (the dog) to face the geth fleet (the bear) alone? Or risk human lives to save it?
"Look, if you're fighting a bear and the only way for you to survive is to sic your dog on it and run, you'll do it. As much as you love your dog, it isn't human. It's not racism. Not really. Members of their species will always be more important to them than humans are." -Ash
This is the WHOLE quote... People only focus on the first part. Ash's view point is cynical and untrusting of other species, not racist.
You can call people any kind of label you want. Racist, bigot, whatever... Show me ACTUAL proof that Ashley is a Racist (And I mean REAL substantial proof that she says something that actually stems from DIRECT hatred of an alien species) and I'll concede.. however, being a very big Mass Effect fan, I know you cant, as I've spoken with Ashley up and down and left and right... Nothing she says stems from actual hatred of another species, merely concern over security or how the Council treats humanity.
Obviously you are not.... but I am.
ME1: When Ashley is talking about the dog and the bear and how the Council would let humanity die, from her logic, she'd do the same if the dog was an alien. It written between words. From her logic, she believes that metaphor, so she'd do the same if the situation was reversed.
For Ash, if it ain't human, it ain't worth the dirt it walks on. If that isn't racist, I don't know what is.
At what point does she say that she'd do the same?? If this were true she wouldnt even talk to the alien members of your crew, much less fight side-by-side with them, and (judging by all the conversations in elevators AND her trying to convince you to save the council at the end of the game [which no one EVER mentions...]) she can not be labeled as a racist. A true racist would not perform any of these actions and thus your statements are inaccurate.
At what point does she say that she'd do the same?? If this were true she wouldnt even talk to the alien members of your crew, much less fight side-by-side with them, and (judging by all the conversations in elevators AND her trying to convince you to save the council at the end of the game [which no one EVER mentions...]) she can not be labeled as a racist. A true racist would not perform any of these actions and thus your statements are inaccurate.
I forgot it's the internetz and reason is worthless here. In these types of conversations, the last one to talk is always right and I don't have the time right now. I made my point.
Furthermore, the endgame comments on the Destiny Ascension are always contrary to the choice you make and before the choice one member will be against it or promote it, and who says what is determined by who you pair who with.
I find it odd that people cite Ashely killing Wrex as a sign of racism. Go to any military base, point a gun at a commanding officer, and see how long it takes for someone to shoot you.
At what point does she say that she'd do the same?? If this were true she wouldnt even talk to the alien members of your crew, much less fight side-by-side with them, and (judging by all the conversations in elevators AND her trying to convince you to save the council at the end of the game [which no one EVER mentions...]) she can not be labeled as a racist. A true racist would not perform any of these actions and thus your statements are inaccurate.
I forgot it's the internetz and reason is worthless here. In these types of conversations, the last one to talk is always right and I don't have the time right now. I made my point.
Furthermore, the endgame comments on the Destiny Ascension are always contrary to the choice you make and before the choice one member will be against it or promote it, and who says what is determined by who you pair who with.
Inaccurate? No, you are the inaccurate one.
Yes, one will always be for and one against, but if you cycle through each and every team member, which I have, on various playthroughs, Ash is ALWAYS the one to be PRO saving the Destiny Acension. ALWAYS. And so my point is validated. Stop simply labeling someone a 'racist' because you THINK she said one thing when she meant something entirely different. This is the problem with our modern society. Everyone is too darn sensitive.
Yes, one will always be for and one against, but if you cycle through each and every team member, which I have, on various playthroughs, Ash is ALWAYS the one to be PRO saving the Destiny Acension. ALWAYS. And so my point is validated. Stop simply labeling someone a 'racist' because you THINK she said one thing when she meant something entirely different. This is the problem with our modern society. Everyone is too darn sensitive.
Not wanting to let 10,000 "aliens" doesn't instantly make you not-racist. One thing is hating them, one thing is murdering them.
Metaphor time!
A man could hate his father for abandoning him as a kid, but doesn't mean he would let him die or kill him.
Look. If Zombies attacked and the only way for you to survive was to trip your neighbor and run, you'd do it. As much as you like your neighbor he's not your family. (joke)
Good one!
iakus wrote...
Just to point out: in that analogy, "you" are the Council races and the dog is humanity (I wonder if any Reapers are shaped like bears?). She's convinced that if a threat came along that threatened everyone the races will look to themselves first and think about others later.
Think of it this way, This is exactly the situation Shepard was in with the Destiny Ascension. Leave the Ascension (the dog) to face the geth fleet (the bear) alone? Or risk human lives to save it?
WOW! You're right, looking back on it this was a great forshadowing device.
I don't think there is really a right or wrong in that situation. Because Ash does have a point. If you replace her quote with Destory Raiden's joke it makes more sense in a survivalistic way. Although it may not be the paragon route Ash is trying to do good for the galaxy.
I find it odd that people cite Ashely killing Wrex as a sign of racism. Go to any military base, point a gun at a commanding officer, and see how long it takes for someone to shoot you.
Yes, one will always be for and one against, but if you cycle through each and every team member, which I have, on various playthroughs, Ash is ALWAYS the one to be PRO saving the Destiny Acension. ALWAYS. And so my point is validated. Stop simply labeling someone a 'racist' because you THINK she said one thing when she meant something entirely different. This is the problem with our modern society. Everyone is too darn sensitive.
Not wanting to let 10,000 "aliens" doesn't instantly make you not-racist. One thing is hating them, one thing is murdering them.
Metaphor time!
A man could hate his father for abandoning him as a kid, but doesn't mean he would let him die or kill him.
Your point is invalid.
And yet if you actually take the time to speak with her and try and convince her that her cynical point of view is incorrect, at one point she'll say "I dont think humans have some divine mandate, if that's what you mean. I dont think we're superior."
Definition of Racism: a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various races determine cultural or individual achievment, usually involving the idea that ones own race is superior and has the right to rule over others.
Now, does what she says exactly fit the mold of racism as per the definition above (Which you are more than welcome to look up online)?? No. It does not.
Just to point out: in that analogy, "you" are the Council races and the dog is humanity (I wonder if any Reapers are shaped like bears?). She's convinced that if a threat came along that threatened everyone the races will look to themselves first and think about others later.
Think of it this way, This is exactly the situation Shepard was in with the Destiny Ascension. Leave the Ascension (the dog) to face the geth fleet (the bear) alone? Or risk human lives to save it?
WOW! You're right, looking back on it this was a great forshadowing device.
I don't think there is really a right or wrong in that situation. Because Ash does have a point. If you replace her quote with Destory Raiden's joke it makes more sense in a survivalistic way. Although it may not be the paragon route Ash is trying to do good for the galaxy.
Depends on your reasoning. I didn't let the council die because I cared for humans. I did it because the fate of the galaxy was at stake. Freaking Reapers are at the other side and the game wants me to risk it by saving 3 asswipes!? Hell no!
Yes, one will always be for and one against, but if you cycle through each and every team member, which I have, on various playthroughs, Ash is ALWAYS the one to be PRO saving the Destiny Acension. ALWAYS. And so my point is validated. Stop simply labeling someone a 'racist' because you THINK she said one thing when she meant something entirely different. This is the problem with our modern society. Everyone is too darn sensitive.
Not wanting to let 10,000 "aliens" doesn't instantly make you not-racist. One thing is hating them, one thing is murdering them.
Metaphor time!
A man could hate his father for abandoning him as a kid, but doesn't mean he would let him die or kill him.
Your point is invalid.
Or a person could mistrust his father as he has never met him, and when he does meet him, it's in a situation where they come together out of necessity. He doesn't trust him at first, but he eventually learns to get along with his father through experience.
I just flipped your metaphor around so it made sense in Ashley's case.
Just to point out: in that analogy, "you" are the Council races and the dog is humanity (I wonder if any Reapers are shaped like bears?). She's convinced that if a threat came along that threatened everyone the races will look to themselves first and think about others later.
Think of it this way, This is exactly the situation Shepard was in with the Destiny Ascension. Leave the Ascension (the dog) to face the geth fleet (the bear) alone? Or risk human lives to save it?
WOW! You're right, looking back on it this was a great forshadowing device.
I don't think there is really a right or wrong in that situation. Because Ash does have a point. If you replace her quote with Destory Raiden's joke it makes more sense in a survivalistic way. Although it may not be the paragon route Ash is trying to do good for the galaxy.
Depends on your reasoning. I didn't let the council die because I cared for humans. I did it because the fate of the galaxy was at stake. Freaking Reapers are at the other side and the game wants me to risk it by saving 3 asswipes!? Hell no!
There were over 10,000 people on that ship... And, judging from the way you speak of the council, you are honestly more racist than Ashley is, going from your own logic of the definition of racism.
Or a person could mistrust his father as he has never met him, and when he does meet him, it's in a situation where they come together out of necessity. He doesn't trust him at first, but he eventually learns to get along with his father through experience.
I just flipped your metaphor around so it made sense in Ashley's case.
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