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Why is Ashley considered racist, but not the other party members?


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#51
DoNotIngest

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S.A.K wrote...

Lot of people seem to think Ashly is rasist and I don't blame them. And her comment on Horizen didn't help much either. But I didn't get her killed in ME1 and I am willing to give her another chance. Maybe she will be better in ME3 but if she is not, I am so giving her the Virmire treatment!



It's not really "getting her killed". I just wasn't as fond of her as the rest of the squad, and when it came down to her or Kaidan, I felt bad for the poor guy. Likes a girl, she gets her arm broken, he accidentally kills the guy who did it, never sees her again, and has bad memories and worse headaches the rest of his life. Plus he had a bomb.

#52
King Zeel

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I also read your post v-rex and while I think you bring up good points. I dont think it's nearly as intricate as you make it sound. Your argument would apply if we were dealing with the sane side of Bioware fans, but we aren't. The type of people who attack Ashley, don't need a logical reason to do it. They only need their LI as some sort of buffer for their argument.

I don't know why you guys are wasting time trying to rationalize how these girls think. It's exactly as I put it; they need a method to validate their game relationship, so they go on the offensive.

it's the same thing with the s/s relationships, its not enough to just get a new character, they have to have all of them

#53
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Collider wrote...


Garrus is a cuttlebone.

Cuddlebone



You would, wouldn't you?



Now have Stalker Tali like in the Jacob/Keeper Romance and Sad Illusive Man watch from either side of the bed, and I'll spit my drink to you once again.

#54
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King Zeel wrote...

I also read your post v-rex and while I think you bring up good points. I dont think it's nearly as intricate as you make it sound. Your argument would apply if we were dealing with the sane side of Bioware fans, but we aren't. The type of people who attack Ashley, don't need a logical reason to do it. They only need their LI as some sort of buffer for their argument.

I don't know why you guys are wasting time trying to rationalize how these girls think. It's exactly as I put it; they need a method to validate their game relationship, so they go on the offensive.

it's the same thing with the s/s relationships, its not enough to just get a new character, they have to have all of them


Elite Midget, is that you?

#55
Sand King

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King Zeel wrote...

I also read your post v-rex and while I think you bring up good points. I dont think it's nearly as intricate as you make it sound. Your argument would apply if we were dealing with the sane side of Bioware fans, but we aren't. The type of people who attack Ashley, don't need a logical reason to do it. They only need their LI as some sort of buffer for their argument.

I don't know why you guys are wasting time trying to rationalize how these girls think. It's exactly as I put it; they need a method to validate their game relationship, so they go on the offensive.

it's the same thing with the s/s relationships, its not enough to just get a new character, they have to have all of them

Image IPB

#56
Raiil

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BluMighty wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Garrus is a cuttlebone.

Valentia X wrote...

I can't speak for everyone else,
but... as the offspring of an interracial marriage, some of the things
Ashley says is too similar to some of the things I've heard some idiots
spout for me to view her in a favourable light. YMMV, but I can't see
past those things. It's a flaw, I suppose.
 


And this. I've heard the arguments Ashley makes way too often. Some of the stuff she says does legitimately make me uncomfortable.


You know, you could warp what Garrus says in those videos in the original post into something more relatable.

"Well _____, I hope you and the rest of the German people are feeling miserable over what you did with World War 2."

"You know, _______, I was raised to believe that (Enter group of people here) are horrible scum bags. But you seem different. That surprised me."


I could. But it's not a focus of their character. Ashley's latent distrust- whether you think it's justified or not, I won't say who is right or wrong- of aliens is a part of her. After the clusterf--k of bad press her dad or granddad went through for surrendering, it's something that's at least somewhat ingrained. She focuses on it enough that people picked up on it more.

I find the vast majority of characters, if not racist, then more focused and partial to their own race and culture. The people you pick up tend to be somewhat different- Thane's concern for the human innocents, Samara has a distinct fondness for humans and their culture- but even then, their concern, largely, for humans is through either the collector threat or out of personal loyalty to Shepard instead of 'innocents are disappearing, we must do something!'

It's like a window into today's society. I don't see much difference.

#57
Seboist

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Youknow wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Ashley was completely right about being suspicious about an alien racial caste clique (the council) and about letting a thug mercenary krogan and a hot headed turian ex-cop run amok on the Normandy unsupervised.


However, she doesn't say: "Sheperd, are you sure we should be letting thugs and ex-cops on the ship? Neither of them have military experience." Which is exactly why there are dialogue options to reflec that. It's literally not concern for their past occupations. It extends from their species. And it really does get old. Especially IRL where you might hate your own skin complexion for Ashley-like comments. 



In the Mass Effect world species = nation. There's no Systems Alliance ambassador but a human ambassador and so on and so forth. Based on that none of what Ashley says is bigoted.

#58
BluMighty

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V-rex wrote...
She mentions aliens TWICE out of a potential NINE conversations. The second one of which is the one where you have the option to convince her to change her views.


Does anyone have a video of this? Not that I don't believe V-rex, it's just that I never seen this scene before...I guess it's because I didn't romanced Ashley.

#59
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Which is weird, because the Council booted out a long established alien race to appease the humans.

Not to mention giving humanity ludicrous power in only 30 years.

Modifié par mrsph, 26 juin 2011 - 04:42 .


#60
King Zeel

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Okay. I'm going to bite. WHO IS THIS ELITE MIDGET/ ZULU/Extreme ONE?

I thought they were insults but apparently they are members..

Modifié par King Zeel, 26 juin 2011 - 04:43 .


#61
Raiil

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King Zeel wrote...

Okay. I'm going to bite. WHO IS THIS ELITE MIDGET/ ZULU?


Old trolls, dear. You stand on the shoulders of greater men.

#62
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King Zeel wrote...

Okay. I'm going to bite. WHO IS THIS ELITE MIDGET/ ZULU?

Two posters on who used to be on BW. They must have died and their ghosts possessed you.

#63
Youknow

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BluMighty wrote...

Youknow wrote...

 Long story short. Ashley has a ton of focus on racial/species things. The rest of the party members do not. Heck, Jacob flat out makes a racial slur if you push for romance and then dump him in favor of someone else. The reason Ashley is constantly called out on it, is because she brings it up on more than one occasion. It's like the guy/girl that tells you about something that they dislike. Normally you don't let it bother you too much, but when it's literally an issue with about 1/4 of their conversations... You tend to remember that.


But as you can see in my original post, Garrus does it on more than one occassion, as does Mordin. You could probably say the same about Liara.

I just think it's funny how people make such a big deal about Ashley making intolerant comments, but seem to gloss over the fact that a lot of your crewmembers say really insensitive things. More than once. 

I don't want people to think I'm trying to defend Ashley...I'm not going to argue about this for the rest of the thread. She was never my LI in the games, and I really only let her live because she talked to me more than Kaidan.



And I would call them out for it as well. I don't see why they would be excused. Again, the difference here is that they don't have them in their actual conversations as often. Ashley does. 

And there's a reason that Kaidan is one of my favorite party members. He's nice, and seems far more considerate in comparison to a lot of other people. He might be a bit mundane, but I'll take a friend like that any day. 

#64
King Zeel

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:huh:

Valentia X wrote...

King Zeel wrote...

Okay. I'm going to bite. WHO IS THIS ELITE MIDGET/ ZULU?


Old trolls, dear. You stand on the shoulders of greater men.


of course. I'm not surprised, you guys would lump us into one category.


NEW RADICAL  POSTER MUST BE SAME PERSON.


Enough.

#65
Collider

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michaelrsa wrote...

King Zeel wrote...

Okay. I'm going to bite. WHO IS THIS ELITE MIDGET/ ZULU?

Two posters on who used to be on BW. They must have died and their ghosts possessed you.

S/S romance confirmed.

#66
ObserverStatus

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BluMighty wrote...

Am I the only one who noticed that while Ashley has been trashed for being "racist", other crewmates in both Mass Effect 1 and 2 make racist comments as well?

The other crewmembers may make racist remarks from time to time, but Ashley is the only one who murders Wrex.

#67
BluMighty

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Valentia X wrote...
I could. But it's not a focus of their character. Ashley's latent distrust- whether you think it's justified or not, I won't say who is right or wrong- of aliens is a part of her. After the clusterf--k of bad press her dad or granddad went through for surrendering, it's something that's at least somewhat ingrained. She focuses on it enough that people picked up on it more.

I find the vast majority of characters, if not racist, then more focused and partial to their own race and culture. The people you pick up tend to be somewhat different- Thane's concern for the human innocents, Samara has a distinct fondness for humans and their culture- but even then, their concern, largely, for humans is through either the collector threat or out of personal loyalty to Shepard instead of 'innocents are disappearing, we must do something!'

It's like a window into today's society. I don't see much difference.


Still, you chose to mention how chilling it was to hear Ashley say those things....How it hit close to home? Is not what Garrus said also somewhat familiar? I know I've heard a lot of "not-racists" say that second line.

#68
V-rex

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BluMighty wrote...

V-rex wrote...
She mentions aliens TWICE out of a potential NINE conversations. The second one of which is the one where you have the option to convince her to change her views.


Does anyone have a video of this? Not that I don't believe V-rex, it's just that I never seen this scene before...I guess it's because I didn't romanced Ashley.


It's here:



Ashley listening to Shepard and deciding to give changing her worldview a try in the process. If you do this, she'll end up being the most paragon of all teammates in the game.
Seriously, if Paragon Ash and Liara are present with the Rachni Queen Liara will advocate killing them.

Modifié par V-rex, 26 juin 2011 - 04:46 .


#69
DoNotIngest

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King Zeel wrote...

:huh:

Valentia X wrote...

King Zeel wrote...

Okay. I'm going to bite. WHO IS THIS ELITE MIDGET/ ZULU?


Old trolls, dear. You stand on the shoulders of greater men.


of course. I'm not surprised, you guys would lump us into one category.


NEW RADICAL  POSTER MUST BE SAME PERSON.


Enough.



Naw, man, you're your own man!


You know what's really going on!


I believe in you!


WE LOVE YOU KING ZEEL! *places hand on thigh*

#70
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Maybe Wrex deserved a good killing.

#71
Guest_michaelrsa_*

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King Zeel wrote...
NEW RADICAL  POSTER

Are you a member of The New Radicals?

Could you play You Get What You Give? I love that song.

Modifié par michaelrsa, 26 juin 2011 - 04:46 .


#72
Raiil

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King Zeel wrote...

:huh:

Valentia X wrote...

King Zeel wrote...

Okay. I'm going to bite. WHO IS THIS ELITE MIDGET/ ZULU?


Old trolls, dear. You stand on the shoulders of greater men.


of course. I'm not surprised, you guys would lump us into one category.


NEW RADICAL  POSTER MUST BE SAME PERSON.


Enough.


Wouldn't say radical, you're not saying anything new.

#73
Gavinthelocust

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King Zeel wrote...

I also read your post v-rex and while I think you bring up good points. I dont think it's nearly as intricate as you make it sound. Your argument would apply if we were dealing with the sane side of Bioware fans, but we aren't. The type of people who attack Ashley, don't need a logical reason to do it. They only need their LI as some sort of buffer for their argument.

I don't know why you guys are wasting time trying to rationalize how these girls think. It's exactly as I put it; they need a method to validate their game relationship, so they go on the offensive.

it's the same thing with the s/s relationships, its not enough to just get a new character, they have to have all of them


You are using the Bill O' Riley tactic there.
"Bioware fan girls want to destroy innocent characters and turn them gay because their imaginary insane love interest told them to! All they want to do is manipulate the game to their own twisted fanfic fantasy and trash characters who dared to be an optional romance so they can get off. They have no logic or lives they just want to destroy the fun of the average player!"
It's not like that, if you actually want to see the Bioware underbelly in action just bring up something good on the DA2 forums and watch the flames.

#74
NuclearBuddha

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mrsph wrote...
Which is weird, because the Council booted out a long established alien race to appease the humans.

Not to mention giving humanity ludicrous power in only 30 years.

I thought the batarians buggered off of their own accord?

#75
Raiil

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NuclearBuddha wrote...

mrsph wrote...
Which is weird, because the Council booted out a long established alien race to appease the humans.

Not to mention giving humanity ludicrous power in only 30 years.

I thought the batarians buggered off of their own accord?


Six of one, half a dozen of the other? The council sided with the humans and the batarians pulled an epic flounce, complete with hair toss.