If other people believe her to be one, that won't ruin my day. I merely wish to interject and state that I disagree.Modifié par Zeratul20, 30 juin 2011 - 11:38 .
ThePwener wrote...
Pressly ended up liking aliens though.... so no racism. Ash still doesn't like aliens.... still racist.
Modifié par Garrison2009, 30 juin 2011 - 11:57 .
Kyrene wrote...
Garrison2009, this argument has always and will always go around in circles. This being BSN, people just don't want to see the truth, even if a developer tells/shows them it's right there. Take a break from this mate, the trolls are beating you with experience.
tykfa1990 wrote...
Racism? Where? When Tali comments humans? When any other alien species tell sentences alike "Unlike you humans..." you think it is already racism? Gentlemen behold!
By the way, Ashley IS racist. She is intended to be like this. Just like Pressly was. The game was invented so humans entered the galactic society not long ago. And it was a move to show how real humans react to new things. Nothing new I would say.
tykfa1990 wrote...
Racism? Where? When Tali comments humans? When any other alien species tell sentences alike "Unlike you humans..." you think it is already racism? Gentlemen behold!
By the way, Ashley IS racist. She is intended to be like this. Just like Pressly was. The game was invented so humans entered the galactic society not long ago. And it was a move to show how real humans react to new things. Nothing new I would say.
tykfa1990 wrote...
Racism? Where? When Tali comments humans? When any other alien species tell sentences alike "Unlike you humans..." you think it is already racism? Gentlemen behold!
By the way, Ashley IS racist. She is intended to be like this. Just like Pressly was. The game was invented so humans entered the galactic society not long ago. And it was a move to show how real humans react to new things. Nothing new I would say.
Chris L'Etoile wrote...
I find it interesting that so many people have stereotyped
her as "the racist." At a couple of points she blasts the Terra Firma
party as being "bigots," and she openly admires the power of the Destiny
Ascension in the Citadel approach cutscene - not quite what you'd
expect from a xenophobe.
In her first conversation she spells out
her thinking pretty explicitly (the bear and dog metaphor), and it's
nothing more than a short paraphrase of the most memorable passage in
Charles Pelligrino and George Zebrowski's novel "The Killing Star":When
we put our heads together and tried to list everything we could say
with certainty about other civilizations, without having actually met
them, all that we knew boiled down to three simple laws of alien
behavior:
1. THEIR SURVIVAL WILL BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN OUR SURVIVAL.
If
an alien species has to choose between them and us, they won't choose
us. It is difficult to imagine a contrary case; species don't survive by
being self-sacrificing.
2. WIMPS DON'T BECOME TOP DOGS.
No
species makes it to the top by being passive. The species in charge of
any given planet will be highly intelligent, alert, aggressive, and
ruthless when necessary.
3. THEY WILL ASSUME THAT THE FIRST TWO LAWS APPLY TO US.
And
it's hard to dispute this. At the least, you could say the krogan live
by these rules. It's certainly a more suspicious and pessimistic point
of view than most of us are comfortable with. But is it racism, or realism?
Anyway.
I fully expected some people write her off as a bigot. What surprises
me is that no one's pointed out that her position does have some sense.
Evidently, I did something very wrong here.
To answer a question from... I don't know, tens of pages ago, if you romance her and have persuade, you can convince her to be a bit less extreme in her opinions.
But she ended up one anyway?TobiTobsen wrote...
Ash's writer himself said that Ashley isn't meant to be a racist.
S.A.K wrote...
But she ended up one anyway?TobiTobsen wrote...
Ash's writer himself said that Ashley isn't meant to be a racist.
jk
. But the discussion is going in circles since ME1. The Ash fans will say no, the Ash haters will say yes and everbody in between isn't interested in the debate in the first place.
Modifié par TobiTobsen, 30 juin 2011 - 06:53 .
tykfa1990 wrote...
Racism? Where? When Tali comments humans? When any other alien species tell sentences alike "Unlike you humans..." you think it is already racism? Gentlemen behold!
By the way, Ashley IS racist. She is intended to be like this. Just like Pressly was. The game was invented so humans entered the galactic society not long ago. And it was a move to show how real humans react to new things. Nothing new I would say.
Garrison2009 wrote...
Honestly I think the only reason people stereotype her as a supposed racist is because she is the only team member that actually says the word Racism. Thus people say "OMG, she said Racism. Yeah, she's totally a racist." It's a very misunderstood and unintelligent way of looking at it.
tykfa1990 wrote...
By the way, Ashley IS racist. She is intended to be like this. Just like Pressly was. The game was invented so humans entered the galactic society not long ago. And it was a move to show how real humans react to new things. Nothing new I would say.
Yes, this.iakus: Everything Ashley thinks about aliens she thinks about humans too. Everybody's looking out for #1. No one can be fully trusted. Given her family history, it's understandable.
jamesp81 wrote...
Eire Icon wrote...
Kyrene wrote...
And that just shows her ignorance. Tali is potentially a bigger security threat than the other two combined IMO.Eire Icon wrote...
She questions giving Wrex and Garrus access to the Normandys systems, not having them on board. That is a legitimate and understandable objection given that the Normandy is a state of the art Alliance Ship. Notice she dosen;t mention Tali as she dosen't pocess the same potential security threat
Look, I agree with you as to her true motives. I still contend that she comes accross as racist, even if she clearly isn't. And only a paragon (and charming one at that) Shep can make her see it.
Why would you consider Tali a greater security risk? The Alliance could wipe out the migrant fleet in a heartbeat
Quarians live a hand to mouth existence and they have to scramble to make ends meet. It would not be a stretch to think Tali might sell information on the construction of the Normandy to raise funds for the Migrant Fleet.
So I do kind of think Ashley was worried about the wrong ones. Turians helped design the Normandy and Wrex is just interested in "fighting for credits". But I agree with her premise and it's her duty to inform her CO of potential issues before they become actual issues.
This doesn't make Ashley ignorant or racist. She merely made a mistake, IMO, in her threat assessment. Coming at the situation from a standpoint of not knowing any of the alien squadmates personally, I would be more uncomfortable with Liara and Tali, especially Tali.
PrimalEden wrote...
Not really sure if I'd call Ashley racist, but I definitely see some moments where she's snarky towards other alien teammates. When she makes snide comments about Liara's personal life, asking who put Liara in charge when Liara's making a suggestion while all the other teammates are sitting quietly without complaint makes me raise an eyebrow. She keeps it under control well enough and that's not surprising as that attitude could interfere with her career, but her being rude to an alien that had nothing to do with her grandfather's fall is going a bit far.
It's understandable that she would be suspicious of the Council looking more for themselves than the Alliance. It's perfectly normal to worry about a rival species having access to the Normandy. And it's forgiveable to have hard feelings towards turians that played a role in your family's disgrace. What's not acceptable is when it carries towards other species and people that did no wrong against you personally and Ashley's bias spreads a little further than it should. If she was no fan of Turians that would be one thing. No fan of aliens in general worries me without justifiable reason. In ME1, she's the only teammate that raises any complaints against other teammates and is the only human to murder Wrex. If Kaiden did that for a female Shepard (and I wonder why he didn't) then her actions against Wrex would weigh less against her.
ashlover mark 2 wrote...
*air qotes* AH YES!! Ashley williams is a racist,the oppion of ash haters who obviously misunderstand her charecter,Pffft ash fans and supporters have dissmised that claim.
here we go again..............
1. Ash is not a racist. Never once in the entire game dose ash say she dose not like aliens because they are aliens. She may find them weird looking and odd but that's because before Eden Prime and meeting Shepard she had never seen or meet any.
on Virmire Ash does not kill Wrex because he's a Krogan and she doesn't like him,ash kills Wrex because he is a tank with a shotgun pointed at her commander (and possible boy friend) not to mention Shepard tells ash "be ready" which pretty much says to me "hey watch my back if i get into trouble with this guy help me out".
I'd say a pissed off Krogan battlemaster firing shotgun blasts into the water,is pretty damn dangerous.
not to mention during that same mission if you send Williams with the Salarian STG team ash clearly says that she is uncomfortable working under someone else command and that she has gotten used to working with Shepard and his team including the aliens.
On board the Normandy when ash tells Shepard that she doesn't think that Garrus and Wrex should be allowed into vital and restricted systems, isn't out of racism its because she doesn't KNOW these people. Shepard lets random people who he/she literary picked up off the street onto the most advanced warship in the galaxy and lets them poke around where ever they like. She doesn't know if she can trust these people not to run off and betray their trust in any number of ways,shes only known them for like 3 days maybe more.in the end all she did was voice a concern about a possible security risk and BLATANT security breach.
2. Now onto xenophobia, Ash dose NOT HAVE A IRRATIONAL FEAR OF ALIENS! she is not afraid that humanity will lose itself by integrating into the council nor dose she say that humanity should go it alone and screw the rest of the alien races,nor dose she believe that humans are superior.
Ash has a cynical view that a lot people tend to have even in today's society. She believes that the Council will always do whats best for itself and if the Alliance ever needs there help in a dire situation the Council will not come to the rescue. That's not a racist view or a xenophobic view its the view of a patriotic soldier who wants whats best for her people. It's not as if the the Council and the Alliance were buddy buddy anyway they had numerous issues with one another at any moment a war could have broken out over any number of things.
Her dog and the bear analogy simply says that if the Council is the owner humanity is the dog and a great threat against the galaxy is the Bear. The owner in a bid to survive will let the dog loose to fight the bear while they run away from danger. Not because of racism but because humanity is not their own. It is not racism to care about your own people over others. It's not as if the Council doesn't have a history of doing this in the first place they used the Krogan to wipe out the Rachni they used the Turians to decimate the Krogan and when the Geth invaded the Attican Zraverse they used the Alliance to shield them from the Geth.
In short you want a true and clear view at racism and xenophobia i suggest you read Mass effect retribution and pay attention to Kai Leng he is are obviously afraid of alien cultures and influences and has a great distaste for aliens.ash shares nothing in common with him.
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