551 réponses à ce sujet

[DoNotIngest]

@Michaelrsa

Thought I'd try that with the aforementioned lines...

Collider wrote...

Ashley said...

"Jealous? Of you? You're not even white!"
"You want to get involved with some Asian? Go ahead."

Dayum, Ashley, that's... That's rough.

[MigrantFleetCitizen]

It seems like everyone's racist against quarians, even the volus for Keelah's sake

[BluMighty]

michaelrsa wrote...

Take her line "I'm no fan of aliens"

Replace "aliens" with "blacks", "jews", "asians" or any other race and it's pretty damn racist.

Once again, this topic isn't solely about Ashley. It's about how the other characters say racist things. I recognize that she says some pretty intolerant things.

Though I must say, that line is so out of place in that scene. It's a scene where she blasts Cerberus, is disgusted at Garrus joining, and she says "I'm no fan of aliens"? 

Collider wrote...
Because Ashley makes the biggest deal about aliens in general
More than any other squad mate, she talks about aliens.

I've seen only references to that one conversation where she voices her concerns about Wrex and Garrus being allowed on the ship without any restrictions.

[Lucifer_Cheney]

XO Pressley was 10X the racist Ashley is perceived to be.

[Gavinthelocust]

MigrantFleetCitizen wrote...

It seems like everyone's racist against quarians, even the volus for Keelah's sake

It's not the Volus' fault that they're a bunch of credit chit stealing clanless scum.

[NICKjnp]

And everyone picks on the poor Vorcha.

[Youknow]

 Long story short. Ashley has a ton of focus on racial/species things. The rest of the party members do not. Heck, Jacob flat out makes a racial slur if you push for romance and then dump him in favor of someone else. The reason Ashley is constantly called out on it, is because she brings it up on more than one occasion. It's like the guy/girl that tells you about something that they dislike. Normally you don't let it bother you too much, but when it's literally an issue with about 1/4 of their conversations... You tend to remember that. 

[Raiil]

I can't speak for everyone else, but... as the offspring of an interracial marriage, some of the things Ashley says is too similar to some of the things I've heard some idiots spout for me to view her in a favourable light. YMMV, but I can't see past those things. It's a flaw, I suppose.

I think most of the galaxy are a bunch of racist bastards, though. Ashley's not special in that regard. The turian councilor, etc.

[MigrantFleetCitizen]

Gavinthelocust wrote...

MigrantFleetCitizen wrote...

It seems like everyone's racist against quarians, even the volus for Keelah's sake

It's not the Volus' fault that they're a bunch of credit chit stealing clanless scum.

Now (gasp) run along (gasp) Earth clan (gasp)

[Sand King]

michaelrsa wrote...

I gotta say Zeel, this is the first time I've ever interacted with you and already I'm loving it.

You've got the rage of Elite Midget and the opinions of Zulu. You're great, BSN has been sorely lacking a person like you around. Don't you change on me.

I agree it's been along time since BSN had some one as inane as him.

[V-rex]

[quote]mrsph wrote...

Ashley's reasons just seem really petty compared to the races with century long blood feuds you know[/quote]

It's also a very recent war that's still scarred into the memory of the human race. In addition, the human race is still a new addition to the galaxy, so the fact that only thirty years prior an alien race had waged war with them might give reason for someone who has only JUST started working with aliens to be a little unwilling to be trusting.

Especially if said someone was the Granddaughter of the general who surrendered there and has had to carry the stigma of that her whole life.

I think it's proportionate. She isn't trying to flat out got to WAR with alien races, or kill them flat out for looking at her, or try to convince humans to rise up to rule. She's just hesitant about trusting them, which seems fair given the reasoning behind it.

[quote]Collider wrote...

"Jealous? Of you? You're not even our species!"
"You want to get involved with some alien? Go ahead."[/quote][/quote]

Ashley ALSO said:

"I actually feel kind of sorry for her, no one should have to feel like they aren't good enough to get what they want."

Shepard:
"Just a moment ago you were wanting to break her neck!"

Ashley:
"Maybe it was your neck but still..."

Also:
"If you haven't talked to Doctor T'soni you probably should, she just lost her mum... that's gotta hurt."

[quote]slydfoxxy wrote...

Because she isn't even open minded
about it at all and seems disgusted by them, sure she was in a team with
them but if she had the choice she wouldn't have been.[/quote]

So that's why she happily volunteers to assist the Salarian team on Virmire and works well with them? Comfortable alongside them and taking orders from Kirrahe despite being the only human on the team?


[quote]Collider wrote...

Because Ashley makes the biggest deal about aliens in general
More than any other squad mate, she talks about aliens.
[/quote]

She mentions aliens TWICE out of a potential NINE conversations. The second one of which is the one where you have the option to convince her to change her views.

[quote]michaelrsa wrote...

Take her line "I'm no fan of aliens"

Replace "aliens" with "blacks", "jews", "asians" or any other race and it's pretty damn racist.[/quote]

I've always seen it more as a nationalist thing. Like how someone might say 'I'm no fan of North Korea'. As in, Ashley distrusts Aliens on a political level and hence that's the source of her issues.
Similarly why she adds that Cerberus are extremists and she'd never work for them, even though she has issues with aliens on a political basis, Ashley would never join a group with a reputation of being radicalists.

[quote]King Zeel wrote...

[quote]V-rex wrote...

Short-form: Get over it, alien fans.[/quote]

Yeah.

[/quote]

No, that wasn't what I said at all!

Modifié par V-rex, 26 juin 2011 - 04:38 .

[Seboist]

Ashley was completely right about being suspicious about an alien racial caste clique (the council) and about letting a thug mercenary krogan and a hot headed turian ex-cop run amok on the Normandy unsupervised.

[PMC65]

V-rex wrote...

I really don't think Ashley is nearly as bad as people say she is. In fact, compared to the way other people in the game react to other races, Ashley might as well be a member of the progressive movement.

That said, every now and then people will point out that say, Mordin has some offensive views about the Krogan, or that Tali is a Geth hating nut job or how Grunt is one slur away from being a hate crime committer.... but these pop up much less often and without the degree of irrational anger people give to Ashley.
Maybe it's because Ashley is a human, and hence her prejudice feels more real because while two fictional races lashing out against each other isn't a big deal, if a human does it, it can be connected to real world racism.

But all the same, I don't get why Ashley deserves the label 'Space N*zi' or to be labelled as 'scum'. Considering the two worst things she's ever done is voice concern about Foreign Nationals having access to the vital systems of the Normandy, and shooting Wrex when he was pretty blatantly about to shoot Shepard.

Most of the other stuff people accuse her of is either based on a total misunderstanding of what she was talking about (bear-dog analogy) or based on a line that was glitched and only ever meant to be triggered when near a Keeper (can't tell aliens from animals) or just basic projection onto her character. The same way people assume that because she's religious she must be Christian even though she makes no reference to Jesus or the Bible or anything to give off that kind of hint.

Considering the plethora of other things Ashley says and does to counter the notion that she's racist, happily volunteering to assist the Salarians on Virmire, opposing Terra Firma, hoping for improved relations with humans and Quarians, showing sympathy to Liara losing her mother and stating very plainly that she doesn't think humans are superior... it irks me that she gets insulted as being 'racist'. More so when I see other characters who have it far worse getting away with it.

But like I said, I imagine it could just be different to see two fictional races hate each other then it would to see a human do it. But then that's just a thought.

Considering that this is well thought out, mature and fact-based .. it will be ignored by most. 

I for one, tip my hat to your response!

[BluMighty]

Youknow wrote...

 Long story short. Ashley has a ton of focus on racial/species things. The rest of the party members do not. Heck, Jacob flat out makes a racial slur if you push for romance and then dump him in favor of someone else. The reason Ashley is constantly called out on it, is because she brings it up on more than one occasion. It's like the guy/girl that tells you about something that they dislike. Normally you don't let it bother you too much, but when it's literally an issue with about 1/4 of their conversations... You tend to remember that.

But as you can see in my original post, Garrus does it on more than one occassion, as does Mordin. You could probably say the same about Liara.

I just think it's funny how people make such a big deal about Ashley making intolerant comments, but seem to gloss over the fact that a lot of your crewmembers say really insensitive things. More than once. 

I don't want people to think I'm trying to defend Ashley...I'm not going to argue about this for the rest of the thread. She was never my LI in the games, and I really only let her live because she talked to me more than Kaidan.

[BluMighty]

mrsph wrote...

Garrus is a cuttlebone.

Valentia X wrote...

I can't speak for everyone else,
but... as the offspring of an interracial marriage, some of the things
Ashley says is too similar to some of the things I've heard some idiots
spout for me to view her in a favourable light. YMMV, but I can't see
past those things. It's a flaw, I suppose.
 

And this. I've heard the arguments Ashley makes way too often. Some of the stuff she says does legitimately make me uncomfortable.

You know, you could warp what Garrus says in those videos in the original post into something more relatable.

"Well _____, I hope you and the rest of the German people are feeling miserable over what you did with World War 2."

"You know, _______, I was raised to believe that (Enter group of people here) are horrible scum bags. But you seem different. That surprised me."

[DoNotIngest]

Pssst. V-rex.


I read your posts. That's at least two hits, better than nothing, huh?

[S.A.K]

Lot of people seem to think Ashly is rasist and I don't blame them. And her comment on Horizen didn't help much either. But I didn't get her killed in ME1 and I am willing to give her another chance. Maybe she will be better in ME3 but if she is not, I am so giving her the Virmire treatment!

[Collider]

Garrus is a cuttlebone.

Cuddlebone

[Youknow]

Seboist wrote...

Ashley was completely right about being suspicious about an alien racial caste clique (the council) and about letting a thug mercenary krogan and a hot headed turian ex-cop run amok on the Normandy unsupervised.

However, she doesn't say: "Sheperd, are you sure we should be letting thugs and ex-cops on the ship? Neither of them have military experience." Which is exactly why there are dialogue options to reflec that. It's literally not concern for their past occupations. It extends from their species. And it really does get old. Especially IRL where you might hate your own skin complexion for Ashley-like comments.